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Experimenting With Dt50 And L3m


Best Answer johndkeene , 28 January 2014 - 05:16 PM

No real experience, just some recollection reading that the DT XLR out need to be treated like a MIC, i.e., the XLR on your L3m may not have the right input and is expecting a line level signal from a mixer. Just a thought.

That actually makes some sense. I'll have a mixer available in a couple of days to experiment... so I'll report my findings then.

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#1 johndkeene

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

I was experimenting with using an L3m as a monitor (we're slowly upgrading our PA to StageSource but that will take a while...) Note that I'm using the L3m (so no integrated mixer). 

 

I have an HD500 (with latest 2.2 firmware) connected to the DT50 via L6 link. The master volume on the HD500 was set to about 75%. I then tested the following scenarios

 

- L6 Link from DT50 to L3m -- full signal strength available, no issues

- DT50 speaker out XLR to XLR in on L3m -- no appreciable signal at all

- HD500 1/4" out to DirectBox, XLR to XLR in on L3m -- signal, but pretty weak -- had to turn the volume up pretty high on L3m so definitely a gain mismatch somewhere

- HD500 1/4" out to L3m 1/4" in -- decent signal, though for same volume position, seemed less than straight L6 Link

 

Any thoughts? My goal is to work out a transition plan to use the L3m for my monitor, take a feed from the mixer to balance in the rest of the mix and to use the DT50 speaker out XLR to send to the board. But now I'm wondering if the XLR speaker out works at all when using L6 LInk to connect the HD500 to the DT50.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

 


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#2 Slidedude

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

I was experimenting with using an L3m as a monitor (we're slowly upgrading our PA to StageSource but that will take a while...) Note that I'm using the L3m (so no integrated mixer). 

 

I have an HD500 (with latest 2.2 firmware) connected to the DT50 via L6 link. The master volume on the HD500 was set to about 75%. I then tested the following scenarios

 

- L6 Link from DT50 to L3m -- full signal strength available, no issues

- DT50 speaker out XLR to XLR in on L3m -- no appreciable signal at all

- HD500 1/4" out to DirectBox, XLR to XLR in on L3m -- signal, but pretty weak -- had to turn the volume up pretty high on L3m so definitely a gain mismatch somewhere

- HD500 1/4" out to L3m 1/4" in -- decent signal, though for same volume position, seemed less than straight L6 Link

 

Any thoughts? My goal is to work out a transition plan to use the L3m for my monitor, take a feed from the mixer to balance in the rest of the mix and to use the DT50 speaker out XLR to send to the board. But now I'm wondering if the XLR speaker out works at all when using L6 LInk to connect the HD500 to the DT50.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

 

If you connect a L3 to the DT via L6 Link, I think it's going to route all your stereo FX/Dual Amp panning stuff to stereo between the DT and the L3. 

 

If you aren't using any stereo FX or dual amps with stereo panning, then I would think you're going to hear a mono signal from the HD500 in both units equally.

 

You might even be able to create dual signal paths in your HD500 - one for electric guitar, one for acoustic guitar - and use the mixer inside the HD to decide to NOT have acoustic guitar coming out of the DT...

 

Very interesting concept. I've never tried any of this, so who knows?


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#3 johndkeene

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:23 PM

I play straight electric so no need to sort out using both DT and L3 concurrently for acoustic/electric. I'd like to start migrating to a setup that will work an M20D-based system. So to start checking things out, that's where I tried to take the speaker XLR to the L3 but couldn't get any signal. Then taking the XLR off a direct box (to ensure mono signal), I was able to get some volume, but not much. I am wondering of the XLR in on the L3 is expecting a much larger signal?

 

So I was curious of the L6 link between the HD500 and the DT affected the DT's speaker out? ie, does it disable it in that scenario?

 

My HD patches are all mono -- single amp, not using any stereo effects that I know of.


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#4 radatats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:52 PM

the DT XLR out is notoriously weak in all configurations.  I haven't heard anyone using it consistently.  There aren't many true mono effects in the POD.  L6 link will sum all stereo signals to mono for you so don't worry about that.  You can go into the POD setup to configure how you send your signals to each L6 connected DT amp, maybe L series too, not sure (Pg 9, Setup, POD HD Advanced Guide).  If you only want to send the left side or the right side or both you can select it.

 

Your best bet is to send an XLR feed from your POD to the L3.  Drop the DI from the XLR feed to the L3 and you may do better.  XLR is ALWAYS mono anyways.  Or rather, half of a stereo signal.  Left is always left, right is always right.  You can always put a mono effect like a hard gate at the end of your chain to ensure same signal is on left and right side no matter what.  Also try keeping the mixer centered on both channels, you get a little more volume that way too so watch for possible clipping or distortion.


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#5 johndkeene

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:04 PM

Good to know that at least things are working right with the speaker XLR being weak. i was beginning to think maybe something was wrong with the XLR in on the L3. But that still kinda sucks ;)

 

What I have done before was use full models in the HD, then just run a 1/4" into a direct box. I'd send the XLR from that (ensuring summed stereo since I was only using one 1/4" from the HD to force mono) to the board, and then use the other 1/4" to go to the FX loop return on the DT50. That worked fairly well for all concerned, but I always feel like I am missing the full DT experience. Thus the switch to use the L6 link to connect those. But with the pre models in the HD, I kinda thought the 1/4 -> Direct Box output would not be getting the full modeled signal (just the pre flavor). Is that a correct assumption? Or will the HD send a "full" render out the 1/4" out while sending the "pre" flavor to the DT?


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#6 radatats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

nope, if you use a pre model that is what you get both DT and XLR-1/4 outs.  With the L3 set for electric guitar it should sound good...


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#7 johndkeene

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:40 PM

But the L3 will eventually just be a full mix monitor.

 

So I guess the real question is if people are using HD500+DT connected via L6, and the speaker out XLR doesn't work, I guess everybody just mic's the cab?

 

I guess the other option is to switch back to full models and feed via the FX Loop return which is what I was doing originally so what I send from the HD500 to the board sounds good.


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#8 MartinDorr

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:01 PM

No real experience, just some recollection reading that the DT XLR out need to be treated like a MIC, i.e., the XLR on your L3m may not have the right input and is expecting a line level signal from a mixer. Just a thought.


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#9 johndkeene

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:16 PM   Best Answer

No real experience, just some recollection reading that the DT XLR out need to be treated like a MIC, i.e., the XLR on your L3m may not have the right input and is expecting a line level signal from a mixer. Just a thought.

That actually makes some sense. I'll have a mixer available in a couple of days to experiment... so I'll report my findings then.


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#10 johndkeene

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:35 AM

So just wanted to report back -- the DT50's XLR is definitely a mic level output. Running through a mixer, then taking the line out to the L3m worked great. It would be nice if that output wasn't directly tied to the speaker volume as sometimes I want to tweak (up) the DT50's volume (drummer gets louder as the night goes on) and that of course affects all the other mixes. But otherwise, that works.

 

So my conclusion is that the other difference between the Lxm and Lxt - the "t" variation that has the mixer has pre-amps whereas the "m" with no mixer, also has no pre-amp -- it is gained for a line input.


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#11 wicker_man

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:04 AM

This is good news, but I've always found that you need to have the DT running at very high levels to get any appreciable signal out the XLR.  I have previously tried running it into the mic input of a ZOOM R16 portable recorder, but the signal was too low to be of any use in my recording environment (and I have a DT25!).  It's a pity the XLR level isn't tied to the DT's master master volume control, as with the latest POD HD firmware you can leave the DT master up high and control the actual volume level from the POD HD Master volume control.  Unfortunately, this doesn't have any effect on the level from the DT's XLR out.


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#12 johndkeene

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:21 AM

Yeah, if I was going to make a DT25/50 suggestion, it would be being able to set the XLR out volume separate from the master volume. Maybe even match the simulated output level as if you had the cab mic'd.


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#13 MartinDorr

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:12 PM

:
It's a pity the XLR level isn't tied to the DT's master master volume control, as with the latest POD HD firmware you can leave the DT master up high and control the actual volume level from the POD HD Master volume control.  Unfortunately, this doesn't have any effect on the level from the DT's XLR out.

 

That's interresting, actually quite unexpected, and makes me wonder how the transformer tap emulating a power amp really works.


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