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Monitor Fxs Not Saved In Setup


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#1 tochiro

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

Hi,

 

I noticed that the levels of the monitor FXs were not saved in the setup.  When I switch on the M20D, save the setup with the monitor FX levels close to 0 and switch off the M20D, the FX levels (Reverb, Delay, etc.) in the monitors are far too high...  How come?

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Cheers


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#2 dboomer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

sounds like you have an old version of firmware.  What is running in your unit?



#3 tochiro

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

Version 1.20
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#4 Digital-sound

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

I had this problem once too. But I figured I overlooked something (and maybe I did). But it was just the drummer's in ears. He asked why so much reverb....and we had never put reverb to his mix (not consciously). I am still leaving it at "operator error" until I can prove it's not.
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#5 scotterp

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:03 PM

I have seen the same thing happen on mine. It seems inconsistent so I didn't report until I could make sure I knew the steps to recreate it. I'm also running the latest version. I've just been double checking the effects levels in the monitors each time I setup just to make sure they aren't up too high. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Just haven't spent the time to figure out what triggers it yet.


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#6 tochiro

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:54 AM

It's very easy to recreate - Just lower the Monitor FX levels to 0 for instance, switch the M20D off, switch it on and the FXs are high again... :-(


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#7 tochiro

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:39 AM

Other users experience the same problem?
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#8 emmebbi

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:07 AM

did you save your scene and your setup after each change?
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#9 tochiro

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:27 AM

Yes.


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#10 scotterp

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:31 AM

My results have been inconsistent. As I said before, I haven't really tried to consistently recreate it. This week I turned on my mixer and when I checked, the FX were all at 0. 2 weeks ago when I turned it on, the effects were on. 

 

I also save any changes that I have made. 


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#11 Digital-sound

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:39 AM

I have never paid close enough attention, but I have noticed my effects levels change. I have just come to check them every time. But I will watch closer now. And I save every time we play. I load the previous set up/scene, and then, later during the night, I save when I am done tweaking for the night. That way, our sound in each venue is hopefully "bettering" each time we play. Mixing from stage, I just do to have the time to put in every time we play. Can't just sit out front and tweak.
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#12 gordwait

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:47 AM

I hadn't noticed yet. I'll keep an eye out for this. Sounds like a bug which we should let line6 know about so they know to look for it. 

 

You shouldn't have to explicitly save the current setup according to the manual, but I do anyway because of years of using computers in general ;)


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#13 Digital-sound

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:30 AM

Ok, now I know this happens, and seems to be random. We set up to perform yesterday afternoon. There is a house system with sound man, but old board, with only two aux sends. We use IEM's and like our own monitor mix, so I brought my m20d to use as a monitor mixer. Set up in afternoon, all good. I saved the scene, and I didn't power the board off. Came back, first set good, and second set, I hear reverb. Somehow, effects were set to all monitors and at the same level. The first two effects were both at about 50%. I had the lid on my mixer case because we all use iPads, so no one was able to access the board. Only the drummer and I were actually using our iPads and there is no way either of us accidentally set the first two effects to 50% on all the monitor mixes. I put them all back to zero, and they stayed there. I expect when I turn it on today to check, they will be at zero. I will update later. But this must be a bug. Fortunately, it is a harmless one for us. It is also unfortunate that it will be extremely difficult to fix if we can't figure out exactly what happens to cause this. I can't tell you what I did. I do go back and forth between the stagescape app and our setlist app, and I was recording too. But that's about it. I will be paying closer attention for sure.
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#14 ArneLine6

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:26 PM

We have tried to reproduce this behavior and could not get this to happen so far. Is it possible that the "FX to Monitors" are linked and during the course of events the FX levels got turned up? When the FX levels are down and the FX to Monitors are linked turning up the FX levels anywhere will bring the FX up in the monitors.
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#15 Digital-sound

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:19 PM

We have tried to reproduce this behavior and could not get this to happen so far. Is it possible that the "FX to Monitors" are linked and during the course of events the FX levels got turned up? When the FX levels are down and the FX to Monitors are linked turning up the FX levels anywhere will bring the FX up in the monitors.


I really don't think so. We were only using the monitor page of the app. And the recording page. But, it is impossible to say "didn't happen". For now, I am just going to step up my "observation" and pay very close attention to this "feature".
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#16 tochiro

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

We do hope it will be corrected in the next update.


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#17 jeanpicasso

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:45 AM

Im sad to report that I have also had some monitor-seems-to-live-its-own-life trouble.

 

I am the only one in the band operating the mixer.

 

we made our soundcheck as usual, and all was well. I saved everything and we powered down. when we came back to do the gig, the drummer complained that his monitor sounded really bad. I then saw that there suddenly was alot of FX in his monitor mix.

 

sometimes the monitor is turned all the way down when i power up the mixer. other times its where it was when i saved the setup/scene.


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#18 scotterp

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:26 AM

I have experienced similar circumstances as Jeanpicasso. I just check monitor levels and FX levels to monitors each time I power up.


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#19 tochiro

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:54 AM

Monitor settings should be saved when you save your settings but this feature is clearly partly unreliable.


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#20 ArneLine6

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:30 AM

We are further investigating this. So far we could not reproduce this. Please check the link status of the FX to monitors since it is possible to get FX in the monitors unintentionally when they are linked. The monitor output levels stay where they were when powering up and reset to zero (off) when loading a new setup. We keep testing this.
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#21 scotterp

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

I know for sure that on mine, the monitors are not linked.  I have a gig tonight and I know I will be using a different setup than I used for my last gig. I'll report back on what happens.


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#22 scotterp

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:29 AM

I started up the M20D, picked the setup that I wanted to use from the list of existing setups, and the FX settings for the monitors were set to 0. So I was not able to recreate the issue this time.


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#23 innovawmqut

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

Set up for practice tonight after the gig on Sunday. I had saved the Sunday gig settings and the Stagescape recalled those settings no problem. So this appears to be a intermittent problem. I did notice that I hadn't reloaded the effects for my pedal steel when I had to reset things on Sunday. So that explains the dry tone at the Sunday gig.

If it drops the scene setup again, at least I'll have an idea what to go fix. Hope this glitch can be fixed in the firmware.
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#24 tochiro

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:58 AM

What is Line6 waiting to correct that bug? 


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#25 Digital-sound

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:52 PM

They haven't been able to reproduce it yet. That is what I read in one of the threads. Maybe this one up higher.

I think it is a big too, but, can't fix what you can't see. I sometimes like to think there is not time as they are busy working on their new IEM system! Keeps me smiling!
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#26 Digital-sound

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:27 PM

Happened again. I didnt even reload a setup or scene. I just booted up the system and went to check the levels out of curiosity. All four monitor mixes had the exact same amount of the first two effects. Vocal reverb and room reverb. These happen to be the first two effects in the list of effects being used. I don't even use the room reverb and is always all the way down except when this "bug" decides to add it to my monitor mixes.
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#27 tochiro

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:43 PM

Many M20Ds have the same bug.


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#28 innovawmqut

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:53 PM

Went to practice again tonight. We loaded a saved setup and the monitors dropped out completely, and the trim on all of our instruments went down. We did not change channel setups at all. After practice, I turned the unit off, waited about 5 min, turned the unit on and loaded a different set up. All monitor levels went to zero, but the channel settings appeared to stay the same.

Very frustrated.
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#29 ArneLine6

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

When loading a new setup the monitor outputs are set to zero. The idea was to make sure that no unexpected feedback can not occur accidentally. In some cases it would be, of course, better if the levels would not reset.

When loading a setup the trim settings and all other settings are recalled according to the saved setup. If you use scenes (in perform mode) the input settings like trim, high pass filter etc. are not changed. If you just want different mixes for the same setup, usually the same show, you can just use scenes to prevent the trims from changing to whatever was stored.


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#30 ArneLine6

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

The FX to monitors issue is still a bit unclear. We have not yet seen a case where they randomly changed. I wonder if it really comes down to having the FX to monitor controls linked and then turning up the FX returns. If anyone has a case where any presets or levels have not been touched and the FX to monitors changed we would like to find out what is going on there. If you have a clear case please contact me with a message so we can get in touch.


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#31 innovawmqut

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:44 PM

If you save a channel strip say a guitar with reverb, and a trim input setting. Then at the end of the gig you save the setup in setup mode and call it practice. Next time you play you change the channel strip and add let's say delay. You save that channel strip with the same name. I.e. you overwrght the previous channel strip. Then end of practice you save this setup in setup mode as practice 2.

If you go back to setup practice (the first one), and load that setup, which channel strip will you get? The one with delay, or the one without delay?

I am wondering if the channel strip setup is following the the saved setup?

Thanks
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#32 tinorios

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:39 PM

Can one of you guys take a screen shot of the monitor settings in the iPad before and after the problem so that you can show it to the Line6 gurus?

 

brianj402002 came up with a way to do it in this previous thread: http://line6.com/sup...ts-to-computer/


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#33 ArneLine6

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

When you recall a setup a setup you will always get the setup as it was when you saved it. In your example you would get the first one when you load the first setup.

 

A setup contains the channel presets and specific settings that can be different from other setups or presets. Basically what you save is what will load.


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#34 innovawmqut

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

Thank you for your response. I believe this is a part of my problem. The other part was explained by an email from your tech services.

" Hello,

The way that saving works on your StageScape utilizes SETUPS and SCENES.

Your stage icons and location is saved as the SETUP, which can be viewed, edited and saved, from the SETUP mode (the setup button on the left of the touch screen).

All of your levels and sends are saved as part of the SCENES. This allows for you to have the same SETUP, but different levels, pans, sends, FX levels for different songs. To save your SCENES go to the PERFORM mode and save your scene in the top left of the touch screen.

You will want to save your SCENE FIRST, and then save your SETUP.

I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if this does not solve your problem. "



I will give this a try on Thursday when we proactive.

Thanks again for the response!
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#35 tochiro

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

That should be more simple.  And that means every time I switch the M20D on I have to recall the last opened scene.

 

What have Setups AND Scenes?  One of them is enough to call all the parameters.


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#36 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:36 PM

Definitely check that chain link icon; it defaults to on for each input when I add a new monitor. Unclicking the green link icon for each seemed to correct this issue for me. I need to read ths manual a bit closer! :-)
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#37 Digital-sound

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

I was playing around with my settings to try and replicate this problem. I seemed to be able to do it now, and I sent a long winded message to Arne and he said he would see if he could. I am away now, but will try this again when I am back at my board in a few days.

First and most important, is the " set up" and "scene" differences. FX can be saved in a setup, and in a scene. I really don't like this. I think set up should be limited to inputs, and trim....that kind of stuff. FX and EQ should be in the scene....but everyone is different and I can easily make do. Anyway, I discovered that my usual "set up" and my usual "scene" had FX levels at different settings. And it turned out my "set up" had FX on the monitors. Some of my confusion may have been if I just loaded the "set up" and looked at monitor FX, they were there. Loading the a"scene" of course, removed them. I generally play with only one band, so the set up is the same, and the scene rarely changes much either.

So I messed around and saved a scene and a set up, being extra careful that there was no FX on the monitor mixes (and unlinked). I had been doing this from my ipad. I was not satisfied that this "set up" and "scene" confusion was my problem. When this problem happens to me, the FX level is at the EXACT same level on all monitor sends. And when I have used FX on monitor sends, it is NEVER all the EXACT same level to each monitor. And with this problem, it is only the first two FX on the board. I have left all the default FX on the board. So the first two are both reverbs. I have not used the room reverb at all, so absolutely no reason this should be on anything, much less the monitors.

So, I went to my board, powered it off, waited a couple minutes, and turned it on. I pressed the monitor hardware button, then pressed the "FX to monitor button and Aha! There it was. The EXACT same level of FX on each monitor mix. So, I loaded my set up....no FX on monitor, and then I loaded my scene....no FX on monitor. Waited about 30seconds. Powered board off....powered board on, and there they were again! FX to monitors at the EXACT same levels again.

The way I will try this again...and I will video it....will be like this:

Turn board on. Load set up (double check FX to monitors are off) and press save. Load scene, (again double check FX to monitors are off), and press save, then, wait about 30seconds and power off. Power on, and see.

Hopefully Arne has tried this now, and hopefully has seen it. But maybe some others can try it too. If it doesn't happen, and you are sure it has before, try again another day. I did it about 3 times in a row. Maybe I'm just a crazy Canuck!
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#38 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:28 PM

I should read the manual, but being near the end of the gig, thats not possible at the moment.. but what are the distinctions between a scene and a setup?
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#39 Digital-sound

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:33 PM

I should read the manual, but being near the end of the gig, thats not possible at the moment.. but what are the distinctions between a scene and a setup?

To me, there is not much that distinguishes the set up from the scene. The idea is, the set up is what you would use for a group, or act.
For example, I have a set up I use for my band. We have two guitar players we alternate between. One sings, one doesn't. I have a set up that I use for each. Then, for each room we play in, I have a scene. So I load the set up based on the version of the band we have at that gig, and then a scene for the venue we are in. The scene is what would have the EQ I set IP last time we were there, and the FX (more or less reverb for example, again, based on the venue). If we haven't played there before, I will save our settings as a new scene.

Some people use different scenes throughout the night. If they have songs where they want more reverb, or delay for example. A footswitch will let you step through scenes.

In the manual, it tells you what is saved in each...and I read it over and over and I think it is pretty much the same. I just posted above, that I feel the set up should have far less. Inputs, trim level, icons. FX, and eq should be the scene. But, no harm in having more than you need on this case.
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#40 innovawmqut

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:23 PM

Just got back from practice. To test the mixer we re-set all the instrument channels to start with. We are running nine instruments into the board. We started with running the trim annalizer on each instrument channel, made sure all of the effects were off, with the exception of three instruments and one vocal mic, On those four channels we added reverb and set send and return levels. We saved each channel strip with a name.

Next we turned each monitor level to level mark and then adjusted each instrument send to each mix.

Had a good sound and did our practice. made a few adjustments to trim levels, but all in all had a good mix. After any trim adjustment we resaved the channel strip.

At end of practice we saved the scene under the performance tab. Then we saved the setup under the setup tab. turned the mixer off.

When we powered back up, monitor levels stayed. Reverb return levels on all the instruments and mic were gone.

We went to sence and reloaded the practic scene. Reverb levels on returns remained off.

I adjusted the reverb return on the fiddle channel, saved setup, turned off the mixer, waited a few seconds, turned the mixer back on, and checked the fiddle reverb level. The send snd return level was correct per the saved levels in setup.

So....Performance Scene saving does not save the reverb. Not sure what to do next.

FYI, we are only running monitor mix. haven't messed with the front of the house on this exercise.
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