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Wow, It Just Hit Me Why Modelling Is So Hit An Miss With People....


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#41 gunpointmetal

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

I really think the only thing lacking is the cab modeling; if they could use larger IR's or a more robust algorithm (still have no idea how the cabs are done by L6) somethings would sound a lot closer. 

 

I always remind people when they ask about sounds "This thing is modeling the sound of your head (microphone) few inches away from a speaker...if you want your headphones to sound like an amp in the room, crank up the ER in cab block and cut some highs. If I could afford all the stuff thats in the HD in analog, I still woudln't, cause it would literally be a truck full of lollipop just for my guitar gear. Now I have two guitar cases, pedal bag, Power Block and cab, and I'm good to go. Never had anyone come up to me after a show and be like "I could hear that you were using the L6 HD500" so it must not be "off" in a bad way, right?


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#42 cruisinon2

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:07 AM


 

Do keyboard players have the same discussions?

 

 

Nah...they're too busy reminding everyone within earshot that they can sight read through Rachmaninov`s 3rd Piano Concerto, while secretly wishing that they had 20 fingers. :P


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#43 brue58ski

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

I really think the only thing lacking is the cab modeling; if they could use larger IR's or a more robust algorithm (still have no idea how the cabs are done by L6) somethings would sound a lot closer. 

 

I always remind people when they ask about sounds "This thing is modeling the sound of your head (microphone) few inches away from a speaker...if you want your headphones to sound like an amp in the room, crank up the ER in cab block and cut some highs. If I could afford all the stuff thats in the HD in analog, I still woudln't, cause it would literally be a truck full of lollipop just for my guitar gear. Now I have two guitar cases, pedal bag, Power Block and cab, and I'm good to go. Never had anyone come up to me after a show and be like "I could hear that you were using the L6 HD500" so it must not be "off" in a bad way, right?

 

Power block eh?  I have one too and am going to be using it for the first time shortly with my HD500.  Just out of curiosity and if you don't mind telling, what kind of cab do you use, do you generally use the preamps or the full amps of the models and what output setting do you use?  Studio Direct, Combo, Stack?  My cab is a Marshall 1960A.


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#44 gunpointmetal

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:40 PM

Power block eh?  I have one too and am going to be using it for the first time shortly with my HD500.  Just out of curiosity and if you don't mind telling, what kind of cab do you use, do you generally use the preamps or the full amps of the models and what output setting do you use?  Studio Direct, Combo, Stack?  My cab is a Marshall 1960A.

I'm using a Frankencab that is a Grundorf (rat fur gray, whoo) box with four *cough*BUGERA*cough* drivers wired in stereo @ 4 Ohms per side. I run it in Stack Return into the L/R effects return/ine inputs I use Preamp only models with the PowerBlock/Cab for my main heavy distortion tones, but I play metal on an eight string, so I'm avoiding all poweramp distortion to keep things un-muddied. . I use full models on my clean tones (no cab, though) because I can get more volume using the Master volume in the DEP section, and it adds a nice "sproinginess". I have used full models for dirt tones and the DEPs combined with the PowerBlock got some good pretend power amp grit when jamming outside of band stuff. That little amp is more than loud enough for most rooms, and since its SS you can pair it up with different cabs for different situations and not worry about running your power amp hot.


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#45 cruisinon2

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:52 AM

but I play metal on an eight string, so I'm avoiding all poweramp distortion to keep things un-muddied

 

Have you seen Ibanez's new 9-string that they unveiled at NAMM? Thing looks like a Chapman Stick with a pituitary problem. Neck is basically a 1x4. If you've got a left hand the size of a catcher's mitt and 2 extra fingers, you might be able to play it.


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#46 gunpointmetal

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:32 AM

I would definitely be looking at at least a 30" scale if I ever wanted a 9...or a fanned fret or something. I could never get along with Ibanez necks.


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#47 richprice79

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:13 PM

One thing that really impressed me in regard to the accuracy of the HD500 was the Deluxe Reverb recorded with an SG and an SM57 in this Youtube

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=G0NQf0CyiQI

 

And comparing it to the HD500 modeled one.  I can't remember what the HD500's settings were but I think I just cranked the gain all the way (like he did) and I don't remember what SM57 sim I used (again I probably just use what came up automatically).  I was able to play each one directly through the same system and speakers at the same time.  They were essentially indistinguishable to me.  If you have the ability to hear this Youtube and the HD500 both through the same system at the same time, then give this a shot.  I think you will be amazed, as I was, at how close they were.  Oh I was also using a Variax with the Special 1 model which I think is the closest to an SG.

 

And as I said before, if it sounds good to you it is good.  Forget about what anyone else (especially the "experts") say.  There were many of those "experts" back in the day who kept telling the rock, etc. musicians to "turn it down. It's too loud." and "distortion is bad" among other things.  This doesn't mean if you like the sound you've arrived at, everyone should, or will, like it.  In fact you may be the only one that likes it at the time.  So, make your own sound your own way.  If no one comes to hear that sound then you may want to reconsider it.  But the only people that really count in the  "does it sound good" department are you and whatever people you can get to listen to and like you.

I agree with you 100%. A prime example is a band called Type O negative, to me they have the worst guitar sound ever but they had a large following so just thought i would chime in. John Petrucci would be an example of something I think sounds fabulous FWIW.


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#48 innovine

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:20 PM

We've all heard a beginner playing away on an out of tune guitar, thinking it sounds good. 'if it sounds good' is just lollipo', in practice it just means as good as your ear, whioh should always be improving.
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#49 brue58ski

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:22 PM

We've all heard a beginner playing away on an out of tune guitar, thinking it sounds good. 'if it sounds good' is just lollipo', in practice it just means as good as your ear, whioh should always be improving.

 

I guess I need to make clear if it sounds good to you IF YOU'RE IN TUNE, then it is good.  I also made the caveat that if no one is listening to you and you want them to, then you may need to reassess.  More to the point, it doesn't matter how you get your "sound", if you find one that suits you, that's good enough.  With an amp, with an amp sim, plugging a distortion pedal directly into a mixing board, using the mixing boards mic preamp for distortion, using a Rockman module (Tom Scholz wasn't the only person doing that), taking a razor blade to your speaker, placing the mic across the room from the amp,  playing a cassette recording of a guitar performance through a  distorted guitar amp (all of which have been done in popular rock songs).

I used to hate AC/DC's distorted guitar sound.  And I mean hate.  Now I love it.  If they had listened to me back in the day (like that would've even been possible) we wouldn't have the AC/DC sound we love so much. 

Ignore people like the above.  He says your ear should always be improving.  Many musicians from the '40's would tell you the ears of a lot of the musicians from the '60's and beyond never improved and in fact got worse.  I would say your ear should not so much be always improving but always changing and exploring.  Like me, that AC/DC sound you were so sure was one of the worst, may turn out to be one of the best.  Try to shut down your prejudices (like whether you see an amp, or you don't see an amp) and just listen.  If an amp is the only way you can get that great, but be your own judge.  Finding people that don't like what you're doing and want to limit you are easy to find and will pretty much go out of their way to let you know.  BUT, to restate, if you're completely convinced that what you're doing is right AND nobody is listening you may want to reconsider.  I've certainly run across plenty of musicians in that situation and they are very poor, sad and angry that no one "understands" their vision. Be careful of that trap as well.


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