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Dt Cabinet Simulated Direct Out Questions

dt xlr recording direct out cab sim pod hd pa

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#21 phil_m

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:09 AM

They state that it is! Its a CAB SIMULATED DIRECT OUT!  the cab sim imitates the physical speaker.  two paths out of the transformer, one to a real speaker, the other to a cab sim (speaker replacement)...

 

Yeah, I think you're right. I think perhaps we need to step back and kind of look at the bigger picture again. Remember that the DT amp itself contain all the amp and cab modeling that the POD HD does, for starters. When you use L6 Link with the DT in full volume mode, no modeling is being done in the DT itself, except for what happens to the XLR out. You have the preamp signal coming through L6 Link, it hit the power section of the amp in whatever way it configured, goes to the output transformer and out the speaker. The signal going to the XLR out would have cab and mic modeling applied in the DT amp itself before it leaves the amp. This is essentially having two layers of cab modeling if you have the Cab on in the preset in the POD, but, really, you have that with the real cab, too. In the combo or stack power amp modes, the cab modeling from the POD is more re-voiced, anyway. It's really more like an EQ applied to the signal to give the flavor of the amp being modeled.

 

In LVM, nothing changes on the POD side. The DT, however, bypasses all the topology, class, and other settings associated with the real power amp. Those settings still affect the sound, but the power amp is now being modeled. So you have the POD providing the pre side of the modeling and the DT providing the power amp modeling. Hugo said the cab model doesn't change on the XLR out, and that makes sense. That doesn't mean the output would sound the same, though. It might be very close, but it should be a little different because in full power mode, the signal going to it is going through the real power amp, and in LVM it's going through the modeled power amp. In either case, there's another lay of cab modeling applied to it. The signal is still tapped off the output transformer whether the amp is full or LVM.

 

This is at least how I understand it to work. I'm, of course, open to correction.


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#22 ColonelForbin

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:56 AM

Has anyone tested the difference in the DI out from the DT while changing cab choices in the HD? Or turning the cab selection to "none" in the HD? I would guess, that if what L6Hugo said, unless it defaults to some other cab sim, that if you choose none in the HD for the cab choice that the XLR out from the DT should sound horrible, as it does when you take the XLR off the HD while in combo/stack modes.


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#23 innovine

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:05 PM

, but the power amp is now being modeled. So you have the POD providing the pre side of the modeling and the DT providing the power amp modeling...because in full power mode, the signal going to it is going through the real power amp, and in LVM it's going through the modeled power amp.
.

Well, the signal is always going through the power amp, since its loud and coming out the speaker. My asumption for how lvm works is that a dist is applied digitally, after the preamp (possibly after the loop) to fake a driven power amp, and then it's reduced in volume to give lvm mode, and then goes into the power section which runs pretty clean. The tap on the transformer goes to the xlr out and the full windings power the speaker.
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#24 phil_m

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:13 PM

Well, the signal is always going through the power amp, since its loud and coming out the speaker.

 

Yeah, agreed. The tube power section is still doing something. It just seems that in LVM, the distortion and topology characteristics are bypassed somehow, and the modeled version takes over.


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#25 radatats

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:57 PM

From the L6 LINK™ Connectivity Guide:

 

Low Volume Mode Switch
Pull the Master Volume knob on DT50, or use the switch on the back of DT25 to toggle the Low Volume Mode “On.” Low Volume Mode functions independently of POD HD and significantly lowers the overall DT amplifier’s volume level. Way beyond a traditional master volume, Low Volume Mode lets you take your DT amp down to whisper-quiet levels for recording or late-night jamming. Since tubes distort less at low volumes, Low Volume Mode utilizes HD technology to pick up the slack and fill out the tone with rich power amp modeling so it still feels and sounds like it’s cranked up even at low levels (Also see the Direct Out functionality on page 4•6.)
 
So LVM configures the DT power section to either be all tube (off) or adds power amp modeling (on) to the L6 signal prior to hitting the tubes.  Either way, it does not affect or change anything in the POD, just how it acts upon the signal it gets from the POD.
 
Here it gets confusing again...
 
D Direct Out
The DT amplifier’s DIRECT OUT continues to function as an analog output with L6 LINK in use. Use of this XLR output is recommended to feed your “fully baked” POD HD + DT amp tone to an external recorder, mixing console, etc. Since the audio signal fed to the DT amp via L6 LINK is a mono signal, this Direct Out is a mono signal as well. Note that the Direct Out functionality differs based on the DT amp’s LOW VOLUME MODE (see page 4•3) and STANDBY switch settings:
• Low Volume Mode Off, Amp in Standby = The DT amp’s Direct Out is disabled.
• Low Volume Mode On, Amp in Standby = Direct Out signal consists of the “Full” (preamp + power amp) Amp Model with no analog amp. This is a handy option for “silent recording” while still providing the tone of a cranked amp.
• Low Volume Mode Off, Amp On (not in Standby) = Direct Out signal consists of the “Preamp” Amp Model with the analog amp.
• Low Volume Mode On, Amp On (not in Standby) = Direct Out signal consists of the “Full” Amp Model and the analog amp.
 
This description makes sense if you consider the DT as standalone but not if you are using L6 link.  LVM does not change what is coming from the POD so your pre or full amp is dependent on your patch, not the LVM switch.  They also fail to address the cab sim part for the direct out again...

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#26 MartinDorr

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:14 PM

Where does it actually say that Cab modelling is done in the DT when L6 Link is used. I though having read it, but I can't find it anymore.

I have no dout that Cab modelling is an option when the DT preamp models are used because at least the MIDI guide says so (and there may be other statements in the user doc).

Maybe we're chasing a ghost (Cab modeling) and the DT's really only factor a real power amp signal distortion into the XLR out signal when the DT preamp models are not used?


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#27 phil_m

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:14 PM

This description makes sense if you consider the DT as standalone but not if you are using L6 link.  LVM does not change what is coming from the POD so your pre or full amp is dependent on your patch, not the LVM switch.  They also fail to address the cab sim part for the direct out again...

 

Well, the cab sim remains the same whether you're in LVM or full power mode. The cab and mic applied to the output will just be the same as whatever you have selected in the preset on the POD.


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#28 phil_m

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:21 PM

Where does it actually say that Cab modelling is done in the DT when L6 Link is used. I though having read it, but I can't find it anymore.

I have no dout that Cab modelling is an option when the DT preamp models are used because at least the MIDI guide says so (and there may be other statements in the user doc).

Maybe we're chasing a ghost (Cab modeling) and the DT's really only factor a real power amp signal distortion into the XLR out signal when the DT preamp models are not used?

 

That could be a possibility as well, I suppose. Although, I think I was just assuming that since the DT is capable of applying cab and mic modeling on the output on its own, it should be fully capable of doing it with the POD attached, too.

 

I guess my question is why does all this matter? Is there something you're trying to do that's not working the way you want? Or is it just curiosity about how everything works? Frankly, Line 6 has never been all that great about giving answers to these sort of "sausage-making" questions. I think they just assume most people don't want or need to know. I understand how it's frustrating to some people.


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#29 radatats

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

Frankly, Line 6 has never been all that great about giving answers to these sort of "sausage-making" questions. I think they just assume most people don't want or need to know. I understand how it's frustrating to some people.

 

you nailed it!   :angry:  :wacko:  :blink:  :huh:  :)  :lol:  :D


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#30 innovine

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:22 PM

"if it sounds good it is good" seems to be their philosophy, but i wonder if the signal chain is such a mess that they can't reveal it cos it would damage their product credibility. When you start to read threads like this you start to wonder how its possible to create such confusion about something which should be pretty straigtforward. something smells with the whole thing. And besides, "if it sounds good it is good" doesnt help when things dont sound good.
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#31 MartinDorr

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:29 AM

Frankly, Line 6 has never been all that great about giving answers to these sort of "sausage-making" questions. I think they just assume most people don't want or need to know. I understand how it's frustrating to some people.

 

 

you nailed it!   :angry:  :wacko:  :blink:  :huh:  :)  :lol:  :D

 

 

"if it sounds good it is good" seems to be their philosophy, but i wonder if the signal chain is such a mess that they can't reveal it cos it would damage their product credibility. When you start to read threads like this you start to wonder how its possible to create such confusion about something which should be pretty straigtforward. something smells with the whole thing. And besides, "if it sounds good it is good" doesnt help when things dont sound good.

 

That pretty much sums it up nicely ...


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#32 Brazzy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:12 PM

Just for the heck of it I ran that XLR Direct Out from my DT50 Head (using LVM) into the Mic input of my HD500 turned the mic pot all the way up and then proceeded to make a few stereo patches using Amp Models and effects and recorded some tracks with Audacity to my hard drive, (I know there are better programs out there). With very minimal tweaking I had some very good quality sound tracks. It surprised me as I'm really always learning with this stuff. I was just amazed at how full the tracks sounded. I recorded silently monitoring from the pod with Beyerdynamic DT990 (600 Ohm) headphones and the monitored sound was identical to the recorded sound, IMO.


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