Jump to content


Photo

Jtv 89-f Model Sound Issue


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

I have a Jtv 89-F and i have a problem with the model sounds. 

 

When i play with the magnetic pickups the guitar sounds fantastic but when i activate the modeling, i hear a weird noise while playing, especially very loud on the 6th string, sounds like clanging. 

 

It doesn't do it on the acoustic models but even on its own modeling (own jtv 89-f guitar model in custom bank) and very very hearable on the lester models, the gain slightly lowers and it clangs.

 

I tried to lower the string volumes on editing program but nothing has changed.. 

 

I don't think it's about a hardware problem because it doesn't do on the acoustics but its very bad on electric guitar modelings especially for a player like me love to play really high gain tones with my podhd 500. 

 

I will be very glad if you know any solutions to fix this problem.


  • 0

#2 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1166 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:07 PM

It should not do that!  There is something wrong if it does.


  • 0

#3 stevekc

stevekc

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 276 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

 

 

 i hear a weird noise while playing, especially very loud on the 6th string, sounds like clanging. 

Post an audio file (MP3,Wav,etc) which demonstrates these sounds you are hearing.


  • 0

#4 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:34 PM

the sound problem is exactly same with the one on this topic. There is a sound clip and on the second part you can hear the noise.

 

http://line6.com/sup...-mute-chugging/


  • 0

#5 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:03 AM

I have this exact problem as well. I made recordings through the Pod HD500 using a simple JCM patch. The first is with modeling, the second with mag pickups. The other thing I notice is that certain models like the custom bank 1 is very noisy. You can hear swirly digital artifacts when the strings are muted. Please note that these problems are really only noticeable with there is distortion. It's quite annoying to me. I'm not sure everyone can here the clangy, scratchy mechanical noise. Please let me know what you guys hear.

 

Lester JCM
 

Mags JCM

Thanks,
 
ice9mike


  • 0

#6 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:56 AM

I have this exact problem as well. I made recordings through the Pod HD500 using a simple JCM patch. The first is with modeling, the second with mag pickups. The other thing I notice is that certain models like the custom bank 1 is very noisy. You can hear swirly digital artifacts when the strings are muted. Please note that these problems are really only noticeable with there is distortion. It's quite annoying to me. I'm not sure everyone can here the clangy, scratchy mechanical noise. Please let me know what you guys hear.
 
Lester JCM
 
Mags JCM

Thanks,
 
ice9mike


Thats the piezo curse. They are ultra sensitive as compared to mag pickups. Any accidental noises/vibrations will be picked up. Try using something to dampen vibrations behind the nut (I use a thin piece of grey foam cut from an air filter element) Also, the typical way you are used to palm muting with high gain can be an issue sometimes. Might require a lighter attack (perhaps a thinner pick), or positioning your picking hand slightly differently that you're used to. Try turning down the global string volume in workbench also, as it has worked for quite a few people.
  • 1

#7 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:35 AM

i tried to lower the global string volume and tried lowering single string, tried picking lighter and changing the position of picking hand but no difference..

 

If the piezos are sensitive, why lighter picking still sounds the same.

 

And i noticed that in lester model on 5th switch position it sounds way better but the other lester models, custom1, spank, tmodel are really bad.

 

I am really confused but i can't be sure if it's about hardware or software problem and the service doesn't know well about how the guitar should sound...

 

And yes i reinstalled the firmware couple times.


  • 0

#8 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:21 AM

I have also tried lowering the global string volume. It helps a bit but at the sacrifice of balancing with the other string volumes.

 

The problem is limited to the 6th "E" string. I tried moving the 5th string piezo input to the 6th string input and the noise was then present on the 5th "A" string. That eliminates the piezo element. I think it is a software or PCA hardware issue. I sent my guitar to Line 6 and they said nothing was wrong with it. I agree that this is a specific case of a weird noise, but it really limits the style and how I play.


  • 0

#9 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:04 PM

I tried moving the 5th string piezo input to the 6th string input and the noise was then present on the 5th "A" string. That eliminates the piezo element.

 

I'm confused...what exactly did you do? If you swapped the piezo elements between the 5th and 6th string saddles, and the noise followed the piezo, then it seems to me that the piezo element is the problem.


  • 0

#10 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1166 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

The problem followed the piezo from your explanation.  I suspect you have a bad piezo element.


  • 0

#11 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:36 PM

The noise stayed with the input. Let me explain. Swapping the 5th and 6th string piezo cables resulted in the noise moving to the 5th string. I may have not explained it very well before.


  • 0

#12 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:50 PM

The noise stayed with the input. Let me explain. Swapping the 5th and 6th string piezo cables resulted in the noise moving to the 5th string. I may have not explained it very well before.

 

Still not getting it.  Exactly how much surgery did you do? Where did you have the leads connected? Did you leave the piezos in place, and swap the wires, or did you solder the 6th string piezo to the 5th string input on the board, and vice versa? Seems like that would create a whole host of problems aside from the dreaded "plink". Maybe it's me, but I'm having trouble picturing exactly what you did.


  • 0

#13 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:56 PM

The piezo elements have individual wires that run through the baseplate of the bridge and into the control cavity. They terminate in a small 2 pin female connector. Each 2 pin connector is then attached to a male receptacle on the PCA. It is very easy to swap the connectors at this location. No soldering is needed. This does not create any problems because you can just swap back the original position.


  • 0

#14 stevekc

stevekc

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 276 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:24 PM

 

 

The noise stayed with the input. Let me explain. Swapping the 5th and 6th string piezo cables resulted in the noise moving to the 5th string. I may have not explained it very well before.

 

Then applying logic, I would suggest you have a poor Piezo Saddle and should seek a replacement  


  • 0

#15 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:50 PM

When I swapped the inputs cables the 6th string sounded normal. The noise moved to the 5th string. That tells me it is not a piezo issue. It's a software/hardware issue with the PCA.


  • 0

#16 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1166 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:41 PM

No.  If the noise moved when you swapped cables, then the noise is before the cables - at the bridge / piezo.


  • 0

#17 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:05 PM

let me draw you a diagram:

 

6th string piezo -----------> input 6 = noise on 6th string

5th string piezo -----------> input 5 = no noise on 5th string

 

6th string piezo -----------> input 5 = no noise on 6th string

5th string piezo -----------> input 6 = noise on 5th string

 

If it was a bad piezo on the 6th string it would always have the noise no matter where I plugged the piezo cable in.


  • 0

#18 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:56 PM

No. If the noise moved when you swapped cables, then the noise is before the cables - at the bridge / piezo.


I got it now...I didn't understand what he was saying at first. And I'm the farthest thing from an engineer there is, but if he's saying the noise moves when the cables are swapped, doesn't the problem have to be the cable itself then? I misunderstood initially..I thought he was moving the piezo elements from one saddle to the other, but from the last post it seems that they stayed put. Apparently itvs possible to leave the elements where they are and just swap out connectors between the circuit board fixed to the front of the sustain blockand the main board inside the cavity. He just moved the leads around.
  • 0

#19 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:09 PM

The piezo elements have individual wires that run through the baseplate of the bridge and into the control cavity. They terminate in a small 2 pin female connector. Each 2 pin connector is then attached to a male receptacle on the PCA. It is very easy to swap the connectors at this location. No soldering is needed. This does not create any problems because you can just swap back the original position.

The piezo elements have individual wires that run through the baseplate of the bridge and into the control cavity. They terminate in a small 2 pin female connector. Each 2 pin connector is then attached to a male receptacle on the PCA. It is very easy to swap the connectors at this location. No soldering is needed. This does not create any problems because you can just swap back the original position.


ok...I understand now. Had no idea how the connections were made. So it seems that perhaps just that one wire is the problem then. If the noise follows wherever you connect that wire, then that at least solves the mystery. Its the same logic that rules out the piezo itself. You might be able to fix the whole thing for 2 bucks at Radio Shack. Why couldnt it be as simple as that? Worth a try anyway for a few inches of wire.
  • 0

#20 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1166 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:46 PM

OK.  I was confused by your post.  You are right.  Problem is not Piezo.  Sounds like you have a noisy channel in the main board. 


  • 0

#21 sP00f

sP00f

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

After hearing the mp3, that is exactly what I have heard on my JTV 89F too. Only when you have a heavy metal tone. I'm trying to remember if I just lowered the 6th string in the hd workbench, or adjusted the pickup impedance setting. As I understand it, a lower impedance setting has less dynamic range no? I'll have to check again, as I have not used the jtv on my hd100 mkii that I use for band recently.

I don't notice it through the hd500x, on a dual tread plate Metallica type tone, but that's just going through headphones while I'm setting up, (just got it) so who knows. Ehh, I'm starting to get the feeling, nothing gets done to fix some of these things, of course some can't be fixed anyways. In a way, I think it's a waste of time putting "firmware updatable" features in these things. Usually you get 1 or two, then it's game over for updates. You just hope the last one improves it.
  • 0

#22 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:23 PM

After hearing the mp3, that is exactly what I have heard on my JTV 89F too. Only when you have a heavy metal tone. I'm trying to remember if I just lowered the 6th string in the hd workbench, or adjusted the pickup impedance setting. As I understand it, a lower impedance setting has less dynamic range no? I'll have to check again, as I have not used the jtv on my hd100 mkii that I use for band recently.

I don't notice it through the hd500x, on a dual tread plate Metallica type tone, but that's just going through headphones while I'm setting up, (just got it) so who knows. Ehh, I'm starting to get the feeling, nothing gets done to fix some of these things, of course some can't be fixed anyways. In a way, I think it's a waste of time putting "firmware updatable" features in these things. Usually you get 1 or two, then it's game over for updates. You just hope the last one improves it.

 

Everyone is writing for this same problem in this topic below..Please write and share with us on this link too, we are planning to see how many of jtv-89F's have this problem..

 

http://line6.com/sup...ith-6th-string/


  • 0

#23 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 190 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:24 PM

Do not tamper with the piezo connections on the inside of the JTV-89F, if you

mix the color sequence, there will be problems with the way the signal sounds,

thus compounding your problem beyond what you already have.

 

What happens when you run the JTV (using the battery) going to an amp,

bypassing the HD500?


  • 0

#24 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:55 PM

Paskissian,

 

I have run my JTV-89F into my DT-25 combo and my AMPLIFI 150 and the weird sound is still present on the 6th string using both setups (no HD500). There is another thread that contains several sound files of this issue. It is linked to the post above yours.

 

The weird sound is most prevalent on certain models. The spank bridge presents this problem most clearly.

 

ice9mike


  • 0

#25 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 190 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

I've listened to the sound files. They were done straight through no HD500 in the signal chain?


  • 0

#26 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:43 AM

My sound file was recorded through HD500 but in the store we checked the guitar just plugging into a guitar amp and it produced the same sound...It has been 1 month that the guitar is on the service but they found nothing yet...


  • 0

#27 cruisinon2

cruisinon2

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 765 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:55 AM

My sound file was recorded through HD500 but in the store we checked the guitar just plugging into a guitar amp and it produced the same sound...It has been 1 month that the guitar is on the service but they found nothing yet...

 

Well, depending on where you left it, it's entirely possible that the reason they haven't found anything, is because it's still sitting in it's case, along with 100 other repair jobs that nobody has looked at yet. I've noticed over the years that stuff tends to sit around at some of these places...


  • 0

#28 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:03 AM

yes you are right... but they called me 1 week after they took it, and said that we couldn't identify the problem, i explained again and sent the record again, and they said that they understood the problem...Every week i called them but the tech guy hasn't got enough knowledge to solve this issue i think...Finally they said that they sent an email to Line6 for getting help, still waiting...


  • 0

#29 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:48 AM

My recordings were done straight through the HD500 into my computer, but I have experienced the same issue with just my AMPLIFI 150 and DT-25. In fact the issue is now noticeable on the 6th and 4th strings. It's so bad that the finger squeak noise is amplified more than the fundamental note of the string. I will post more sound files recorded straight through my AMPLIFI 150 later today.


  • 0

#30 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 85 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:01 PM

I posted another sound file here:

 

https://soundcloud.c...-spank-bridge-1

 

I was short on time so I still recorded through my HD500 using the AC30 model with light distortion. Plinky, plinky, plinky on the 6th string. The 5th and 4th sound fine. I am on firmware 2.10.

 

I hope one day I can be rid of plinky, plinky.


  • 0

#31 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:36 AM

It's not related to HD500 as I don't own one, my clips were recorded through an Axe-FX II

It's also not restricted to 89f mine is a 59p... Which came out about the same time ... Later than the other models
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users