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Dt-25 Effects Loop Bypassed When Using Xlr Out?


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#21 radatats

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:52 AM

  BFD... I rarely use any more than one configuration anyways... maybe we'll find out later that's all done pre power section anyways...  psyche... modeled relay switching...


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#22 Brazzy

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:08 AM

I am just really tired of trying to figure out how this thing is really working, having to jump back and forth between multiple manuals for snippets of info that sometimes seems to conflict, only to find out that isn't what's actually going on anyways...  and finding out a lot of what I thought I was helping others with was pure lollipop...

 

I don't try to figure out these devices completely so what I do is just use my ears and keep trying different things and taking mental notes. Whenever I mess around with these things I allott a small amount of time to configuring and alot more time playing guitar this way I don't become obsessed with details and focus more on playing. I spend alot of time just playing guitar into a small amp with a bit of reverb just to keep my fingers tuned.


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I mostly play at home and my own music which is more of a bluesy Jazzy Rock mixture as I'm still learning how to play guitar so when I post a reply to try and help give ideas you know where I'm coming from. In a nutshell I'm always learning and having fun doing it. Rock-On!! Oh, and if I don't respond promptly I'm probably playing guitar or my computer locked up from multitasking 'cause I'm using Gear Box, HD500 Edit, Audacity and tab filled browsers all at the same time, Hahahaaaa. Surprisingly enough my 'puter handles the load more times than not.
 

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#23 TheRealZap

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:24 AM

makes a world of difference between sounding like a modeled amp and sounding like the real thing to me...

 

and it's not "faked" haha.

 

  BFD... I rarely use any more than one configuration anyways... maybe we'll find out later that's all done pre power section anyways...  psyche... modeled relay switching...


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#24 radatats

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:56 AM

do they sound like modeled amps going FRFR when that option isn't even available?  hmmm...  I mostly prefer topology III...  I made a suggestion on idea scale to enable topology modeling in the full amp models...


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#25 phil_m

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:59 AM

do they sound like modeled amps going FRFR when that option isn't even available?  hmmm...  I mostly prefer topology III...  I made a suggestion on idea scale to enable topology modeling in the full amp models...

 

Are you saying that you want to be able to choose the power amp topology in the models as well? That actually would be pretty cool. That would make it so you could build hybrid amp models within the POD itself. I don't know if something that's feasible or not. I like the idea, though.


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#26 TheRealZap

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:24 AM

no... but you probably shouldn't be using the full models in an L6LINK situation... like you would in an FRFR situation...

you of course could... but anyway...

 

do they sound like modeled amps going FRFR when that option isn't even available?  hmmm...  I mostly prefer topology III...  I made a suggestion on idea scale to enable topology modeling in the full amp models...


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#27 radatats

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:17 AM

Are you saying that you want to be able to choose the power amp topology in the models as well? That actually would be pretty cool. That would make it so you could build hybrid amp models within the POD itself. I don't know if something that's feasible or not. I like the idea, though.

 

yes, in the models, be able to choose the topology...  not for L6 link use, for FRFR use with just modeling.


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#28 MartinDorr

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:15 PM

While we're all going at it I throw in a hunch (unverified observation) that if true will make you use Line 6 Link and not go directly to the effects loop return.

I tried in the past (not very successful considering the effort and outcome) to balance volume of different tones by measuring RMS levels via USB assuming this signal will be sent to the DT for amplification.

My assumption was that if I send balanced power levels to the DT _AND_ use the same power amp configuration I should end up with same level volume out of the speakers.

Not so. I got so frustrated from this not working that I gave up before remeasuring and tripple checking everything, but my conclusion was that the HD is sending at least the Drive setting to the DT via Line 6 Link and Drive is used by the power amp stage and thus changes the volume and tone the power amp stage produces.

In other words even though Drive changes the preamp level (besides the tone), balancing preamp output levels sent to the DT will not produce balanced volume even if the same power amp type is used if the Drive settings of the tones are different. The effect seems to be most pronounced with the higher feedback types.

As I said earlier this would need to be rechecked before it can be trusted because I really dropped the ball in frustration and went back just playing rather than measuring and looking for the ellusive truth we all seem to be hunting off and on.


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#29 radatats

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

As I said earlier this would need to be rechecked before it can be trusted because I really dropped the ball in frustration and went back just playing rather than measuring and looking for the ellusive truth we all seem to be hunting off and on.

 

thanks bro... probably right.  Just play the damn thing and quit trying to figure it out.  I mean it, I am going to lay off the help and advice and let our resident experts chime in instead.  I will keep my separate patches too.  I still have one more piece to get to complete my FRFR rig and I will decide then if I am going to keep both.


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#30 tankaviator

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:47 AM

Ok, so to try to bring this back a bit....

 

• Low Volume Mode On, Amp in Standby = Direct Out signal consists of the “Full” (preamp + power amp) Amp Model with no analog amp.
• Low Volume Mode Off, Amp On (not in Standby) = Direct Out signal consists of the “Preamp” Amp Model with the analog amp.
• Low Volume Mode On, Amp On (not in Standby)= Direct Out signal consists of the “Full” Amp Model and the analog amp.
 
This *seems* to indicate that LVM on, STDBY using the XLR out should provide a signal with the effects loop applied to it. According to iknowathingortwo's post above (which mirrors my own experience) the only time the effects loop is included in the XLR out is when the amp is fully on...
 

Low Volume mode OFF:

Amp On (not in standby):   FX Loop heard on direct out

Amp Off (in standby):  Nothing

 

Low Volume Mode ON:

Amp On (not in standby): FX Loop NOT present on direct out

Amp Off (in standby); FX Loop NOT present on direct out

 

 

So the only time it works is when the amp is fully on.

 

So, is this the expected behavior or not? I don't necessarily care how the master volume is wired up as long as it controls the overall volume in an intuitive manner. But the effects loop being bypassed is really bad. Of course the effects loop on a POD is applied before the XLR out and doesn't suffer the same fate as the 1/4" connectors (assuming an L6Link cable is used). Is this just a way to push people towards getting a POD? Honestly I'm starting to think I should sell my DT 25 and go looking for a decent head with nice clean and eye watering distortion channels (oh I would love to get a Nitrox).


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#31 innovine

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:56 AM

'expected' is a bit of a loaded term. Sure, teh fx loop doesn't work with LVM, but personally I think LVM sounds bad anyway, and I don't use it, so the fx loop thing doesn't bother me. Turning the channel volume down works better than LVM for low volume, for me.


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#32 tankaviator

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:13 PM

No, 'expected' isn't an overloaded term in this case. We use it all the time in the software industry. It just means that these modes were intentionally created like this (for whatever reason) as opposed to being a side effect or byproduct of some other decisions or a bug in the firmware.

 

I can try full volume mode with the master turned down. Is the direct out signal line level or does it vary with the master volume? When I play at home I use headphones from my mixer (which is connected via the XLR cable) which is why I am curious. 


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#33 innovine

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:49 AM

I'd say its working as designed, but customer expectation would be that the fx loop always works.

The signal from the direct out is mic level and varies with the master. I do like this: set master pretty low. Set channel volume to taste. You can also set pod hd500 master lower if thats in the chain*. Then run the direct out to a good mic preamp. This gives me low room volume, fx loop and a usable direct signal. I wouldn't commit to a serious recording \ike this but its fine for scratch tracks or composing, jamming, etc

*this is preffered over channel volume if you have pod fx after the preamp. Channel volume attenuates aft'r the preamp, then come possible effects, then the pod master attenuates as the signal leaves the pod and enters the dt25. I don't know if the dt master is before or after the fx send but its definitely before the return :( I don't use the fx loop much, perhaps someone else can chime in for that
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#34 talwilkins

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

Low Volume mode OFF:

Amp On (not in standby):   FX Loop heard on direct out

Amp Off (in standby):  Nothing

 

Low Volume Mode ON:

Amp On (not in standby): FX Loop NOT present on direct out

Amp Off (in standby); FX Loop NOT present on direct out

 

 

So the only time it works is when the amp is fully on.

 

 

Just recorded something via XLR in Low Volume Mode and in Standby.

I have a ZOOM G5 in the effects loop.

The effects from the ZOOM were part of the signal, no doubt about it.


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#35 innovine

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 01:00 PM

Just recorded something via XLR in Low Volume Mode and in Standby.

I have a ZOOM G5 in the effects loop.

The effects from the ZOOM were part of the signal, no doubt about it.

 

Are you sure you are not mistaken? I am most certainly not hearing any fx loop action on my direct out in LVM mode and in standby.

I am using a DT25 with no pod connected.

guitar -> dt25 in -> dt25 fx send -> dist pedal -> echo pedal -> dt25 fx return -> xlr out 

There is NO dist or echo in the signal (and i can even disconnect the input to the dist pedal), makes no difference when the amp is in LVM and standby


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#36 talwilkins

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

Sorry, my bad.

I am using the POD and of course have the ZOOM in its effects loop not the DT's

:unsure:


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