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Questions From A Stagescape Wannabe


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#1 PRSGuy

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:38 AM

Hi all,

 

Good forum with lots of interesting info, thanks for that.

 

For reference we are a 5 piece band: drummer, keys, guitar, 2 lead vocals, the remaining do occasional backgound vocals...sequenced bass. I am considering a complete line6 setup (mixer / speakers / subs). BTW I am the guitarist I use a POD HD500 and have been going direct for years.

 

1. Is there a breakdown of necessary subs / speakers to venus size anywhere? We typically play 100 - 400 people venues. The music is all over the map from current dance music to 70's, 80's and 90's (rock, dance, party music, standards, etc). I know this is subjective, just looking for opinions. Can I get away with one sub for example...

 

2. Do any of you use backing tracks? My band has a sequenced Bass and I'll need a click to send to the drummer too. How would one set this up with this mixer? (as an aside, I could use any recommendations on new software etc solutions used). We have used midi sequencers, as well as, a simple iPod with the mix R and click L...looking to see what others do and how they connect it up.

 

3. I come from a band using all QSC stuff with a LS9 board and later a Behringer x32. When I look at the Stagescape, I think it is neat, but does it really compete? Part of me thinks gimmicky, but when I read the reviews and watch the videos it makes a very convincing argument.

 

4. I am thinking of using side fill monitors, versus montors for all...anybody doing that with this product? If so, how does it work?

 

5. Only 4 monitors seems limiting (which is why I am considering #4). Comments? I plan on adding a permanent live bass down the road and for functions an occasional sax player. Hence, my conerns with the limited monitors.

 

6. We had an excellent sound guy. I am now looking to mix from stage. I am fairly technically competent with this stuff, but honestly I am looking to play, sound good, and have a good time. I don't want to be glued to the mixer (I am a guitarist). Does this board really limit the amount of babysitting I'll need to do?

 

7. In addition to #5 above, I am a musician not a sound guy. Although I understand signal chains...blah blah blah, I am not a sound guy. Can a competent / somewhat technical musician make a good mix with this stuff from the stage?

 

8. My drummer uses a roland kit. Anyone else using an electronic kit? If so, how does it translate with this setup?

 

9. Is this stuff crazy to lug around? SOme of the QSC stuff we used was *HEAVY*.

 

Any additional insight is appreciated.

 

Sorry for being long-winded, but this stuff is expensive, and I want to make an informed decision.

 

Thanks,

Rick


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#2 Digital-sound

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

Hi.

I can sum up by telling you it is a good move in all areas to a purchase a complete line 6 system. And I made the move with some hesitation as well. I went from a presonus studiolive 16.4.2, yorkville EF500p's and LS801p's as well as E10p's for monitors. I had a dbx driverack as well.

I now have better sound and a simpler set up and easier performance overall. I use 2 L3s's, 2 L3t's and 2 L2m's as well as the M20d. And that's all.

To answer your questions, in my opinion of course:

1. You will easily cover a 400 person venue with 2 L3s's and 2 L3t's (or m's). Probably even with one L3s, but I would use 2.

2. I only use one backing track for our night and I use it from a USB stick and play it through the M20d media player. I have heard from some others, that it is difficult due to a delayed response after clicking the foot pedal, and as well, the track doesn't stop automatically. Something to pay attention to, but others will likely have good advice on that. You could plug in your ipod or device you use into two channels and then easily send the click to only your drummer on the monitor setup.

3. I think it competes well with the other items you mention. If it lacks anything, it is the monitor sends compared to the others. But, it has other features which make it as good or better for sure. And when using all stagesource speakers, I am telling you, the system is magic. It really does make a difference. You will be amazed I am sure. The automation on the input gains is something I really like. And the fact that they are recallable. Something not common on most if not all other boards in this class.

4. & 5. Because you can have such control over your stage volume (vdrums and direct guitar), I think you will have no problem with the side wash monitors and only two. Maybe a third or in ears for drummer for the click?

6. & 7. This is truly designed to be used by a musician performing on stage. You will have no problems, and find it simple to learn and operate. It really is a "set and forget" system. And returning to the same venue at a later date makes it extremely convenient with the ability to save "scenes". We get away with no sound checks. Just line level check, and we are off.

8. Electronic drums will be no problem with this. Might use up inputs fast depending on the drum set and how you normally plug in (I have seen people use 8-10 inputs just for their drums). But people use them with no problems.

9. Not hard to lug around. Speakers and board are actually not a problem, and much tougher than they look as well. But overall, not heavy at all.

The system may look gimmicky, but it's not. It is an amazing system, and while the board may be priced a little higher than what seem to be its competitions, I think it is above those boards. And, the speakers are actually much less expensive than the speakers they should be compared too. These are better than any other sub $1000 speaker I have seen or heard. And better than speakers I have used that are over $1500.

The system would suit what you are doing it sounds like, and it would be a very worthwhile investment.
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#3 RonMarton

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:32 PM

A big "What he said !" from me in terms of Digital-sound's typically thoughtful, balanced and well-reasoned response to your equally wise enquiry, Rick.

 

...Sorry for being long-winded, but this stuff is expensive, and I want to make an informed decision...

 

No need for that apology, mate. We're all just people who use gear, from a huge variety of manufacturers ...and we know exactly how tough it is to both get the right advice and work to a budget.

 

Been there. Done that. (Still there. Still doing that.)  :lol:

 

...I am a musician not a sound guy. Although I understand signal chains...blah blah blah, I am not a sound guy. Can a competent / somewhat technical musician make a good mix with this stuff from the stage?...

 

In that regard, I'd only like to add what I hope will be a useful "comparison" to what's already been said, arising from the love I have for the Behringer X32.

 

I am, however, a Sound Supervisor ...and NOT a musician.

 

For me, maybe the easiest way to "picture" the StageScape M20d may be to say that it seems to take the "essence" of everything an X32 can do, but presents it in a far more compact and "musician-friendly" format.

 

It's fills a niche in the market that exists because, in the "real world", most gigging players simply can NOT afford to employ someone like me to drive something like an X32.

 

...I am thinking of using side fill monitors, versus monitors for all...anybody doing that with this product? If so, how does it work?...

 

...Only 4 monitors seems limiting... ...Comments? I plan on adding a permanent live bass down the road and for functions an occasional sax player. Hence, my concerns with the limited monitors...

 

As Digital-sound's already implied, the unprecedented clarity and "reach" provided by StageSource L2 enclosures being used as monitors will automatically simplify arrangements on stage.

 

In any case, most of us "old hands" in the mixing game have acquired the wisdom that leads to us providing far fewer individual feeds than our younger and more enthusiastic, but less experienced, counterparts ...and that's taking into account our ability to concentrate solely on mixing, without us needing to be on stage, performing.


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#4 litesnsirens

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:44 AM

Fully agree with Ron and Digital Sound.  The subs, look like beasts but really aren't that heavy and weight to output ratio is unmatched.  The sound is almost plug and play... as far as not having t baby-sit, I've used the same mix for gigs on end without touching anything in the mains... we use roland drums.. they sound great.  as far as monitoring goes, we've gone to in ears... but I have done both the floor monitor thing and the side wash with success prior to switching to in ears.  click is not a concern, if you have a way of implementing it now, just do the same thing with this system..


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#5 PRSGuy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:19 AM

Thanks all for the responses...I am still digging through the details.

 

Do these things ever go on discount? I will probably end up buying in phases versus dropping all the coin at once.

 

Again, thanks for the informed answers, I appreciate it!

 

-Rick


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#6 PRSGuy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

Actually one or so other question...

 

Regarding the auto trimming feature...how does it know not to try to automatically trim down a guitar lead that may bump up a few db's? In other words, does the auto trim only look for distortion (crossing unity I guess??) and when that occurs it analyzes and sets the input trims? So anything below clipping is AOK or does it look at the change in average or something of the input db and determine one input is starting to run hotter than the rest?

 

Also I would think the auto trimming needs to have a reference to trim to. If you have a good mix as far as balance etc, but you have some clipping does it trim everything relative to the clipping input so the balance and mix remains in tact?

 

thanks,

Rick


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#7 brianj402002

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:28 AM

Hi PRSGuy. As you would with an old analog board..when setting the trim..the instrument/vocal is set while being played at it's loudest. So have your guitarist play at his lead volume when the M20d is analysing the channel.

 
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#8 PRSGuy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

Thanks Brian. I understand that, it makes perfect sense. I guess where I am headed, if for some reason the level does clip (the key boardist cranks his volume during a lead, the lead vocalist warms up and starts pushing the mic, whatever) how does the M20d react? Does it only pull back the trim on the offending input channel or does it do something else?

 

thanks again.


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#9 litesnsirens

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

It's not an ongoing process.  You go into a menu set it up to auto trim.  While you are playing it analyzes and when it has enough data it sets the trim and then that is the trim ... it doesn't adjust on the fly while you are playing.


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#10 PRSGuy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:38 PM

Ah I see...thanks...I thought it was continually sampling the inputs.

 

thanks gents!


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#11 ArneLine6

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:36 PM

This would be the Trim Tracking button. When active the pre amps are adjusted automatically should clipping occur while the difference in level is made up digitally. The clipping disappears- the mix stays the same.
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#12 PRSGuy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:41 PM

Okay, that was exactly where I was headed...thanks...practical and clever!


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#13 Digital-sound

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:41 PM

Not sure where you are located, but LAMusic in canada had the L3t's going for $1049 I think it was when I got them. They are an online store, but L&M matched them so I was able to buy on my home town. But don't see them go down much. I would say get them before they raise the price in general!
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#14 joecozzi

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:37 AM

Just to add something to help elaborate on questions 6 and 7 that nobody mentioned is the ability to mix onstage using an iPad. If anybody in your band has one, you can use it for complete control of all mixer funtions. Also, If you give a band member their own monitor output, they can also control their own monitor mix via an ipad.

 

To further elaborate on 8, what's cool with the M20D is that you can create your own custom preset for your drummer's Roland kit and optimize it with all of the onboard DSP of the M20D, it's own EQ'ing, compression, efx, etc.

 

Did anybody mention that you can record your set? On separate tracks? Yup, M20D can do that, too.


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#15 petepraise

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 02:02 AM

I can speak to the backing tracks as that's what we do.

I have an iPad 2 in an Alesis iodock into two channels. (Some of our tracks are split track, backing vocals on one side music on other the two channel set up gives you both in stereo). I use Onsong on the iPad it is fantastic it gives me all my lyrics and when I've linked a song to a track (it uses the IPad's music so you link it easy first time only) now I just hit the play icon at the bottom of the song and the track plays. It stops automatically at the end, I can even swipe to the next song on the playlist near the end and it will still stop at the end of the song.

One of the best features and what really attracted me at first was the ability to mix a recording from the iPad so if we have the time this is our preferred method.
Once set up I save a set up for that venue then we sing a loud part of a song for the time it takes it to analyse the auto trims, then we go back and sing the whole song and I record it not caring about a mix.

Now I go up the back of the venue with the iPad (someone asked in another thread about the Air, it works great) I play the recorded song and get a great mix then I save it as a scene in the set up and at that song in the set just recall the scene. It's amazing (sometimes) to be able to hear yourself live as others will hear you -and be able to change settings, I don't know anything else on the market that can do it with as little kit.

I've found these songs require little attention in the live set some minor at times but not much and when we get a good mix for one it's usually good for the rest. At one venue a weekend gig we had that much time we saved every song in our set and I just recalled them live.
It is expensive but six months in and I feel I've only scratched the surface of the potential of this kit.
As for carrying it's also the best we've had, although we're a vocal trio not a band so we have two L2s desk and accessories which is the speakers two flight cases and stands it all fits in the boot of my car. It must be great mixing a band with 3ts and subs with this kit I bet it would be great to do.

If I could see a limit for anyone with this it would be inputs if there is enough I don't think anybody will regret buying it.
Sorry for the long post but I couldn't say it shorter
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#16 Digital-sound

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 05:48 AM

I have my m20d in a rack. A smaller rolling rack and I have added to of the Art S8 line splitters. That way it is all set up to use at places where there is house sound. We still bring it to use for our IEM's. So because I have it set up this way, we can just plug in and there has been a gig or two, where I didn't even take the lid of the case. We plug into the splitter on the front, and use the ipad from there. Don't even see the mixer all night. Ipad is very reliable and works even easier than the screen on the mixer. Only downside is no "global mute". I have to tap each inputs mute.
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#17 ArneLine6

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:59 AM

You could create a group to mute several channels at once. In setup mode double click an unused encoder and a dialog pops up. Groups are very useful for FX, drums, backing vocals and many other things. You can have up to 26 groups.
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#18 Digital-sound

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

You could create a group to mute several channels at once. In setup mode double click an unused encoder and a dialog pops up. Groups are very useful for FX, drums, backing vocals and many other things. You can have up to 26 groups.


Good idea! Thanks Arne!
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