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L2t Vibration And Rattling.... Noise

l2t vibration noise rattle bad

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#21 tudscamp

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 08:12 PM

Wow. Lots of opinions. Trying to stay on my original topic of the rattle/vibration/annoying resonance. Unfortunately, I have to report that the L2M's are also making the same sound. So, I now have 3 with the issue.
I have to hope it is a simple fix and maybe even one we can do ourselves ( I hate returning equipment)
To all who have posted. Let's keep the faith. This is an awesome, cutting edge system and there are always a few kinks in early production.
Will post findings and updates as they come.
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#22 Mavril

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:45 AM

Agree with tudscamp,

 

Lots of good discussion here!

 

I returned the L2m with the most prominent rattle and just received it back through the repair agent without the problem being fixed. Unfortunately I described the fault as a sound similar to a horn diaphragm breaking up at low mid frequencies- the service agent didn't find this issue and instead located a volume pot sweeper crackle... hence the problem was imediately back when I plugged her back in at home.

 

Very appreciative of the consumer and manufacturer representation through this community. Feeling the frustration of being without the gear for about 2 weeks only to hear the same scraping sound again I was tempted to get on the phone tomorrow morning and rattle a few ear drums :)

 

Having read the info from ArneLine6 i will now take a chill pill and calmly explain that I have a unit or two that needs a "manufacturer service letter?" applied once an appropriate product improvement is identified.

 

ArneLine6, how far away do you believe the resolution is for us down in Oz? I won't return the units until a fix is ready else the speakers will sit in a workshop gathering dust and competitor badge marks :)

 

Also, do you have an interal reference number for this issue so that I can quote it when I return for repair? I'm assuming your agents will get correspondence on the issue shortly if not already in their inbox?

 

Look forward to your recommendation.

 

Mav


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#23 Digital-sound

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:32 AM

Mavril,

What is it that triggers your L2m to rattle? I have not heard the problem on a pair I have. It was mentioned in here that an "e" string on a guitar would do it. I use mine for stage monitors. Just vocals and acoustic guitar but have not heard the rattle. I am hoping I don't have a pair with the problem, but would like to test in anyway. Loud, full range music does not bring it on. Nor does the e on the guitar.
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#24 ArneLine6

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

Mavril,

 

Thank you. We are currently testing and this is a longer process. We have to make sure that all the speed control and interaction with our firmware works and that the long term durability is excellent. This is a complex process and I can not commit to a timeline. We are on it.

 

Thanks,

 

Arne


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#25 Mavril

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

DS, I first noticed the noise while I was practicing my chops at low volume on electronic drums :)

 

being drums it was hard to pin point the source of the noise so I setup a loop on a keyboard to cycle through the lowest octave and found the noise was repeatable at a low mid frequency, right in that woofy booming region 160-250Hz. I'm especially protective of this range as a bass player and hate any resonance, overloading preferring a piano like tight response.

 

I then checked the signal path with a tone generator (hand held) and found the resonant frequency.

To my ears it reminds me of a damaged diaphragm in the way that a low frequency breaks up in the horn spectrum but the horn is fine at any other frequency. I then thought that maybe the active crossover might be playing a part, knowing that the l3 has a switchable filter, maybe there was some smarts that were playing up.

 

Seeing AL6 response here it should have been easier for me to isolate the problem and detail a better fault report in the first place as I could and can now hear the fan kicking in with the noise. Still where I hav done my testing I am also trying to stop my house from sympathetic resonance in this spectrum so I admit I didn't isolate as well as I could have with some time on a stage.

 

Acoustic guitar is normally a little empty here with phosphor bronze strings but a nylon string should get it to resonate if it is going to. else run a synth bass tune through at about 80dB and you should be able to notice it if you have a problem.

 

I can just start to hear it in my second one now.


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#26 velok

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:34 PM

Digital-sound,

 

Although as previously mentioned you may be one of the lucky ones who has a couple of L2ms that do not rattle, here is how I can consistently reproduce the rattle.  I can take pretty much any electric guitar set on the neck pickup, feed it through my multi-effects pedal board (currently I am using a Digitech IPB-10).  I choose a clean preset.  I keep the level from my multi-effects pedal reasonable but hot enough to get an aggressive clean sound.  I choose the M20d's generic electric guitar pedal board channel preset. I turn my L2m's volume up to mid way or a bit more, hit an open "E" chord and bingo, there is the rattle.  I understand some of the other posts describing it as the sound of a damaged diaphragm or even a ripped speaker cone or torn voice coil because that is what I thought I was hearing at first.  After further examination I noticed that the rattle seemed to be coming from the vicinity of the back panel (at this point I thought, aha, loose part) but pressing on it did not eliminate the sound.

 

I thought maybe I was overdriving the M20d with too hot a signal from my pedal board but I set the trim level with the M20d's auto-trim, watched my "meters" to ensure I was not overloading,  ran the EQ flat, and I still got the rattle.  I know it is unique to the L2m because I was using the L2ms as my mains and a pair of JBLs for my monitors. The JBL monitors would NOT rattle no matter how much signal I sent them from the same feed the L2ms had been receiving.

 

Btw, you mentioned that you were using your L2ms as monitors.  I wonder if laying them on their sides helps to diminish or even eliminate the rattle.  Particularly if you got a couple of L2ms where the rattle is less noisy.  Of the four I purchased all four had the rattle but it was much louder and more pronounced in two of them.  You may want to test them standing up on the floor or pole mounted.  I had mine just standing up on the floor.  I never tested them for a rattle laying down. 

 

Anyway, good luck and in this case, I hope you are unable to reproduce this as it means you have two gems of an L2m.


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#27 tudscamp

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:17 AM

I called L6 last week and spoke with a tech.  Yes, he said they are aware AND working on a fix.  

Has anyone heard anything?  Line 6, how about an update.  I am sitting on over 7K of equipment that I haven't been able to gig with.  (Well, I guess I could, but I don't think it will help either of our reputations)

I would also like to volunteer if this ends up being "field repairable".  Send me the parts and I will install and test.  I am an electrician by trade so I am capable.  

How about it?  Anybody heard ANYTHING?

 


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#28 ArneLine6

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:57 AM

When you are saying you are not able to gig with your gear what is the reason? The fan rattle issue that occurs in some specific situations is most likely not an issue on a live stage. Even if this occurs it is only adible when playing a solo guitar and very close behind the speaker. Is there anything elsegoing on?


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#29 tudscamp

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:42 AM

ArneLine6,

       Here is a portion of my first post.  

"So, for this test I plugged in the acoustic guitar, vocal microphone, and keyboard.  At less than half volume all around (master and input gains), I am experiencing an obnoxiousannoying vibration sound.  The vibration is present for many vocal notes as well as lower keyboard notes.  It seems to emanate from the rear input panel.  It is quite prominent and can be heard by the audience as well as from behind the speaker.  To be direct and to the point - It sounds like (expletive here)!!!"

 

This isn't some small noise that you need to press your ear against the back of the speaker to hear.  (although even if it were it shouldn't have been allowed to slip past the line 6 design and testing teams)  My description of an "obnoxious, annoying vibration" is right on the money.  Please note also that all of the inputs and outputs were set low.  My daughter was about 20' away in front of the speaker and heard it quite prominently.  It was present for chords on the guitar, vocal notes and keyboard notes.  

SO with that, I am insulted that a Line 6 rep is questioning whether I am overstating the problem.  For you to say that it occurs in some specific situations and is most likely not an issue on a live stage is incorrect.  Read my 1st post.  Don't make light of it by inferring that it only happens on a solo stage and is barely audible - That is incorrect.  When I play a venue, I always sound good.  If that obnoxious sound only came out once every other song, it would have people walking away thinking, What was that?  It sounded HORRIBLE!  My own daughter told me it sounded like $*!T - and she is my biggest fan.

I spent over $7000 for your system.  Please don't minimize the issue.  


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#30 Mavril

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:54 AM

Very well put Tudscamp,

We all spent our hard earned cash on a device/system we believed was going to serve us best through our professional and other endeavours. There is a problem with this model, it is well documented in this forum as being more than a trivial colouration of sound. A speedy and satisfactory resolution is what we are asking of Line 6 in return for our faith in your product.

ArneLine6, just so we're clear, my L2ms are not shining an annoying blue LED light in my audiences eyes or a gaudy yellow colour or weighing more than I care to lift, they are not able to reproduce sound to a sufficiently high quality without being affected by this buzzing crackling sound. As a powered speaker, they are failing their core role.

I hope your comments are being taken out of context but my opinion is that a speaker that introduces noise of this nature into the media passing through it, fails at its purpose.

 

Looking forward to your reply.

Mav


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#31 ArneLine6

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:22 AM

Tudscamp, I apologize if it seemed like minimizing any issue. If you are experiencing noises like you describe it seems to be other issues than the fan rattling and we have to find out what is going on. Could you contact our customer service to see what we can do?

The US support team can be reached at 818-575-3600 (option 2), Mon-Fri 8am - 5 pm PST. Our busiest hours are from 11am to 2 pm.

The UK support team can be reached at +44 (0) 1788 566 555, Mon-Thurs 9am – 5pm GMT and Fri 9am – 4pm GMT.
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#32 tomtheguitarguy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:54 AM

I'm quite surprised that Line 6 even let's these pass the QC line.  I just picked up a 2nd L2t - and this one definitely has a buzz/rattle - but only on notes lower than a G on the Low E string of my bass...  First one, luckily, does not have a rattle or buzz...


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#33 tomtheguitarguy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:58 AM

Very well put Tudscamp,

We all spent our hard earned cash on a device/system we believed was going to serve us best through our professional and other endeavours. There is a problem with this model, it is well documented in this forum as being more than a trivial colouration of sound. A speedy and satisfactory resolution is what we are asking of Line 6 in return for our faith in your product.

ArneLine6, just so we're clear, my L2ms are not shining an annoying blue LED light in my audiences eyes or a gaudy yellow colour or weighing more than I care to lift, they are not able to reproduce sound to a sufficiently high quality without being affected by this buzzing crackling sound. As a powered speaker, they are failing their core role.

I hope your comments are being taken out of context but my opinion is that a speaker that introduces noise of this nature into the media passing through it, fails at its purpose.

 

Looking forward to your reply.

Mav

Also well said, Mav...

 

We pay good hard earned money for a quality product - and should expect the quality.  There's an old saying:  "Great Product, Great Service, Low Price - choose two, because you can't have all three".  When we choose Line 6, we are definitely choosing the first two:  Great Product, Great Service - and forego the low price and pay the premium...  I don't think it's too much to ask for a buzz/rattle free product...


 


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#34 matchgrip1

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:40 PM

I'm a brand New L2T owner.... So, I start reading some forum postings to get familiarized with my new L2T.  I'm a working drummer & my old faithful active monitor that I have used for the past several years had seen better days and finally quit.  So, I did my research, and was sold on the L2T (as I actually tried one prior to purchase).  I just received the new gear today (March 2014), and have yet to even put power to it.  After reading these posts, I'm now second guessing my decision.  I have a very active gig schedule and the use of an active monitor has given me all the control I need behind the kit as I try to be as self sufficiant as possible when hitting all the different venues.  I was told that the Line 6 was a state of the art piece of gear, and it would suit my needs perfectly.  So, with that said, I have back to back performances this weekend, and I plan to use this cube for both gigs.

 

Keep in mind that I don't dial in much of the drum kit as I use the Porter & Davies BC2 tactile monitor throne which gives me ALL the power I need to feel the drums. I just use the monitor for the rest of the band so I can hear them since I'm the guy on the riser.

 

I will report out to the forum once I have given this cube a try this weekend.  I certainly hope that this one doesn't have the fan rattle, but considering the serial number, and how long it has been in stock at the warehouse, chances are, it hasn't been modified.  Kinda sucks reading about this now after I just forked over $850.00 bucks as an investment.  Wish me luck...

 

Matchgrip


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#35 RonMarton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:17 PM

Good luck !

 

...And don't let them try to charge you any extra on the basis that "in tempo" rattling is a special feature that was added, just for drummers... 


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#36 matchgrip1

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:43 PM

Ha!!  WIll do Ron!  WIll post on it's performance after this weekend!..


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#37 altonabeach

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:53 PM

I do intend to buy the L2t but the problems mentioned above got me worried.
Has the batch of faulty L2t being identified with serial numbers.....?
In that case I could check if my intended purchase belongs to the problematic serial n. Batch....
Regards
Altona Beach
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#38 tomtheguitarguy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:36 PM

I do intend to buy the L2t but the problems mentioned above got me worried.
Has the batch of faulty L2t being identified with serial numbers.....?
In that case I could check if my intended purchase belongs to the problematic serial n. Batch....
Regards
Altona Beach

That would be useful info - the serial number range for the known affected units - and at what point the issue was (if it has) been corrected.  What about it Line 6?


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#39 Line6Tony

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:11 PM

Regarding the L2t/L2m speaker, we are aware of reports of the speaker rattling in very specific circumstances. As we understand it, the rattle may become noticeable specifically while playing a guitar or bass solo in a quiet environment when close to the speaker’s back panel. This rattle is caused by the fan and is typically not noticeable at stage volume. We have found this issue to appear in some, but not all, L2 series speakers. We cannot relate the fan rattling issue to a certain range of serial numbers.

 

We are currently evaluating a replacement fan that resolves this issue. However, this process requires a considerable amount of research and due diligence. Among other things, there are speed control, durability and firmware interaction requirements. This is a complex process that we are moving forward with, but unfortunately, we cannot commit to a timeline as to when this process will be complete.

 

Outside of this issue, the L2 speakers have proven to be very robust. However, if you are encountering any other issues with your L2 series speakers, we encourage you to contact Customer Service directly at www.line6.com/support.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused those who’ve experienced it. We know that you, as our customers, rightfully have high expectations for the performance of our products. As we should, we will continue to drive toward a solution. We thank you for your patience and your patronage.


Tony Reese
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#40 mac3

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:02 AM

Count me down, too - I'm a new L2T owner with this same rattle issue.  I had it replaced already once by the dealer but the replacement has the same issue.  I have the rattle between E and G chords/notes on the guitar at almost all volumes.  F seems to be the worst.  I  would like to know that Line6 will take care of these already purchased speakers when they find the fix before I decide to return or keep it. Actually, I was hoping to buy a second one this month but, so far I can't tell what support you are offering other than admitting the problem exists.  Are you planning a refund/recall or fix for any speaker that has this issue or will the fix only be for new ones manufactured from now on?  Any help or information would be appreciated.  thanks


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