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Dt25 Fx Loop In With Jtv>hd500 Using Acoustic Models


Best Answer radatats , 28 January 2014 - 10:08 AM

There is no reason to use the FX loop or to bypass the L6 link connection.  What we want to do is bypass the amp modeling within the POD and send a clean signal to the DT.  This is easily done with a few small settings changes to an empty new tone patch.  Here is how I did it and it works great.

 

- Set input to Variax, same. (you may need to change from global to preset which may mean checking all your other patches)

- make a dual channel setup with Fliptop pre amp in channel A with no cab, change topology to III.

  (topology III changes the physical settings in the power section and just gets that nice sort of resonance you would expect from an acoustic)

- no amp in channel B.

- in the mixer Mute channel A, channel B to 0 or higher if needed, and center both channels.

- place Tile reverb as last effect in chain.

- place a graphic EQ in the pre section with the two lower sections set to -2db, top 2 knobs to +1db. (adjust to taste, this worked for my cab)

 

This patch works amazing with my DT25 head, 2X12 sealed cab with Celestion V30s and it should work fine with any other DT setup. It's not rocket science. I don't know why it shouldn't sound good at volume for everyone as it just sounds sweet with my set up. It may not be perfect but it works with all 5 acoustic models.

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#1 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:48 AM

So, has anyone come up with a good way to insert the JTV into the DT25 FX loop - while using acoustic models on the JTV going VDI into an HD500?

 

My primary questions would be:

 

- If you send the signal out of the HD500 fx send prior to hitting the amp block, and run that 1/4" into the DT25 FX return, will you get a signal that in theory should be routed direct to the power amp in?

 

- And, will this or any other signal plugged only to the Return on the DT25 also be routed OUT of the DT25 XLR out DI?

 

It would seem you could make patches that would as a result of not coming back to the HD500 skip the preamp portion of the signal path, however this also essentially defeats the L6Link between the HD and the DT.

 

Last question-

 

-Is there a better way to bypass the pre-amp portions of the modelling using some other method? Is there a way to choose no amp in the HD500, and also not use a pre-amp model in the DT?

 

I would guess that since the VDI to HD500 is still being used, you still benefit from the clarity of signal path achieved by going VDI to Hd, rather than for instance, 1/4" out from the JTV to a 1/4" input. As near as I can tell from looking at the HD500 editor, you should be able to move as many FX blocks into the PRE amp stage, with one exception - the Looper. I suppose you could set the looper to PRE, and then still be able to use it, despite the looper then being impacted by all the FX blocks set before the FX loop out.

 

Here is how I imagine you would program this patch:

 

Looper (pre) > FX1 > FX2 > FX3 > FX4 > FX loop [send] > to DT25 FX loop [return]

 

Happy Tuesday, Everyone, and Thanks!

 


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#2 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

A follow up question:

 

I started making some sample patches using the HD editor offline, and I encountered a strange option within the Variax page on the patch editor.

 

Does anyone know what the difference between the models in the Variax settings on the HD are, between the models with the 'F' prefix, vs those without?

 

As in, if I want the patch change to force the model change on the Variax, what would be the difference between these options:

For example, what is the difference?

 

"F-Reso-1" vs. "Reso-1"

"F-Acoustic-1" vs "F-Acoustic-1"

etc.

 

There is an "F-" version of every Variax model shown in HD Edit. Does that mean "full" or "force" or "fancy" or "flawed" ;)


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#3 radatats

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:08 AM   Best Answer

There is no reason to use the FX loop or to bypass the L6 link connection.  What we want to do is bypass the amp modeling within the POD and send a clean signal to the DT.  This is easily done with a few small settings changes to an empty new tone patch.  Here is how I did it and it works great.

 

- Set input to Variax, same. (you may need to change from global to preset which may mean checking all your other patches)

- make a dual channel setup with Fliptop pre amp in channel A with no cab, change topology to III.

  (topology III changes the physical settings in the power section and just gets that nice sort of resonance you would expect from an acoustic)

- no amp in channel B.

- in the mixer Mute channel A, channel B to 0 or higher if needed, and center both channels.

- place Tile reverb as last effect in chain.

- place a graphic EQ in the pre section with the two lower sections set to -2db, top 2 knobs to +1db. (adjust to taste, this worked for my cab)

 

This patch works amazing with my DT25 head, 2X12 sealed cab with Celestion V30s and it should work fine with any other DT setup. It's not rocket science. I don't know why it shouldn't sound good at volume for everyone as it just sounds sweet with my set up. It may not be perfect but it works with all 5 acoustic models.


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#4 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:29 AM

There is no reason to use the FX loop or to bypass the L6 link connection.  What we want to do is bypass the amp modeling within the POD and send a clean signal to the DT. 

 

Yes! Good call using the FlipTop, I dig it. That's exactly what I was hoping to achieve, I just wasn't sure if the rig would actually allow a "no amp" setting to occur - I would imagine if you define no amp with the HD500, then the DT uses whatever amp is set on the actual amp itself.

 

I am thinking you are on to something.. And with that option, looper can stay in POST, and the L6Link remains the primary signal feed which is ideal. I am guessing the FlipTop model works well with acoustics, since it's designed to be a more 'full range' amp model designed for bass frequency.

 

One question - do you know what the difference between "F-ACOUSTIC-1" AND "ACOUSTIC-1" is?

 

Most/all of the Variax models also show these "F-" versions in HD edit... I was wondering at first if that was for "force" or "full", or "Front", or some setting option on the pickup selector. I have been searching the forums, and posting this question, reading manuals, and generally digging, but not seeing what I am looking for. I created some basic patches using the 1/4" FX loop idea, for what it's worth, here they are in a .zip file.

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#5 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

- make a dual channel setup with Fliptop pre amp in channel A with no cab, change topology to III.
- no amp in channel B.
- in the mixer Mute channel A, channel B to 0 or higher if needed, and center both channels.


Could you explain the thinking here a little bit? I am guessing this is how you accomplish bypassing the portions of the amp modelling that do not place nice with the acoustic, but how is this working with amp A muted? I apologize, I am not able to plug in an try this out at the moment, but I can create / edit patches offline..

 

By muted, do you mean to leave the amp model "on" and the channel volume up, but in the mixer set it to "mute"?


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#6 radatats

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

No, no, no!  We are not running through the flip top at all.  We are only using it to "lock" the DT from switching to the amp in channel B and to control the physical topology.  By placing no amp in channel B and muting channel A in the POD we effectively send the clean "unamped" acoustic guitar signal straight to the DT power section through channel B!  We also have to change the input to Variax-Same to ensure that our signal is passed to channel B...

 

This setup provides the clean, unprocessed guitar signal from our Variax straight to the DT power section without ANY amp sims...

 

PS this is more easily done in HD Edit...  I would post a link to the patch but custom tone is AFU.  If you want to search for it I uploaded it as Rads Acoustic DT...


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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

We are not running through the flip top at all.  We are only using it to "lock" the DT from switching to the amp in channel B and to control the physical topology.  By placing no amp in channel B and muting channel A in the POD we effectively send the clean "unamped" acoustic guitar signal straight to the DT power section through channel B!  We also have to change the input to Variax-Same to ensure that our signal is passed to channel B...

 

This setup provides the clean, unprocessed guitar signal from our Variax straight to the DT power section without ANY amp sims...

 

Brilliant! So, I guess, technically, you can use pretty much any amp model in that slot, since it's a muted placeholder?

Or, does choosing the FlipTop do some power amp configurations that are advantageous to the acoustic resonance? (IE, choosing the typology III while technically not using the FlipTop PRE, is still doing power amp switching which varies from amp model to amp model).

 

I think I need to get my wife out of the house really soon, so I can test this out!!! :)

 

Thanks, really well thought out solution indeed!!!


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#8 radatats

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

yes you can use any amp/pre in channel A, this just has low DSP.  Set the topology to anything you want regardless in HD Edit...


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#9 radatats

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:55 AM

there are also a boat load of synth patches designed for non-DT use that have no amp and I could never figure out how to use them with the DT.  This should work for them too and I plan on reworking some tonight to check it out...  ;)


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#10 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:04 AM

Very, very, very VERY Cool!!

 

I haven't had much time to dig in with the acoustics, but they are a big part of why I wanted a JTV in the first place.

This is awesome! Thank you, thank You! :)


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#11 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:17 AM

Regarding my confusion about "F-":

 

Yeah, I am an idiot/newbie.... Just took a closer look at the settings, and there it is clearly marked "Variax 600/700, etc", and another setting for James Tyler....

 

DUH!! hahahaha :)


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#12 jakeman19

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:45 PM

 

PS this is more easily done in HD Edit...  I would post a link to the patch but custom tone is AFU.  If you want to search for it I uploaded it as Rads Acoustic DT...

 

Radatats,

 

I tried looking this up in Customtone but don't see it at all. Would you be so kind to send it to me in a private message, that would be much appriciated.

 

Jd

 

 

Thanks!!!  


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#13 radatats

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

Radatats,

I tried looking this up in Customtone but don't see it at all. Would you be so kind to send it to me in a private message, that would be much appriciated.

Jd

Thanks!!!  

Here is a link to a set list with a couple of variations of this concept...  try it out and give me some feedback if you like the idea or not...

 

http://share.cx.com/yGRXwV


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#14 jakeman19

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:41 PM

Radatats,

 

I finally got my POD HD500x back from repairs, turns out it my be my JTV guitar causing the issues. Anyways, I was trying to get your patches into my POD. I'm guessing you have a POD HD500 and not 500x as it doesn't want to load the file I downloaded. I even tried changing the extension to try to make it work. 

Help!!!!

 

Jd


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#15 jakeman19

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

Radatats,

 

My bad. I figured it out. It's a setlist and not a bank for import into the HD500x. These are great. Thanks for putting this out there. 

 

Jd


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#16 ColonelForbin

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

Yeah, I still like this idea, looking to get it finally incorporated into my bank as the 'D' option. I have just recently decided I want to start reprogramming my patches using the FS1-8 option, instead of just doing FS1-4, and using the bottom row to change patches. I get more out of switching multiple HD500 effect and outboard effects (Keeley) on/off rather than switching to a new patch. Invariably I always end up accidentally switching to patch D anyway, when I am trying to set the tap tempo, or sometimes when I am working the expression pedal.

 

I put this in another post, but I'd have the same configuration of effects in each patch, change the amp model, and set patch D to use radatats acoustic-JTV-DT patch idea, with the fliptop, the empty amp slot B, and the topology III.


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