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Patch Change Pop Popping Noise Threads


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#1 ColonelForbin

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:54 PM

Attempting to compile the multiple "Patch Change Pop" threads. Seems like a common issue that lives with the 2.0 firmware, and doesn't exist in the previous firmware for the JTV.

 

My questions are the same as all of yours:

 

1.) Has anyone figured out how to stop this from happening while retaining the 2.0 firmware?

2.) Has anyone received any formal acknowledgement from L6 with support tickets?

3.) Does it happen consistently, with every patch change? Or is it model/amp specific?

 

"JTV Popping Noise Changing Models through HD500":

http://line6.com/sup...s-though-hd500/

 

"Jtv59 To Hd500 Vdi Getting A Pop When I Change Patchs That Also Change Variax Model":

http://line6.com/sup...ping#entry13928

 

"Flashware 2.0 Odd Issues Jtv59 And Hd500":

http://line6.com/sup...ping#entry34275


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#2 edstar1960

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

1) No - not me at any rate, and nobody that I am aware of.
2) I have an open support ticket and Line 6 have said they will try to recreate the problem but ticket has not been updated in about 5 days (probably due to NAMM etc) - hope they get back to it soon
3)The popping noise happens with any patch that forces a JTV model change - it can be louder or softer - depending on patches you are swapping between, it is particularly prominent if reverb/delay fx are on with trails on.
It does not appear to be model/amp specific. You can get it when no amp is being used in a patch, eg: when swapping to an acoustic sound. This problem disappears if on fw 1.9.
NB: I did reinstall fw2.0 several times and this problem was always there, rolling back to fw1.9 removes the issue, so I am staying on that until it is fixed.

PS: from the first gen Variax though to the JTV, manually changing the model bank to the ACOUSTIC bank will result in a loud popping sound, this is a well known and accepted condition, however, forcing model bank and model changes from the HD500 up to fw1.9 was silent, but with fw2.0 it makes the same type of pop as the well known ACOUSTIC bank pop for every and any model change when it is requested from HD500.
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#3 silverhead

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:25 PM

1. I haven't noticed this issue with v2.0. I can't say how prevalent it is, but certainly there are some reports. It would be good to get to the bottom of it. AFAIK it is not an acknowledged problem within Line 6. Does it happen with all patches? if not, Is there a 'recipe' to consistently reproduce it? If so, is there some global setting that can be identified that will make it disappear? Does it only happen with the JTV in combination with a POD HD, or does it also happen with a JTV standalone? Does reinstalling the firmware help?
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#4 pugdealer

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:47 AM

1) No. I've determined it happens much more noticeably on patches with delay(s), and only when JTV is connected via VDI, not jack.

2) No, didn't say anything to them as someone already had, so I'm just waiting as you...

3) Yes, consistent in frequency but not intensity! Previous FW for the POD also seem to diminish the popping, mostly noticeable on patches with delays as I said...


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#5 ColonelForbin

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:02 AM

Well, I am happy to at least know that 1.9 is "pop" free! I suppose with 2.0, it's a case of "three steps forward, two steps back". Some things are better, but other things are worse. It would appear that the overall concept of giving us "HD" instrument models may have hit a previously unanticipated DSP wall or some other architecture related issue.  Which would suck, since their model of doing business with the HD500 became the 500x... I don't want to hear in 6 months that their solution to this problem is to sell us JTV59X.

 

Back in the day, they paid to repair my X3L when it had the footswitch problems, and they did the repair on all the footswitches, not just the defective one. With DSP, motherboards, onboard RAM and whatnot, I can imagine it's not as easy to offer everyone a hardware updgrade. But, I do have positive hopes for the parts of the this gear that work right and well to do what I want! With the snow storm the delivery is knocked back a day, so my JTV should arrive tomorrow, and we jam on Friday.

 

One question: is there a way without connecting the JTV to a computer to know which firmware is installed on it?

 

Last, but not least, I think I have just added "attend NAMM" at least once to my bucket list... Looks like about the most fun on the planet for music gear enthusiasts! Should be intriguing to see what this new product is, tomorrow being January 23rd..


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#6 pugdealer

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

I believe they will fix all these issues soon. There's been a lot of complaints about 2.0 and line 6 tends to hear its customers and make them happy so 2.1 should be out soon and the popping and other issues will go away. I don't think they'll be selling a jtv-**X to overcome the issues...but I might be wrong
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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:28 AM

I believe they will fix all these issues soon. There's been a lot of complaints about 2.0 and line 6 tends to hear its customers and make them happy so 2.1 should be out soon and the popping and other issues will go away. I don't think they'll be selling a jtv-**X to overcome the issues...but I might be wrong

 

I would imagine you have that correct. Especially since people are reporting the issue - with no other mitigating factors - appearing or vanishing based on that 1.9 to 2.0 update. I'm with ya! Think positive, it's the best way to be. :)

 

I suppose with the HD500 vs HD500x, the issue wasn't really addressed, it was just shuffled down to an improvement in the product line. They may not have realized that the DSP issue was so significant until after it was too late to do anything about it. For me, the patch change pop is an actual "problem" or "error" whereas, while the DSP max out is troubling, it's not actually an error - it's just an oversight on the development team. That the HD500x is still able to max out DSP suggests that they knew the problem existed from the start, and just chose to ignore it - otherwise had they no realized, they wouldn't have encoded something to say "DSP limit reached" or whatever that error message is. By having the code tell you DSP is reached, they basically are saying that the cost vs DSP limit was a deciding factor in how to deal with that problem.

 

Ideally, the JTV "popping" sound can be handled with programming changes, and not require some larger factor(s) to be adjusted.


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#8 silverhead

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

..... By having the code tell you DSP is reached, they basically are saying that the cost vs DSP limit was a deciding factor in how to deal with that problem......

Yes - that's true. How can there not be a cost/performance decision in processing power? Of course Line 6 could have increased their price point and provided more DSP capacity. That's clearly where other manufacturers are (think Axe/Fractal, Kemper, ...). Line 6 targets a lower price point, provides less DSP capacity, and permits the user to control DSP allocation within the price-driven limitations.

 

The move to the 500x was not driven by a desire to increase DSP, and is not to be interpreted as any kind of indication that the original DSP is insufficient. The X series was driven by unavailability of the original processing hardware. The need to change to new hardware brought with it a minor increase in DSP. A small bonus, but not the reason for the change.


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#9 silverhead

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

1. I haven't noticed this issue with v2.0. ...

 

At the time I said that, it was true. I almost never change patches while playing; I always change between songs. However, having read more about the popping happening changing patches while playing I tested this on my equipment. I clearly hear it anytime I change patches while the guitar is sounding. I don't hear it if the guitar is silent.

 

I can certainly see why it is annoying to those whose patch setup requires mid-song patch switching. Definitely deserves to be fixed.


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#10 edstar1960

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:20 AM

I have raised this on Ideascale - please vote if you would like to see it fixed.  Thank you.

 

Here is the link:  http://line6.ideasca...508?submitted=1


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#11 canerakcil

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

This is a small sample, i wish it can explain the problem...

 

 

https://dl-web.dropb...GR6cv_id4lIyYSQ


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#12 edstar1960

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 01:43 AM

This is a small sample, i wish it can explain the problem...

 

 

https://dl-web.dropb...GR6cv_id4lIyYSQ

 

Thanks for doing the recording and forwarding it to me - I have passed it on to Line6 support in my ticket and I hope it will lead to some action.   Thanks again - much appreciated!


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#13 edstar1960

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:16 AM

Line 6 have acknowledged receipt of the audio file demonstrating the issue (thank you canerakcil) and have forwarded it to engineering for review.  The representative looking after my ticket has still been unable to reproduce the problem with a JTV at Line 6.  He has suggested that I double check that it is not a gain issue swapping from a low volume patch to a high volume and vice versa and to ensure all my patches are levelled volume wise and he has also suggested that perhaps it could be a latency issue and to try a different Cat5e cable for the VDI connection.  My patches are fairly even regarding volume and I have tried two different VDI cables and the Cat5e cables that come with the JTV and still get the problem, however, those suggestions may help someone else.

I will let you know when I get a further update with news from engineering.    


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#14 edstar1960

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

Line 6 support have come back to say that they don't think this is a bug or an issue and that it is something that will happen with any stomp box if you attack a note as you press the footswitch to engage the effect or change the patch.

I know that this problem started happening when I moved to fw 2.0, I know I get the problem even when I mute the strings between patch changes, I know the problem goes away or diminishes significantly when you go back to fw 1.9, I also know that I am not the only one that has had this problem and surely everyone who has reported it can't have just happened to have changed their playing style and forced the issue. Furthermore, if it was as simple as attacking the note and pressing the footswitch then surely anyone can recreate it - yet my Line 6 support rep said he cannot recreate it.

And how do they explain that the problem only happens when HD500 patch forces a model change on the JTV and goes away if you set HD500 patches to DONT FORCE or if you use a standard guitar? Surely if it was playing style it would occur all the time.

I have pointed all these issues out and have asked that they look at it again - and I have asked what the engineers say about the problem - but if anyone else would like to chime in and raise a support ticket to add substance to the case for fixing this bug then I would greatly appreciate your help.

Thanks!
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#15 edstar1960

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:50 AM

This is fixed with JTV fw 2.1

 

:)


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