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Hd500 Patch Switching Delay Normal?

hd500 patch switch hd500 edit usb connection

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#1 foreverseek

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:02 PM

Hey just a quick question.  I just started using the edit software and whenever my usb is connected to the computer, the patch switching is very slow and hiccups...the patch switches, but then there is a moment, perhaps half a second, of silence, and then the patch finally kicks in.  I just wanted to make sure this is normal......however, ideally I would like to be able to leave the board connected so I can edit on the fly and save quickly as I go.  Is that gonna be a possibility?  One thing worth noting is that my computer is a MacBook Pro, but a 2007 model that is in otherwise perfect running order.

 

Thanks!


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#2 pfsmith0

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:16 AM

Yes, I think this is normal. I experience this, too. I believe the computer is downloading the patch into the HD500 on the fly each time you change something.


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#3 smrybacki

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

Hey just a quick question.  I just started using the edit software and whenever my usb is connected to the computer, the patch switching is very slow and hiccups...the patch switches, but then there is a moment, perhaps half a second, of silence, and then the patch finally kicks in.  I just wanted to make sure this is normal......however, ideally I would like to be able to leave the board connected so I can edit on the fly and save quickly as I go.  Is that gonna be a possibility?  One thing worth noting is that my computer is a MacBook Pro, but a 2007 model that is in otherwise perfect running order.

 

Thanks!

Are you suing a USB 2.0 port?


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#4 silverhead

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:41 AM

This behaviour is normal when the HD device is connected and HD Edit is running. The two devices (HD and computer) need to keep their respective RAM synchronized, and this causes the delay.

 

The delay should disappear when you disconnect the HD device, but of course then you can't run HD Edit..


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#5 foreverseek

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:50 PM

Thanks everyone!  Yes, I am using a USB 2.0.  Will a computer using 3.0 cause the patch switches to be flush, or will it be just less of a hiccup?  Just curious...no new computer in the near future...

 

Also, when my board is disconnected from the comp, there is still a very minute, but noticeable gap between my stomp and the patch switch.  Anyone know of a way to fix that?

 

And lastly, is there any way to make effect trails ring across different patches, so that when I switch out of a patch with heavy delay, for instance, the trails will carry into the next patch instead of cutting off?  I assume they just didn't design it with patch switches mid-song in mind, but that seems a little strange to me.  I do have the "trails" setting on, but that's only within the patch.  I'd like to be able to switch patches completely and keep the trails.


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#6 davidb7170

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:26 PM

No, the 500 & the rest of the PODs are USB 2 or earlier, but the USB 3 interface on the PC's and Mac's of the past year or so when it became more standard is USB 3, which is backward compatible to the earlier USB versions. I build my own desk-top PC's. My 500 & 500X are compatible with both my latest PC with USB 3 on the front ports and my prior PC build with USB 2 on the front.

 

One thing I do notice about my USB 3 versus 2 machines -- to reach my HD on the floor, I used to be able to use a USB extension cable on my USB 2 machine, but it does not work from my USB 3 machine, so when I hook up to the 500, I set the HD on a chair to get it within a single USB cable length of the PC, and it works fine... The USB 3 slows down to communicate with earlier versions.

 

I use my 500X out gigging, and have not had issues with any noticeable lags when switching between patches, even when switching the JTV models per patch.

 

Dave


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#7 foreverseek

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:43 PM

So in your opinion, if I notice any lag whatsoever in the patch switching (regular 500 version), there might be something wrong with the pedal?


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#8 foreverseek

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

Also to clarify, I am talking about when the pedal is disconnected, and if I time my switch a split second before I want it to switch, the patch switch is fluid.....it's just behind my stomp.


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#9 silverhead

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:57 PM

There is an inevitable lag of a few milliseconds during patch switching. The HD device must rewrite its working memory, transferring the preset definition from stored data to RAM. It's akin to page swapping on a regular computer. It is not, and cannot be, perfectly instantaneous. In most cases you can adjust your playing (one way is as you've described) to make this unnoticeable for all practical purposes. However, if you are hammering away at chording and change patches in the midst of strumming, you will notice the lag.


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#10 Dino334

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

I'm experiencing the same thing with my newly acquired 500x. Not used to this "lag" with my midi rack using my g force or g major 2. And not to bag on the pod, but the digitech, 11r, and axe fx don't have that lag. If this is just "the way it is" with this unit, then it'll probably go back to MF/GC and I'll have to pony up for a fractal. It's just not conducive to live playing in a rig.
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#11 foreverseek

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:17 AM

Yeah, Axe FX is definitely my next step, but not till I'm balling!!  Just went into the studio with the HD500 and it sounds pretty amazing, and I can time my switches to compensate for now..........just wanted to know if it was normal.  Thanks everyone!


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#12 hartvix

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:47 AM

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I'm having the same problem and I find that the gap when changing patches and amps is nowhere near "tolerable". Is there anything that can be done to avoid or at least reduce this problem?

I'm using the HD500X, updated to the latest firmware (1.20), but had the same problem before upgrading firmware as well. Here are some examples I recorded, USB _not_ plugged in, recorded directly from 1/4" output into a separate audio interface.

Changing between two copies of the same patch (looking at the waveform the gaps are roughly 40 ms):
http://www.emancer.n...ching-tones.mp3

Changing between two amps in parallell in the same patch (the gaps are roughly 80 ms with a nasty crack/pop):
http://www.emancer.n...tching-amps.mp3

Right now I'm reduced to using the same patch for entire songs using the stomps to change the sound, like adding a delay or putting a volume pedal in front of the amp to switch between a crunch tone and a hi-gain tone, but this really is a poor solution and doesn't give me much flexibility.


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#13 hartvix

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

Actually I just found a temporary workaround to switching amps in the same patch until the problem is fixed. By having two amps in parallell both turned ON and placing a volume pedal at 0% in front of each, turning one ON and one OFF, and assigning them to the same FS button I can now change between amps without gaps.

 

Example:
http://www.emancer.n...ing-vol-ped.mp3


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#14 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:25 PM

Very Clever!


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#15 pfsmith0

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:40 AM

The only way I know to remove the 5msec mute (on the HD500, I measured it. It may be shorter on the HD500x if the DSP clock frequency is higher) is to not switch patches in the middle of a song. Don't use the ABCD switches. Use the switches as FS1 thru 8 instead. It's only an issue when it has to load in a new patch. Turning on/off FX are instantaneous.


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#16 hartvix

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

The only way I know to remove the 5msec mute (on the HD500, I measured it. It may be shorter on the HD500x if the DSP clock frequency is higher) is to not switch patches in the middle of a song. Don't use the ABCD switches. Use the switches as FS1 thru 8 instead. It's only an issue when it has to load in a new patch. Turning on/off FX are instantaneous.

Yep, that's what I also figured out, turning on/off two volume pedals to switch amps is instantaneous.

You measured the mute to only 5 ms? As I showed in my clips my gap is 40 ms when switching patches (same identical patch copied to 1A and 1B), and a whooping 80 ms when turning on/off two amps in the same patch. My unit is an HD500X. So I'm wondering if the HD500X is actually significantly _worse_ in this respect? 5 ms sounds perfectly fine, but the 40 ms gap I have is intolerable in a live situation.

Which amps did you use when you measured 5 ms? I'm mostly using the Engl and Mesa amps.


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#17 pfsmith0

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

OK, I went and measured the mute length when a patch is switched and I got 80msec this time. Not sure what I was measuring before, but I checked it several times and always got between 70msec and 90msec. I'm switching between patch A and C, from Soldano clean to Soldano crunch, and back. The signal chains and FX were very different (but each had only 1 amp). Maybe the previous test involved patches that were very similar, I don't know. But now I'm getting 80msec. No wonder I can't stand it.


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