Jump to content


Photo

Weird Overtones On Jtv 59 On Low E

harmonics piezo jtv weird

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:26 PM

I think I may end up returning this 59 after all.  There's a strange harmonic "ping" or "tang" sound on the low E string, especially on the frets from 5 down to open string.  Very harsh and digital sounding.  Extremely noticeable on the single coil tones, but even shows up on the humbucker models as well.  You can actually hear it a little even with the mags, so I can only assume it's something with the piezo saddle and bridge. Sympathetic vibrations?  Voodoo? Anyways, I can't imagine playing this thing live and having that sound assaulting the audience.  Suggestions before I make the short drive to Guitar Center to return it would be great.  Guitar plays like a dream with no fret buzz, but man, I can't take that sound.  Even my wife can hear something is weird with it.  I'm going to change the E string and see if that helps and look the saddle over while I have it apart, but if you guys have had this issue or heard of it, please shoot me some links or suggestions.  I found a lot of issues with folks with the 69, but not much with the 59.  Thanks.


  • 0

#2 edstar1960

edstar1960

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1104 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:37 PM

Try these things:

1) wrap something around the strings between the nut and the machine heads to ensure there is no sympathetic vibration there
2) use a thin strip of electrical insulation tape behind the piezo saddles and lining the grooves in which the string tails sit
3) ensure the flat part of the string tail is at the bottom in the bridge groove
4) use workbench to lower the string volume of the low E to make it less sensitive
5) ensure no part of your hand is resting on the bridge when playing
6) check to see whether the piezo saddle moves when you play the string
  • 1

#3 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 829 posts

Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

It should not have this problem.  My JTV69S sure doesn't.  I have not heard of any similar complaints here either. 


  • 0

#4 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 26 January 2014 - 03:01 PM

edstar, #2 seems like it would be the most effective.  I changed the string and it's better, but still slightly there.  I will do a full string change soon and do it to all of them and see if it helps.  It's definitely related to the bridge.


  • 0

#5 edstar1960

edstar1960

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1104 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:17 AM

It should not have this problem.  My JTV69S sure doesn't.  I have not heard of any similar complaints here either. 

 

There have been reports of weird overtones for the 69's mostly and some for the 59's.  Certainly plenty on the old forum, but recently there have been a couple on this forum for the JTV59 and one very recently specifically about the low E.

All guitars are prone to resonance of some sort but most of the time it just adds to the guitar's natural sound but sometimes the inherent resonance can be detrimental.  The JTVs are especially prone when using alternative tunings because the actual strings are still in standard but you are playing in the altered tuning, so the actual notes played on guitar may set off sympathetic resonance, where if the guitar had been physically retuned the problem would not occur.  JTV59's also have a tendency to resonate around the open A and D strings and fretted notes and I think that is down to the bridge design.

 

I have provided a list of all the things I have seen others suggest as solutions to remove unwanted resonance and weird artifacts, hopefully some or all will help.   Good technique helps as well physically stopping unwanted vibrations. The piezos are very sensitive and pick up much more than normal mags would and that translates to weird effects in the digital models.  If you don't have these issues then that is good news, certainly makes life a lot easier and the JTV becomes a real joy to own then.   :)


  • 0

#6 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 550 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:38 AM

I think I may end up returning this 59 after all.  There's a strange harmonic "ping" or "tang" sound on the low E string, especially on the frets from 5 down to open string.  Very harsh and digital sounding.  Extremely noticeable on the single coil tones, but even shows up on the humbucker models as well.  You can actually hear it a little even with the mags, so I can only assume it's something with the piezo saddle and bridge. Sympathetic vibrations?  Voodoo? Anyways, I can't imagine playing this thing live and having that sound assaulting the audience.  Suggestions before I make the short drive to Guitar Center to return it would be great.  Guitar plays like a dream with no fret buzz, but man, I can't take that sound.  Even my wife can hear something is weird with it.  I'm going to change the E string and see if that helps and look the saddle over while I have it apart, but if you guys have had this issue or heard of it, please shoot me some links or suggestions.  I found a lot of issues with folks with the 69, but not much with the 59.  Thanks.


Does this happen with or without palm-muting the string(s) in question? I had a similar issue that turned out to be odd noises coming from the adjacent string that I was resting my palm on. Drove me nuts till I figured it out. Not sure if your problem is the same...
  • 0

#7 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 829 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:21 AM

When I search for these things on my guitars (yes most guitars have some unwanted resonances) I play them unamplified and listen carefully around the bridge and nut.  A bad nut can cause bad sounding open strings.  Anything loose anywhere can vibrate and give unwanted sounds.  A JTV has more stuff that can vibrate.  Some folks have had problems with the model knob  on the 69.  The only unwanted vibration I could find on mine was the strings above the nut.  I have foam there to damp that.  My G&L has a resonance on the G string that I have not been able to completely cure.  It's a hard tail but there is some sort of rattle going on when I play an open G.   One difference with a Variax is that the piezos will pick up any vibrations in the body where as a mag pickup only picks up string vibration.


  • 0

#8 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:35 AM

@cruisin: It happens when I have my hands clear of the adjacent string. It seems to be a tone from the bridge as it can be heard even in the mags.

@charlie: I'd read about the foam above the nut. Some folks used a hair scrunchie. I think I may restring and put electrical tape on the bridge where the ball-ends of the strings are secured. If that doesn't help then I may just pack it in. Too expensive to have to fix their issues.
  • 0

#9 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 550 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:13 AM

@cruisin: It happens when I have my hands clear of the adjacent string. It seems to be a tone from the bridge as it can be heard even in the mags.

@charlie: I'd read about the foam above the nut. Some folks used a hair scrunchie. I think I may restring and put electrical tape on the bridge where the ball-ends of the strings are secured. If that doesn't help then I may just pack it in. Too expensive to have to fix their issues.

It may be worth messing around with the string volumes in Workbench before you return it. I adjusted the global string volume to lessen the piezo "quack" in certain models.  Lots of others have done the same and seen improvements.  I think that the piezos are just too hot on full blast, particularly if you're used to picking hard.


  • 0

#10 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:40 AM

I hooked it up to workbench once to fiddle with that, but then was paranoid about saving anything after hearing about the strat "position 2" problem, so I didn't save anything.

I'm still waiting to be approved by the vguitarforums.com admins so I can download the volume-leveled bundle for the models. Been 4 days and no reply. Tried again, and it said my username was in use. So I'm guessing I'm in limbo. Can't reapply, not getting an answer. Is it safe to change global volume and upload to JTV? Or will that mess up the strat tones?

It may be worth messing around with the string volumes in Workbench before you return it. I adjusted the global string volume to lessen the piezo "quack" in certain models. Lots of others have done the same and seen improvements. I think that the piezos are just too hot on full blast, particularly if you're used to picking hard.


  • 0

#11 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 550 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:25 AM

I hooked it up to workbench once to fiddle with that, but then was paranoid about saving anything after hearing about the strat "position 2" problem, so I didn't save anything.
I'm still waiting to be approved by the vguitarforums.com admins so I can download the volume-leveled bundle for the models. Been 4 days and no reply. Tried again, and it said my username was in use. So I'm guessing I'm in limbo. Can't reapply, not getting an answer. Is it safe to change global volume and upload to JTV? Or will that mess up the strat tones?

As far as I known those strat issues can happen if you overwrite the individual Spank model and save it to position 2. Adjusting the global string settings shouldnt do that since you're not changing the models themselves. Didnt affect mine any, and I've played with various volume levels and havent noticed anything funny about the strat sounds.
  • 0

#12 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 829 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:29 AM

It's not string volumes if you hear it with the mags.  It's mechanical!


  • 0

#13 smrybacki

smrybacki

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 350 posts
  • LocationCarlisle, PA

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

I think I may end up returning this 59 after all.  There's a strange harmonic "ping" or "tang" sound on the low E string, especially on the frets from 5 down to open string.  Very harsh and digital sounding.  Extremely noticeable on the single coil tones, but even shows up on the humbucker models as well.  You can actually hear it a little even with the mags, so I can only assume it's something with the piezo saddle and bridge. Sympathetic vibrations?  Voodoo? Anyways, I can't imagine playing this thing live and having that sound assaulting the audience.  Suggestions before I make the short drive to Guitar Center to return it would be great.  Guitar plays like a dream with no fret buzz, but man, I can't take that sound.  Even my wife can hear something is weird with it.  I'm going to change the E string and see if that helps and look the saddle over while I have it apart, but if you guys have had this issue or heard of it, please shoot me some links or suggestions.  I found a lot of issues with folks with the 69, but not much with the 59.  Thanks.

I had this kind of problem, and I solved it by leveling fret number 10.  It was a little high and as a result, was buzzing and causing what I understand you to be experiencing.

Take a small but VERY STRAIGHT piece of metal like a 6" metal ruler.  It only has to cover three frets at a time, so shorter is better. StewMac sells such a tool, but any shorter piece of metal or anything straight will work.  Anyway, place it over three frets starting at the first three.  Check to make sure that the level is firmly in contact with all three frets If it is rocking at all, the fret in the middle is high.

FIXING high frets really requires the proper tools and a bit of specialized knowledge, but at least you can rule your  frets out.  My Variax is a "Scratch and Dent" JTV59  from Sweetwater for reference.


  • 0

#14 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:36 AM

It's not string volumes if you hear it with the mags. It's mechanical!


I know. I said that several posts ago as well. But, I still want to set up the guitar and see if it's even worth keeping once the volume levels aren't so high. All the acoustics have a click sound when you strike a string like when you are using a very squished compressor. Very ugly sounding. This whole guitar is a PITA.

Makes me very glad I didn't pay full price for it and bought it while GC had it at $1083. At least then I'm willing to even dink with it, if I paid $1499 I'd be up in arms about it.

I do appreciate all the input though guys. Thanks for that.
  • 0

#15 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:38 PM

Finally got my admin reply, so I was able to download the banks and install them. After install, I lowered all the string volumes 2 db and I may do it a few db more. Already sounds so much better.
  • 1

#16 edstar1960

edstar1960

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1104 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:55 AM

Finally got my admin reply, so I was able to download the banks and install them. After install, I lowered all the string volumes 2 db and I may do it a few db more. Already sounds so much better.

 

Great news! Glad it's working out for you!  :)


  • 0

#17 diggerbarnz

diggerbarnz

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:13 PM

It may be worth messing around with the string volumes in Workbench before you return it. I adjusted the global string volume to lessen the piezo "quack" in certain models.  Lots of others have done the same and seen improvements.  I think that the piezos are just too hot on full blast, particularly if you're used to picking hard.

Globally? I thought you had to go thru each model & PUP 1X1? I was tryin to remedy my clipping noise & reduced one model from 100% to 25%...& it did nothing...besides make everything quieter - popquackfart still there


  • 0

#18 edstar1960

edstar1960

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1104 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:08 AM

Globally? I thought you had to go thru each model & PUP 1X1? I was tryin to remedy my clipping noise & reduced one model from 100% to 25%...& it did nothing...besides make everything quieter - popquackfart still there

 

In Workbench HD you can set the GLOBAL STRING volumes, as well as set the string volumes for each individual model.  It is an option on one of the drop down menu items - should be quite easy to find - can't remember exactly which off the top of my head as it has been a while since I tried Workbench HD.

 

The global page is intended for people to even put any volume differences between the piezo's on different strings - I think it controls the preamp volume from each piezo.

The individual model values are to allow customization for the model, such as muting a string or strings, or adjusting relative volumes of strings to each other for that model only, that is if they need further adjustment over and above the global levels.


  • 0

#19 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 441 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:22 AM

Globally? I thought you had to go thru each model & PUP 1X1? I was tryin to remedy my clipping noise & reduced one model from 100% to 25%...& it did nothing...besides make everything quieter - popquackfart still there


Exactly why I returned mine. It still sounded funny and fake with harsh overtones. I'm guessing I don't have a light enough touch, as a lot of guys are very happy with theirs. My second issue was how muddy and middy the mags were. Chinese pickups "wound to JT's specs" simply means: wind until they hit "X" impedance. I could wind wire around a dog turd and still get the right impedance. Alas, it's done now though. Good luck with yours!
  • 0

#20 diggerbarnz

diggerbarnz

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:29 AM

LOL - wire around a dog-turd...love it - I SHOULD have updated this, I've been jumpin around too many posts, once I adjusted "Globally" I'm back to McLovin this again...everythings sounding great & have been delving into workbench settings, adjust individual models as well & am pleased w/results - sorry things didn't pan out for ya man!


  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: harmonics, piezo, jtv, weird

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users