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Come Back To Us, Prodigal Company. An Open Letter.


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#1 scheater5

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:09 PM

I'm about to make a post that people hate.  People hate it because, "if you hate the company so much, why are you posting on their forums!!!??!!  Just go away!"  But I don't hate Line 6.  

 

It's what Line 6 has been doing lately that I don't see eye to eye with.   

 

Dear, Line 6.  I'm a professional musician.  I have QSC speakers and a Presonus board.  I don't care how "neat-o" your new speakers or mixer are.  

 

If I wanted an amp, I'd buy the one that made the sound I wanted.  And if I wanted one of your amps, I'd buy the one designed by Bogner.  A professional musician doesn't want an amp with an iPad.  

 

Maybe you're having great success.  Maybe the 16-year-old-with-parent's-money market is lucrative right now.  Bless you for it.  But don't let us fall by the wayside.  Us, the gigging musician who has carried your company through good times and down economies.  Us, who will come back, time and time again, to a company that does us right.  We're not "loyal," we just want to trust our gear on stage night after night.  

 

But Line 6, you haven't been trustworthy lately.  I want - I desperately want - to stay in this ecosystem, because with a few tweaks, a Variax and a PodHD truly could be a dream rig.  But I'm eyeing greener pastures a lot lately. 

 

Update the firmware to the Pod.  If nothing else, fix the dumb math mistakes that forum users have pointed out over and over.  

 

The trade shows and people who want "new shiny" have enough to chew on for a while.  Throw the gigging man a bone.  We want to come back home, Line 6. 


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#2 jandrio

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:58 AM

  ...A professional musician doesn't want an amp with an iPad.  .... 

 

...with a few tweaks, a Variax and a PodHD truly could be a dream rig..... 

 

 ...we just want to trust our gear on stage night after night......

 

 

+3000 t0 scheater5 (1000 for each bullet point) :D


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#3 tim1953

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:43 PM

I know the so called Line 6 experts will trash this but I agree with Scheater5.

Hasn't been much action on the Variax forum lately - could very well be that it's becoming another dead in the water product.

Chances are the HD 500 is heading there too.

 

By the way how do you become a Line 6 expert.


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#4 silverhead

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:02 PM

...
Can I become one - I think it would be fun to insult some people here... :)

Clearly you're already perfectly capable.......

Why the insult?
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#5 tim1953

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:18 PM

Clearly you're already perfectly capable.......

Why the insult?

Dude sorry.

I didn't mean it as an insult.

Although I've been insulted several times over the past 3 years by a line 6 expert or two because they didn't agree with a few of my complaints so they blew them off as nonsense.

Actually I was just asking how someone becomes a Line 6 Expert - what qualifies a person as one.

I think that's a fair question since a lot of people come here to ask questions.

Sorry and since you took it as an insult I'll remove it.


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#6 silverhead

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

You need to ask Line 6 that question. All of us received unsolicited invitations to wear the Expert tag. None of us were provided with a specific list of criteria that we had met. In my opinion it has mostly to do with our product knowledge, communication style, and generally helpful attitude.

We volunteer a lot of time here in the forums. But we're only human; when insulted we sometimes respond in kind - but we try hard not to. And as just  demonstrated, we can feel insulted even when it was apparently unintentional. The black and white of text can easily result in miscommunication.

Thank you for editing your post.


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#7 Mr_Arkadin

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:22 AM

I know the so called Line 6 experts will trash this but I agree with Scheater5.

 

I know no expert that will trash what you say. You have a right to express an opinion as much as anyone else. Whether we agree or disagree is each experts personal choice (we don't always agree with each other), but that's not trashing, that's just having a different opinion.


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#8 Tboneous

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:46 AM

Trusting our gear night after night! Amen!

My situation is anicdotal And of course anecdote is not evidence but I have had nothing but stress when gigging with my Dream rig. Many times I hook it up all the lights come on but no sound. There are weird and unsolicited bumps, pops and hisses. I was at a gig ripping a killer blues solo and my amp just stopped working. I bypassed everything I could bypass, I wiggled every wire I could wiggle, rebooted everything that could be rebooted to no avail. Only to get home and have everything work fine. Now my amp rings/feedback when I hit a chord on a clean channel (maybe a tube issue)

The Gurus on this forum all offer friendly helpful thoughts about my issue, All different and none of it gets me to the point where I can say "ah-ha Thanx! That fixed my problem"! Which I understand. They are giving advice on a forum about an amp they haven't seen, touched looked at or heard. Its all a Best guess and I appreciate it. None have been insulting and quite honestly people need to cowboy up! What are they supposed to do? Qualify every statement? Massage every oversensitive ego with glittering generalities on a forum about music gear?!? Ain't Nobody Got Time For That!

It does beg the question: Why are some of us having so many problems with this gear? This is supposed to be pro gear and I am a pro player. I don't mind tweaking a tone to make it just right but we shouldn't have to hold our breaths every time we attempt to power up our rigs. I have a Two Rock amp. It works every time. Never an issue. Plug it in and go! Every single time! No pops, no bumps, no hissing, no rebooting, no tone interruptions. Plug it in, turn it on, play music, repeat. But the Two Rock is a one trick pony. Which is why the dream rig appealed to me. And when it works, it's sounds better than my much more expensive Two Rock in certain situations.

The fact that I have to throw in the caveat "when it works" is disturbing and head explodingly frustrating!

Now I have had to pay $100 to ship my flagship Line6 amp to the service department. I've owned my Two Rock for 5 years, haven't had to change a tube yet!

To me, this is unacceptable! Maybe this is why I don't see any Dt50's in the gear rundown of some of the top players. Maybe it's a pipe dream rig! I'll know more when I get the amp back. Until then I continue to use my Two Rock. Sure it's a one trick pony tone wise but it's most impressive trick is that it turns on!
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#9 scheater5

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

I've had no problems with my gear with regards to QC (though I do have an occasional bug in my POD where it glitches out and just sends noise - but a simple reboot always fixes it) so I can't speak to that.  I also don't own a DT-50 - if there are QC problems with the amps, then that's definitely something holding Line 6 back.  

 

What drives me absolutely insane is the seeming abandon of pro players.  The fact that the pods have had outstanding bugs for well over a year - new amps models are nice and all, but not fixing bugs is unacceptable.  I keep hearing word that the Variax players feel abandoned, too - though I don't own a Variax, so I can't say for sure.  Still, I very much want a Variax and have been eyeing one for a long time...but that's enough to give me pause and put me in "wait and see" mode.  

 

I'm bringing this up because it's concrete.  I'm not randomly venting.  I want to buy a Variax and stay in Line 6-land, but if things don't change, I'm going to put that money towards a better amp modeler and cut my losses. I'm talking money, Line 6. Mine.  And a bunch of pro players that feel the same way I do. 


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#10 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:29 PM

I know how ya feel. I used to gig quite a lot, and then took several years off playing to allow some neck, back and wrist injuries time to heal. Spent most of my energy during those interim years being part of the audience, and doing a fair amount of live band recording. Had a blast, major fun.

 

Getting (slowly) back into playing music, with a healthy dose of revised technique and semi-regular visits to a chiropractor.

 

I recently sprung for a JTV59 and a DT25, have had the HD500 since 2010.

 

I had similar frustration levels with the AMPLIFi release. The marketing stuff gets to me even when I don't want it to, so like a tone junkie, moth to the flame, it made me want one. Until it was actually released. Then it made me want a second DT25...

 

I have high hopes for the future of this company. The power of Yamaha behind them may drive their product development - and their follow through - to newer, better levels.

 

There are always going to be glitches, and issues and problems and inconsistencies. It would be nice if the majority of those items were ironed out PRIOR to selling people equipment. Though, that's apparently not always possible, whether its gear, software, or any other thing.

 

I like the parts of the 'dream rig' that I use, and I ignore the parts I can't make sound right.

 

I have ProTools11 + and Eleven Rack on the way from SweetWater, it should arrive Monday. I am psyched to get moved into my new house, and maybe by the end of March will actually have time to sit down with everything and do some recording, tone comparison, re-amping, and all kinds of cool stuff.

 

From people who gig regularly's point of view, I can see what you are talking about. There is a big difference between hauling gear to and from gigs, and rehearsal rooms, vs just having it set up in a studio environment. Tubes will fail, things will get loose, and repairs will be needed. It would be awesome if L6 created a product line aimed at that type of rigor

 

Stage Worthy vs just Studio Worthy.

 

I guess I am glad the AMPLIFi isn't up my alley, that money went to the ProTools purchase. So I can record some awesome music, compose, write, and experiement with new sounds and new musical ideas. Learn new songs, and enjoy being a musician again, even if it's only in my own time, or in casual jams with friends.

 

When I gigged alot, lollipop happened! That would be a great shirt, BTW. I mean, I have a crystal clear recording of our guitarists Mesa Boogie MKIV frying a tube mid song; while we had him mic'd up loud and clear through the main mix. What a horrible sound.... It was awesome that it WASN'T ME making that noise, I tell ya. But we swapped the rhy guitarist to a direct DI, gave his amp to the lead player who just tanked his Mesa Boogie, and on the show went five minutes later.

 

I think there is a fine line between expecting reasonable performance from gear, vs "hoping it works right each time". In this case, I side with those who would like more consistency from Line 6, in terms of how, when, why and what - the causes of problems, the source of solutions.

 

You shouldn't need an on-call gear tech, but most of the actual pros have just that. Amp tech, guitar tech, etc. It would be nice if the things that work at home work at the gig, though that's not always the case.

 

Things like AMPFLIFi are - to me - a bit of a distraction. It's like they need to distinguish between "pro" gear, "studio" gear, "gigging" gear, "touring" gear, and then fun gadgets like AMPLiFi.

 

AMpLiFi is awesome, what a cool idea! But, it's full of glitches right out the gate, and compared to the DT series or even the HD, it's not particularly equivalent. I am reading people being frustrated trying to dial in tones, or even interface with the gear without using the third party IOS / Android stuff.

 

And I get where they are going. CLOUD based everything these days. Ever since the Supreme Court refused to hear that Cablevision lawsuit, the floodgates opened. I see ads for cell phone now offering cloud storage. I see the Comcast X1 and soon to be X2 DVR platform. They will soon have DVR services, where you record the shows and watch them on ANY device, in home or out. Record the Grammy's or Oscars on the DVR service, and watch them on the train to work on your iPad the next day.

 

AMPLIFI is that mode of thought. Your tones are not stored on the device, they are saved in the CLOUD.

 

How that translates to working / gigging / professional musicians, is something that remains to be seen. The AMPLIFI would be stellar if it had "X,Y,Z" was the mode of critique that consumed my thought process.

 

But even the $2,000+ StageScape mixers and L2/L3 speaker systems have their fair share of problems with crashing, etc. Perhaps a more thourough testing period should be included, as preclusion to sales to the general public. Maybe a less trigger happy Marketing Team, concerned with sales and figures, being balanced by more stringent application of testing, revision and quality control.

 

I for one would definitely rather wait to buy something that is done right the FIRST time, over waiting with baited breath for the "somewhere down the road" firmware update that may or may not solve particular issues. God Bless China, but perhaps we need some product fabrication a little closer to home.

 

A good example of this 'half-baked' approach is the AMPLIFi app and the unused USB port, and the "to be released later" MANUAL. Who does that? Not gigging musicians. Not professionals. People who want to SELL and meet DEADLINES. That's who. Big missed opportunity just to make it in time for NAMM 2014. But this isn't endemic to Line6 alone.

 

Back in my younger days, I played a game on the Apple called "Ultima IV". Recently, a "freemium" / "pay to play" type version of this game was launched. It only works on the newer IOS devices, despite OVERWHELMING demand for Android and PC versions. It's STILL not available on Android or WIndows, well over a year into the release of 'Ultima Forever'. They nickel and dime you for little add ons here there and everywhere. The game still crashes for people, it's a trainwreck.

 

I realize Line6 at some point - with the release of the X3 series, dumped that idea. They used to sell all those little expansions packs for the XT and whatnot. Now, they just sell you the gear, then you wait for firmware updates, which are FREE, to finally correct initial release problems.

 

Makes me think "reverse mortgage".

 

Now, only time will tell. I don't linger long on the negative these days. Anything that gets me exploring music I see as positive, even if it's not 100% perfect. Music affirms Life, and if you want to save your Life from the demons that will come along, embrace music. It will get you through the worst life has to toss at you. Winston Churchill said:

 

"It was the nation and the race dwelling all round the globe that had the lion’s heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar.”

 

and:

 

"If You are Going Through Hell; Keep Going."


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"Searching for a distant star, Heading off to Iscandar

Leaving all we love behind, Who knows what dangers we'll find?"


#11 Tboneous

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

Fine words! Truth be in that narrative! But....I've played through all kinds of amps, tubes to solid state. Never has an amp been so intermittent! I actually had a line 6 dude try to explain away my amp issues by telling me "well you know, this is a tube amp and tube amps can be temperamental." That is a crock of sugar honey iced Tea! I repeat...Never have I ever owned an amp so intermittent! I don't believe that there is a fine line at all between an expectation that my brand new gear should work when I turn it on and reasonable performance. The two issues shouldn't be fine line close at all. There should be a grand valley between the two. Line 6 didn't advertise the dream rig components as something that would perform reasonably well. They said this is their flagship rig that is going to change the way we play guitar!

That is a mighty fine assertion! I would opt for it to turn on and work!

I stay hopeful that it will all jell soon. But for now, If I have an important gig to do, I don't bring it. How screwed up is that! That is not how it should be at all. It makes it very hard to stay positive. And I whole heatedly agree that we need to spend more time in the positive and not the negative. But when I take the stage and there are 500 people waiting to hear me do my thing and I got my swagger on and pick up the guitar listen for the drum cue and punch that first chord and nothing happens after it seemed to happen alright at sound check...my blood boils I loose my swagger and I am reduced to the schmuck that bought Line 6 gear.

And I had far greater hopes than that when I decided to purchase a JTV HD and DT50
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#12 smrybacki

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:13 PM

But really, isn't Line6 acting pretty much like most American businesses these days?  I could make a list, but if you think about how many times you've walked away from an interaction with some business somewhere thinking "that person acted like they were doing me a favor by helping me", you know what I mean.  From fast food to utility companies to mega huge conglomerates to discount super stores, it's a lot the same.

 

So what can we do?  Vote with our wallets, even if it initially means purchasing a lesser product or paying more for a product.  That right there I just said is tough, but if you really want to get a company's attention, stop buying their marketing BS and products along with it and be vocal about why.  As I sit here typing this, there are three distinct Line6 products I could and probably would buy right now, or at least two of them.  Those would be the M13, the DT25 and/or a pair of Stage Source speakers  I can afford them in cash, no problem. I am in my fifties and my kids are grown and gone and I have solid employment.  Why don'y I buy them?  Because Line6 has all but disappeared right now for whatever reasons and I feel like support of any kind may be iffy at best.  Not firmware updates you understand -- I feel like any/all of those are gravy myself.  But honest to gosh support should my digital product fail.  I worked many years on electronics in the Air Force, including tube amps and I do my own luthier work so I need no help at all in the analog world.  That all changes in the digital world, even though I understand it operationally.  I simply don't have the means nor does Line6 provide even so much as a block diagram of their inner workings.  But I digress at this point.

So hey folks, I understand you vitriol and frustration, but unless you are willing to move elsewhere in terms of money spent em mass, this will always be this way.  Mom and dad's wallet will always be open to keep our moody 16 year old kids reasonably happy, but make no mistake -- we are the grease the keeps the wheels running.


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#13 Tboneous

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:15 PM

But really, isn't Line6 acting pretty much like most American businesses these days?  I could make a list, but if you think about how many times you've walked away from an interaction with some business somewhere thinking "that person acted like they were doing me a favor by helping me", you know what I mean.  From fast food to utility companies to mega huge conglomerates to discount super stores, it's a lot the same.

 

So what can we do?  Vote with our wallets, even if it initially means purchasing a lesser product or paying more for a product.  That right there I just said is tough, but if you really want to get a company's attention, stop buying their marketing BS and products along with it and be vocal about why.  As I sit here typing this, there are three distinct Line6 products I could and probably would buy right now, or at least two of them.  Those would be the M13, the DT25 and/or a pair of Stage Source speakers  I can afford them in cash, no problem. I am in my fifties and my kids are grown and gone and I have solid employment.  Why don'y I buy them?  Because Line6 has all but disappeared right now for whatever reasons and I feel like support of any kind may be iffy at best.  Not firmware updates you understand -- I feel like any/all of those are gravy myself.  But honest to gosh support should my digital product fail.  I worked many years on electronics in the Air Force, including tube amps and I do my own luthier work so I need no help at all in the analog world.  That all changes in the digital world, even though I understand it operationally.  I simply don't have the means nor does Line6 provide even so much as a block diagram of their inner workings.  But I digress at this point.

So hey folks, I understand you vitriol and frustration, but unless you are willing to move elsewhere in terms of money spent em mass, this will always be this way.  Mom and dad's wallet will always be open to keep our moody 16 year old kids reasonably happy, but make no mistake -- we are the grease the keeps the wheels running.

Good post. Problem is, I already spent the money! The gear is hear! Yes… I may do something different in the future, but it doesn't address the now for many people! I am an optimist at heart. I believe that Line 6 is a company that has it's heart in the right place. When I contacted them, they were Johnny on the spot on the phone. They told me that if I was a bit out of warrantee range, not to worry, they would make it right. No… I didn't want to pay for shipping but I get it that they are a company that needs to make money and can't pay for everyones shipping at the drop of a hat. If they do they will go under and, as a wise woman once said…Ain't Nobody Got Time For That!

 

I need them to stay functioning! So they can help me get my butt back on stage with a rig that works! PERIOD! 

 

Make it happen Line 6 PEOPLE!

 

My ramblings are not about the company per se, but really are about the frustrations that I experience as a working musician. I need to be able to count on my gear to make a living. 


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#14 tim1953

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

The HD 500 and the Variax are cool ideas that when they work properly they sound pretty good.

Problem is they both are buggy and a pro can't trust them in front of 20,000 plus fans night after night and that's why you very rarely see them on stage - never mind the fact that they don't sound as good as the real thing.

The Variax since the first models have had Piezo problems that cause weird tracking issues.

I also have had the Variax change patches on me during a performance.

Going from open G tuning back to standard tuning was not cool and I felt like a lollipop when it happened.

Sometimes the Variax just stops working.

Unplugging and plugging it back in usually fixes the problem but it resets to a default sound.

Same thing with the HD 500 sometimes it just stops working and you have to reboot it.

It's computer glitches that a musician doesn't have time to deal with on stage.

If a tube goes down on stage it's an easy fix most of the time.

To be honest I've played thousands of gigs using tube amps for 40 years and have only had 2 amps go down on me during a show.

One was a 60s Fender blackface Showman amp that caught on fire - which looked cool and the crowd got to see it.

The other was a 60s Fender Bandmaster that lost a power tube.

I just don't have very much confidence in digital gear when it comes to playing live.

Same way with a lot of the digital keyboard stuff.

I worry nightly that the stuff might screw up on me and ruin the show.

True - anything can blow up - but the digital stuff is more likely to let you down.

Rebooting 3 or 4 times a night is not cool and not something I'm willing to do.


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#15 Tboneous

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:10 PM

The HD 500 and the Variax are cool ideas that when they work properly they sound pretty good.

Problem is they both are buggy and a pro can't trust them in front of 20,000 plus fans night after night and that's why you very rarely see them on stage - never mind the fact that they don't sound as good as the real thing.

The Variax since the first models have had Piezo problems that cause weird tracking issues.

I also have had the Variax change patches on me during a performance.

Going from open G tuning back to standard tuning was not cool and I felt like a lollipop when it happened.

Sometimes the Variax just stops working.

Unplugging and plugging it back in usually fixes the problem but it resets to a default sound.

Same thing with the HD 500 sometimes it just stops working and you have to reboot it.

It's computer glitches that a musician doesn't have time to deal with on stage.

If a tube goes down on stage it's an easy fix most of the time.

To be honest I've played thousands of gigs using tube amps for 40 years and have only had 2 amps go down on me during a show.

One was a 60s Fender blackface Showman amp that caught on fire - which looked cool and the crowd got to see it.

The other was a 60s Fender Bandmaster that lost a power tube.

I just don't have very much confidence in digital gear when it comes to playing live.

Same way with a lot of the digital keyboard stuff.

I worry nightly that the stuff might screw up on me and ruin the show.

True - anything can blow up - but the digital stuff is more likely to let you down.

Rebooting 3 or 4 times a night is not cool and not something I'm willing to do.

EXACTLY! So, with that said… maybe Line 6 should bow out of the "we want to be a contender in the world of pro players" and go back to marketing to bedroom beginners who like to rock out to Master of Puppets! Not that there is anthing wrong with that. Line 6 does a good job with that. But it insults my intelligence to have a Line 6 tech tell me that my issues with my DT50 are solely due to the temperamental nature of tube amps! Who do they think they are talking to? OR….They can pull it together and live up to their self imposed hype. Seeing as how I always root for the under dog in prize fights and super bowls, I am hoping and praying that line 6 pulls it together and knocks my socks off! I would be proud to walk into a jam session with a bunch of pompous boutique amp owning so and so's with my $1000 Line 6 amp and have them say "Damn that amp sounds good!" as opposed to what they say now….."dude….What's up with your amp? Why are all the lights on with no sound?….Ohhhh, its a Line 6. Hey bro, I think I have a REAL amp you can borrow since your junk ain't working!"

 

It is humiliating and embarrassing.


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#16 scheater5

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

The problem with Line 6 "bowing out" is that there is no one else doing what the Variax can do.  It could literally be a game changer, and I'm jonesing after one - but until Line 6 earns some trust again, they don't get my money.  I am voting with my wallet.

 

There was some concern about the DSP limits on the HD500 that were somewhat alleviated by the 500X.  But the simple (and often overlooked) solution to that is to just buy two HD500s and link them via Midi.  Instant double DSP.  Which I would do in a heartbeat...if Line 6 fixed the long outstanding bugs.  For me, it's not a matter of gear I already own - it's about gear I might own in the future.  I'm literally voting with my wallet - and greener pastures look very good right now.


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#17 Tboneous

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:03 PM

The problem with Line 6 "bowing out" is that there is no one else doing what the Variax can do.  It could literally be a game changer, and I'm jonesing after one - but until Line 6 earns some trust again, they don't get my money.  I am voting with my wallet.

 

There was some concern about the DSP limits on the HD500 that were somewhat alleviated by the 500X.  But the simple (and often overlooked) solution to that is to just buy two HD500s and link them via Midi.  Instant double DSP.  Which I would do in a heartbeat...if Line 6 fixed the long outstanding bugs.  For me, it's not a matter of gear I already own - it's about gear I might own in the future.  I'm literally voting with my wallet - and greener pastures look very good right now.

I hear ya! You and I are just in different positions. I already sprang for the full Monty. That's how I roll. If I like something, I get the top of the line. I go all in.  Sure I will think twice about purchasing the new DT50X or what ever they decide to call the next generation of DT amps but that doesn't help those of us who have "gone for it". My dollar vote has been cast and now I am stuck with it! If I could get my money back, I would! But I can't so all I am left with is ranting on this forum and secretly hoping and praying that they deliver a rig that consistently works, consistently sounds good, brings that new technology to the working musician that is reliable and awesome! I want to represent to the world that Line 6 has a line of gear that is worth taking a serious look at. At this point, I wouldn't recommend the Dream Rig. But I am willing, even now, to change that. Because I don't want to look like a fool who went "all out" on gear that historically has been geared to non pro players. 

 

The part that is most frustrating is my rig sounds Fabulous when it works! My guitar is awesome. The HD sounds great in the studio and live. Even my on again off again DT50 2x12 sounds great. It really could be a dream rig. I will wait. Hopefully the fix it shop can deliver me something that a working musician can use. If they do, I'll sing the praises of Line 6 twice as diligently as I have expressed my frustrations. Hell, I'll even put the Line 6 logo back on the front of the amp and buy a T-Shirt and ball cap!


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#18 tim1953

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:11 PM

  But the simple (and often overlooked) solution to that is to just buy two HD500s and link them via Midi.  Instant double DSP.

 

Oh great 2 HD 500s screwing up at the same time... :rolleyes:

No thanks on that one.


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#19 scheater5

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

Oh great 2 HD 500s screwing up at the same time... :rolleyes:

No thanks on that one.

 

The only problem I've had with my HD500 is the occasional bug I mentioned several posts ago - every once in a blue moon it outputs random noise, and it is resolved by a reboot every time.  I have had many, many gigs in all kinds of situations without my a problem from my pod.  And I have to have some faith in it - it is literally my entire rig.  Guitar - HD500 - FOH.  So I would not be afraid to link two HD500s and step on stage in front of people.

 

But Line 6 apparently doesn't have any faith in it.  And that means neither does will my wallet in the future. The difference between the potential and the reality of this gear is....saddening.

 

I'm still here, Line 6 - hoping you're listening.  Fractal is.  Kemper is.  Are you?


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#20 tim1953

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:36 PM

The only problem I've had with my HD500 is the occasional bug I mentioned several posts ago - every once in a blue moon it outputs random noise, and it is resolved by a reboot every time.  I have had many, many gigs in all kinds of situations without my a problem from my pod.  And I have to have some faith in it - it is literally my entire rig.  Guitar - HD500 - FOH.  So I would not be afraid to link two HD500s and step on stage in front of people.

 

But Line 6 apparently doesn't have any faith in it.  And that means neither does will my wallet in the future. The difference between the potential and the reality of this gear is....saddening.

 

I'm still here, Line 6 - hoping you're listening.  Fractal is.  Kemper is.  Are you?

I've had some nights that the HD 500, Variax & Relay Wireless worked well and just when I started to feel comfortable with it one of them would F!@  up again.

One show where I was patched directly into the front of the house the volume just kept dropping until I could not hear what I was playing - I rebooted and it fixed it.

I had to get on my hands and knees with the crowd watching reaching to pull out the wall wart and plug it back in (thanks Line 6 for not including an on/off switch).

And when you turn it back on it pops through the sound system.

I just can't take those computer style digital glitches that happen when you least expect it.

My motto has become give a computer the chance and it will F!@ you every time.


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#21 jandrio

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:43 AM

...I just can't take those computer style digital glitches that happen when you least expect it.

My motto has become give a computer the chance and it will F!@ you every time.

 

Murphy's law or the ...fourth law of thermodynamics" (actually there were only three last I heard) states: "If anything can go wrong, it will".

 

+1 to tim1953


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#22 Tboneous

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:26 AM

I've got a computer with a pretty nasty virus that functions more consistently. I can deal with rebooting in the studio. It is just unacceptable to have to reboot onstage. Can you imagine Robben Ford scrambling around on stage troubleshooting why no sound is coming out of his amp while in the middle of his show? How long do you think a guitarist is going to keep a good paying gig with a popular working band if he/she is rebooting every set? I may be auditioning for a Tower of Power guitar slot soon. If I get this audition, Ya think I'm bringing my "Dream Rig"? Hells No! Not until I can do 100 shows problem free!

No more excuses! I don't want to hear about how computers are glitchy or that tube amps are temperamental or how if I buy this power do-hickey or that attenuating widget it will make my gear behave! The gear should behave because it is thoughtfully crafted, meticulously tested and held to the highest standard of quality control!

Is that really too much to ask from a companies "top of the line" "flagship" gear?
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#23 jandrio

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 11:50 AM

It is a sound idea to always "double" ur gear for the live shows.

Back in the 70's all guitarists had backup amps/guitars, just in case a component of their main rig failed.

Nowadays it's is much easier (2 HD500's, 2 JTV;s), XLR connection to PA and double set-lists (one for the DT and the other for direct output to FOH)


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#24 Tboneous

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:58 PM

It is a sound idea to always "double" ur gear for the live shows.
Back in the 70's all guitarists had backup amps/guitars, just in case a component of their main rig failed.
Nowadays it's is much easier (2 HD500's, 2 JTV;s), XLR connection to PA and double set-lists (one for the DT and the other for direct output to FOH)

I always have back up. You are righ about that. I don't think that my main rig should have this many problems. Or else it is not my main rig and is just a heavy consumer of stage space.
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#25 Tboneous

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:34 AM

There was a thread titled "Say something Line 6"

It disappeared. What happened?
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#26 jandrio

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:33 AM

Copying from my e-mail notifications, the topic can (?) be found here:

http://line6.com/sup...view=getnewpost

But this link does not work (No permission to view this topic).
Last notification arrived @Friday, March 7, 2014 10:46 PM by phil_m.

Attached Files


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#27 gunpointmetal

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:16 AM

everybody got their undies in a bundle 'cause their internet feelings got hurt.


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#28 tim1953

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:48 AM

There was a thread titled "Say something Line 6"

It disappeared. What happened?

The government took it down :o :o :o :o :o


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#29 Tboneous

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:33 PM

The government took it down :o :o :o :o :o

The gubment took it down for a reason. I didn't see why the gubment took it down but I bet I can make a good guess. A bunch of disgruntled line 6'ers started hurling insults at those who dared to express an opinion contrary to the prevalent talking point. I've seen it all to often on this forum and have personally razor bladed that line myself. You can participate on this forum and write off people as being a shill of Line 6 if you want to, but it doesn't help those who are looking for valid, timely info that will help them make a sound purchasing decision.

 

Is it asking too much to say that hurling insults and nastiness at one another is not the way we as fellow Line 6'ers/musicians/guitarists should interact?

 

FYI- Participate here long enough, and you too can be labeled an expert guru! They don't have super powers. They are musicians/guitarist/humans with a perspective. Take it or leave it!  If I hurled an insult at everyone who didn't share a similar perspective as mine then I would live in a constant state of blah!!!

 

...and as I am fond of saying..."Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

Let's stay positive! Let's stay in MUSIC!... You too Line 6!


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#30 gunpointmetal

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:27 AM

I'm gonna hold out through the end of the year in hopes that Yamaha will try and straighten this company out a little, but if not, or if they continue down the road of focusing on overpriced PA equipment (although the M20D is pretty awesome for the coin) and overpriced home stereo equipment, I'll probably migrate somewhere else. 

 

EDIT: I think this fits here: Boss Actually Did a Firmware Update to a Floor Pedal (and it appears useful; reamping, guitar to MIDI, added Terra Echo, Orange Sim).


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#31 smrybacki

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:32 AM

I figure I have all the digital gear I need because I am not a pro musician.  I also have a minor analog pedal habit I'll likely never break, but I digress.  I have flirted with the idea of completing the "Dream Rig", already having a JTV59 and POD HD 500 but honestly the pair of Power Engines I have now are fine really.  I bought this stuff because I love the IDEA of being able to try new and different sounds at a whim, and I never truly expected any digital modeller to sound exactly like the amps they are trying to model.  To me, that is simply unrealistic.  I have a Deluxe Reverb and had a 59 Bassman and trust me, they don't sound anything like the models.  But that isn't to say the models suck either.

In the end, this community is pretty cool and the Line6 gear I have suits my purposes.  I do wish Line6 would continue to try and innovate, but lets face it; Tube amps and analog pedals aren't going anywhere anytime soon, which makes the digital market less by subtraction from the total pool of current guitar players.  And if you think about it, the younger (and new) players are more likely to use digital gear, including iPads and iPhones than older ones, and those younger players are fine with products like AmpliFi.  Line6 is probably thinking about this a lot really, and the "potential" for future sales lies in this demographic (14-35 year olds) who are comfortable with digital in all it's forms and don't necessarily have a long standing love affair with tube gear.  Line6 ultimately wants to sell gear and I think that is why we are seeing products like AmpliFi now.  Why hell, I can remember when Apple was a washed up second rate computer company until they reinvented themselves as a consumer electronics outfit with iPods and iPhones and iPads.

And now, I'm rambling a bit, so done.


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#32 gunpointmetal

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:34 AM

I really hope 20 years from now I'm not going to see bands play through home stereos.....


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#33 smrybacki

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:46 AM

I really hope 20 years from now I'm not going to see bands play through home stereos.....

You might just see that.  In 20 years, those 14 year olds just starting will make the rules.


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#34 tim1953

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:46 AM

You might just see that.  In 20 years, those 14 year olds just starting will make the rules.

And for the sake of the quality of audio, music and guitar sounds let's hope they learn how to listen so they can know for themselves the difference between good and bad sound - MP3s and three inch speakers should not be the benchmark by which you judge audio.


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#35 Mr_Arkadin

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:27 AM

And for the sake of the quality of audio, music and guitar sounds let's hope they learn how to listen so they can know for themselves the difference between good and bad sound - MP3s and three inch speakers should not be the benchmark by which you judge audio.

 

On that we can most definitely agree.

 

I long for the '70s and '80s when everyone was trying to get larger hi-fis. Now it's all about docking stations. Someone should explain the physics of bass frequencies to these kids - but they seem happy to sit at the back of a bus with their smartphone speaker sounding like a cricket trapped in a jar.


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#36 smrybacki

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:51 AM

On that we can most definitely agree.

 

I long for the '70s and '80s when everyone was trying to get larger hi-fis. Now it's all about docking stations. Someone should explain the physics of bass frequencies to these kids - but they seem happy to sit at the back of a bus with their smartphone speaker sounding like a cricket trapped in a jar.

But sadly, they probably won't. 

When I was a kid, my parents had a Hi-Fi setup with tube amplifiers, a turntable and a pair of 2 way speakers.  It sounded awesome.  Then, along came solid state...then CDs, doing away with that warm analog sound I grew up with.  But against the expense of maintaining tube gear and turtables, not to mention finding vinyl albums, you just get used to the "new" way things sound.  Now we have the iPod generation with Beats audio headphones, and Bose has for years made tiny little speakers supplemented by a not much larger subwoofer.  In live music, iPads (and laptops for even longer now) are commonly on stage.  Full range systems are more and more "normal, replacing massive back lines of Marshall Stacks or fender Twin towers.  Wireless adds to the fundamental change in how we (the audience) hear and perceive our musical experience.

I guess what I am saying is this; Today's young people, just starting out playing know nothing in the way us older dogs know it.  For them, tiny little speakers with what we consider sub par sound are normal.  And an AmpliFi will just be what there is -- and without ever having seen or played through a real tube amp in many cases, they won't know the difference.  I remember feeling that way about solid state receivers replacing MacIntosh tube amps and preamps with a separate tuner.  *sniff*

And so it goes.

Feel lucky guys...at least we got to hear how great audio and guitar tone started even if we can't imagine where it will end.


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#37 Mr_Arkadin

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:19 AM

For them, tiny little speakers with what we consider sub par sound are normal.  And an AmpliFi will just be what there is -- and without ever having seen or played through a real tube amp in many cases, they won't know the difference. 

 

I'm with you up to that point. There was no way I could afford a valve amp when I started guitar and had some awful amps - the high point was a solid state Peavey ffs. I actually think that the AmpliFi will sound infinitely better than anything I had back then and of course has at least proper size speakers. Sure it's not a valve amp but it'll be bigger and better sounding than my old SS '80s amps for sure. It all depends on whether they are prepared to explore past that once they have the taste for tone.


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#38 WaubinHood

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

Guess it's been similar to all of us. As brats, we just had to play with what we could afford. However. The younger you are, the better gear you get to start with. People in their 40's, 50's know what it was to get really bad gear. These days everyone can afford a Spider, which beats 100-1 that old transistor bass amp i started with. I believe my 1st real amp was Yamaha JX50.

 

This leads me to another issue. Vintage amp collectors keep telling us, that in old days everything was better. Like the best amp ever was made in 30's and they got worse after that. Sad truth is, that most old amps were and still are - if they exist - pure crap. There are very few real classics. Happier part of truth is, whe do have generally better gear than all great names of rock&roll&blues&jazz.

 

(why don't i sound better then?)

 

Today, with modeling gear, we have better tools tan ever. Actually tools are too good. Big enough to malke quite a lot of users lose their way with them. They don't get how to use these and get cranky. And next thing we have, is 19 threads of how mean people are in Line6 cause of not doing this and that.

 

Just out of curiosity: How many HD500 units have already been sold? Anyone? Or is it classified?

 

I bet quite a few. And in silence those thousands are way happier with their gear, than some 10 people starting endless amounts of Line6didn'tdowhatitold-threads.


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#39 Brazzy

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:58 PM

Guess it's been similar to all of us. As brats, we just had to play with what we could afford. However. The younger you are, the better gear you get to start with. People in their 40's, 50's know what it was to get really bad gear. These days everyone can afford a Spider, which beats 100-1 that old transistor bass amp i started with. I believe my 1st real amp was Yamaha JX50.

 

This leads me to another issue. Vintage amp collectors keep telling us, that in old days everything was better. Like the best amp ever was made in 30's and they got worse after that. Sad truth is, that most old amps were and still are - if they exist - pure crap. There are very few real classics. Happier part of truth is, whe do have generally better gear than all great names of rock&roll&blues&jazz.

 

(why don't i sound better then?)

 

Today, with modeling gear, we have better tools tan ever. Actually tools are too good. Big enough to malke quite a lot of users lose their way with them. They don't get how to use these and get cranky. And next thing we have, is 19 threads of how mean people are in Line6 cause of not doing this and that.

 

Just out of curiosity: How many HD500 units have already been sold? Anyone? Or is it classified?

 

I bet quite a few. And in silence those thousands are way happier with their gear, than some 10 people starting endless amounts of Line6didn'tdowhatitold-threads.

 

I agree, I'm one of those people that never had the money to buy any gear so therefore I never learned early in life. Now I'm taking the time to learn and with this gear I'm very happy to learn with. I'm progressing slowly and having fun doing it.


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I mostly play at home  and am always having fun learning how to play guitar so when I post a reply to try and help give ideas you know where I'm coming from. Rock-On!! Oh, and if I don't respond promptly I'm probably playing guitar or my computer locked up from multitasking 'cause I'm using Gear Box, HD500 Edit, Audacity and tab filled browsers all at the same time, Hahahaaaa. Surprisingly enough my 'puter handles the load more times than not. Lastly I'm not a salesman, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything here. "Riffcasts Riffworld" "RiffRumble Entry" "Shifftie" "M.O.S.U.A Two" "Bass Catszz" "Blasted Runtime Error I" "Match 30" "The Playlist"
 

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#40 smrybacki

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:32 AM

I'm with you up to that point. There was no way I could afford a valve amp when I started guitar and had some awful amps - the high point was a solid state Peavey ffs. I actually think that the AmpliFi will sound infinitely better than anything I had back then and of course has at least proper size speakers. Sure it's not a valve amp but it'll be bigger and better sounding than my old SS '80s amps for sure. It all depends on whether they are prepared to explore past that once they have the taste for tone.

When I started, all there was were valve amps lol...I started with a Sears Wishbook special outfit in 1970 after 3 years of a nylon string acoustic....


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