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Amp Pre Vs. Full Amp Model In Hd500 In Front Of Dt25

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#1 GeeTah

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:18 AM

Hey there everyone,

 

Just acquired a DT25 (actually a pair of them) to complete our dream rig and are attempting to implement the DT25's. The DT's will replace a pair of venerable old (and thoroughly road-tested) Tech 21 PE60's.  They will be used for stage volume and our plan is to tap the XLR direct out on the DT25's to go to the FOH console, just like we've been doing via the PE60's. We are hoping for a stage volume output that IS the same as we send to the FOH - in the PE60's, it's "pretty" close, but it's not the same.

 

Our gear and our plan:

We have 2 JTV59's (a Korean and a USA), two POD HD's (an HD500 and a HD Pro) and now the two DT25's. Our plan is to facilitate either a single dream rig with stereo-DT25's, or two separate one-amp-DT25 dream rigs - depending on the performance requirements. We're just getting started on the full Dream Rig setup (although we've been using the JTV's and the POD HD's for a while with the PE60's) - so, apologies in advance for what will probably seem like easy questions for you experienced Dream Rig guys.

 

Situation:

In following the manual for connecting the HD500 to the DT25 via L6 Link, we noticed that the suggested amp model is the PRE version, rather than the full version.

 

Question1:

What is the difference in the PRE amp model and the full amp - we have never used the PRE models for anything.... But we've never had the DT25's until now.

 

Question 2:

We will need to tap the direct-out of the DT25 and route it to the FOH console - same as we've doing on the PE60's. If we use a PRE model as the manual suggests, will the signal tapped from the back of the amp (XLR direct out) be fully-baked with the amp model, effects, etc. - or is it something more akin to a dry signal? We do need the fully-baked signal.

 

Question 3:

We didn't have access to AES/EBU cables last night when we connected the DT25's to the HD500 and used Prolink Mic cables instead. Amp A seemed to be getting all the right settings, but Amp B wasn't responding to topology changes sent via the HD500. We reversed the amp order and also tried different cables to make sure it wasn't a bad cable, or something wrong with the amp - but the result was the same. Question: Is this the type of glitch that causes Line 6 to recommend AEX/EBU cables rather than standard (albeit high quality) mic cables?

 

Thanks in advance for helping us out here.

 

Bradley

 

 

 


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#2 TheRealZap

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:40 AM

1. when using DT amps, the amp will physically change via relays etc to match the amp being modeled... using the pre's eliminated the power amp modeling and makes the DT's much more realistically representative of the amp that was modeled.

 

2. the out on the DT's will include the full sound, cab, amp, mic... 

 

3. may not be a glitch... you have to tell the pod how to interact with multiple DT's upgrading the cables is a great place to start though... just in case that does factor in.


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#3 radatats

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:49 AM

in addition to the POD advanced guide and the DT quick start guide make sure you download and read the L6 link and connectivity guide.  Lots of extra bits of info in there too...


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#4 GeeTah

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:26 AM

Thanks guys,

 

We'll try a couple AES/EBU cables and see if that improves things - but based on what I can tell in the forum, I don't find anyone who has mentioned specifically having to use those, as opposed to high quality mic cables.

 

Yes, we did adjust the topology of Amp B from HD500 Edit and it did respond, but not correctly. Example (talking only B here, Amp A was responding correctly): when we would select topology 1, the amp would respond correctly, 2 would stay on 1, 3 would go to 4 and 4 would go to 4. The amps being modeled on Amp A and Amp B were the same, so something is amiss.

 

We did download and read through the L6 Connectivity Guide V2.1o RevA - and that's what prompted us to ask about why we needed to use the PRE model as opposed to the full amp model. The L6 Connectivity Guide told us to use the PRE, but didn't say why.


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#5 TheRealZap

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

did you update the firmware on both DT amps and the pods?

lots of L6LINK related fixes in there... in fact that's been the main focus of the firmware upgrades in the last year i'd say.....


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#6 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:53 AM

We did download and read through the L6 Connectivity Guide V2.1o RevA - and that's what prompted us to ask about why we needed to use the PRE model as opposed to the full amp model. The L6 Connectivity Guide told us to use the PRE, but didn't say why.

 

I use a standard XLR mic cable for my L6Link connection, doesn't seem to give it any problems.

 

Regarding setting multiple DT's while using L6Link, the easiest way to test/program what needs to go on there, is using the HD500 edit software. You will notice all the various options for what can occur with routing. In general, it's also worth taking a look at how the fx blocks are positioned.

 

For example, a mono FX block prior to the amp block will sum the audio prior to hitting the amp portion. If you are using two amp models, there are specifics for how they occur, how they respond to panning in the mixer block portion, and also how the DT signal is being routed by the HD. You can set them up as stereo, as dual amp, and a variety of other settings - which are most clearly indicated in that edit software. This routing is also impacted by how the inputs are defined.

 

Regarding why you would choose a 'pre' instead of 'full' amp model, it's actually to do with the distinction of 'modelling' power amp response, vs. the Bogner portion of your DT's actually doing those power amp items.

 

In a nutshell:

 

-full amp models re-create the entire amplifier model, up to the cabinet. In studio/direct, the microphone and room sound is also modelled. In combo and stack poweramp modes, the microphone and room portion is excluded. HOWEVER, those output modes when used with 'full' amp models are still digitally modelling sag, bias, class A, A/B, pentode, triode, etc.

 

-When using the PRE versions of the amp models, the only portion which is digital is the preamp of each amp model - the tone stacks, levels, and drive/gain settings. The Bogner side of the DT  then handles actually switching betwen various analog relay switches to emulate, in an actual analog / tube / power amp stage, what each of those amp models would behave like.

 

Here are some of the blurbs from the manuals, that are relevant:

-------------------------------

Connecting Two or More DT Series Amplifiers

 

edited - removed incorrect info regarding L6Link using HD300/400, now just links to the connectivity guide.

 

Configuring the Audio Signal Fed to each DT Series Amp
As presented in the previous Quick Start steps, it is possible to configure L6 LINK audio signals and control/sync behaviors independently for up to 4 DT Series amps. This is all accomplished using the POD HD500/HD Pro SETUP - L6 LINK screens.

The SETUP - L6 LINK:AUDIO screen options to select your POD HD audio routings. These settings are all saved individually per POD HD Preset.

 

• Use the Multi-function Knobs 1 - 4 to choose the POD HD audio signal fed to each DT Series amp. Set the AMP 1 parameter for the first connected DT amp, and the additional AMP parameters for each consecutively connected DT amp. The available options for each DT amp are as follows.

• L, R or Left/Right sends the Left channel only, Right channel only or both the Left & Right channels (summed to mono), respectively. This signal is derived from the very end of the POD HD signal path, therefore, it includes all active FX and Amp Models. (Note that you can utilize the POD HD Mixer Block options to change what is panned to each of the Left and Right output.)

• Amp Model A, Amp Model B or Amp A/B sends the output directly from the respective Amp Model(s), wherever they reside within the signal flow. This audio signal includes FX Models positioned before the selected Amp Model, but not FX Models positioned after the Amp Model.

Note: that if your current Preset has only one Amp Block, then no “Amp B” actually exists. In this scenario, any of the AMP 1 through AMP 4 options in the above Setup screen set for “Amp Model B” will output the signal from the end of Path B to the respective DT Series amp.

 

Configuring the Control Options for Each DT Series Amp
The SETUP - L6 LINK:CONTROL options determine the “sync” behavior between POD HD500/HD Pro and each connected DT Series amp. When configuring L6 LINK Audio parameters for specialized purposes, for example, 4 DT amps all set to the same source for one huge mono backline, setting these Control parameters all to the same MIDI Channel provides the desired Control behavior. These settings are all saved individually per POD HD Preset, allowing you to create and instantly recall any number of different multi-amplifier configurations!

 

Use the Multi-function Knobs 1 - 4 to choose the POD HD Amp Model or MIDI Channel for up to four connected DT Series amplifiers.

• AMP A (CH 1): Sets Channel A of the respective DT amp to “sync” to the POD HD Amp Model A. (Also see “DT Series Amplifier - Channel A & B Operation” on page 3•8.)

• The DT amp will auto-configure its tube power amp Topology settings (Class AB/A, Voicing Mode, Pentode/Triode, and more) to match the current POD HD500 Preset’s Amp Model A.

• The DT amp Channel A and POD HD Amp Model A knob values (Drive, Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence & Volume) are synced.


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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:59 AM

POD HD500 Advanced Guide v2.10

 

2•17
Page 9, Setup: L6 LINK Audio

 

These options configure the POD HD500 audio signal fed to up to four Line 6 DT Series amplifiers and/or StageSource™ speakers using the L6 LINK connection. The settings for each of the 4 Amps are saved per Preset. Whenever one or more DT amps/StageSource speakers are connected to the POD HD500 - L6 LINK output, you’ll see each identified on the screen, such as the “DT50” appears as connected in the #1 Amp position in the above screenshot (note that these are indicators labels only and not stored per Preset).

1 - 4 Amp Options - Select the specific POD HD audio signal you want fed to each L6 LINK-connected DT amp/StageSource speaker. Note that the L6 LINK audio signal fed to each amp is mono.

• Choose Left, Right or Left/Right (summed to mono) to send the main POD HD output signal.

• Choose the output of one or two specific POD HD Amp Models - Amp Model A, Amp Model B, or both Amp Model A/B.

• Choose Mute to silence any connected DT amp/StageSource speaker. This is handy, for example, if you are L6 LINK-connected to both a DT amp and StageSource speaker.* You can save some POD HD Presets with the StageSource set to “Mute” to allow an electric guitar tone to be heard through DT amp only - and other Presets with the DT amp set to “Mute” for an acoustic tone to be heard from the StageSource speaker only. Even better, if you use a Line 6 Variax guitar, these electric & acoustic guitar settings can be saved with your POD HD Preset as well!

 

2•18

Page 10, Setup: L6 LINK Control

 

These options allow you to dictate how up to four connected Line 6 DT50 or DT25 amplifiers each “follow” the POD HD500 Amp Models & settings. Parameters 1 - 4 correspond to L6 LINK connected DT amplifiers 1 - 4, respectively.
• Each DT amplifier can be set independently to follow either the current Preset’s Amp Model A or Amp Model B.
• The DT amplifier automatically configures its power amp Topology settings to match the selected Amp Model A or B.
• The DT amp controls are also synced to the selected Amp Model A or B.
• Alternatively, you can select a MIDI Channel to set the DT amp’s MIDI communication channel. This effectively sets the respective DT amp to utilize its own internal Amp Model (rather than the POD HD500 Amp Model), and “syncs” its front panel controls with other DT amps that are set to the same MIDI Channel.


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#8 GeeTah

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

We did update the firmware for the HD's, and updated our HD500 Edit program and updated Monkey. But we didn't find a way to update the DT25's firmware. Even when we had them connected and powered up, Monkey didn't detect them (the HD500 was connected and both DT25's were connected to the HD500 via L6 Link) and there doesn't appear to be a way to update them via a direct USB connection. Are we missing something?


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#9 TheRealZap

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:38 PM

you have to use a separate midi interface, and monkey will see them...

they wont update through L6LINK or the pod....

 

We did update the firmware for the HD's, and updated our HD500 Edit program and updated Monkey. But we didn't find a way to update the DT25's firmware. Even when we had them connected and powered up, Monkey didn't detect them (the HD500 was connected and both DT25's were connected to the HD500 via L6 Link) and there doesn't appear to be a way to update them via a direct USB connection. Are we missing something?


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#10 GeeTah

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:49 PM

Understood. We did also read the DT25 MIDI Implementation Guide and saw the amp could use MIDI to restore the factory default settings, but we missed the part about using MIDI rather than L6 Link to update the flash memory. So, we didn't even attempt to connect it via MIDI. We'll connect it via MIDI and attempt the update and see if that helps smooth things out.   


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#11 TheRealZap

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:57 PM

you can go back to defaults very easily from the front of the DT's as well without midi if you ever needed to.

(pinch/hold topo/pent switch together while powering on, release when lights stop flashing)

 

Understood. We did also read the DT25 MIDI Implementation Guide and saw the amp could use MIDI to restore the factory default settings, but we missed the part about using MIDI rather than L6 Link to update the flash memory. So, we didn't even attempt to connect it via MIDI. We'll connect it via MIDI and attempt the update and see if that helps smooth things out.   


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#12 GeeTah

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:29 AM

We did do the firmware update last night from 1.0 to 2.0 via MIDI and it took care of the sync'ing problems. So, sure do appreciate the heads-up on that.

 

Now, we are having a volume level issue - where Amp B is about 50% less volume than Amp A, even when the patches are setup to send the identical volume to both amps (ie no L/R panning and no dual-amp setup). Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

 

Bradley


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#13 GeeTah

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:00 AM

Here are some of the blurbs from the manuals, that are relevant:

-------------------------------

 

Connecting Two DT Series Amplifiers
To add a 2nd DT50 or DT25 amp, connect another XLR cable from the first amp’s L6 LINK THRU jack to the other amp’s L6 LINK IN jack. The amps will automatically configure themselves for stereo operation. The 1st DT amp will receive the POD HD left channel audio signal and the 2nd will receive the right channel audio.

 

Whenever your POD HD Amp/Preamp Model is “On,” both DT Series amps receive the POD HD Amp Model audio, and adaptively set their tube power amp options to match. Adjust the Amp Tone knobs on POD HD or on Channel A of either DT amp and you’ll see that all these POD HD Amp & DT controls all work in “sync.”

 

The DT50 or DT25 amp (or, all DT Series amps, if more than one is included in the L6 LINK connection) will automatically switch between Channels A & B based on the current POD HD Amp Model’s On/Off state. Each DT amp’s A or B Channel also follows specific behaviors as to the “syncing” of its Amp Tone knob and Voicing settings with those of the POD HD Amp Model.

 

 

 

Colonel Forbin,

 

Sure do appreciate you passing that along, I do believe that the excerpt you shared is from the HD300 and HD400 portion of the L6 Link Connectivity Guide. Our PODS are the HD500 and also HD Pro, which allow for up-to four DT amps, where the 300/400 are limited to two DT amps. I actually wish that the HD500 and HD Pro worked like the 300/400 series in cases of connecting two DT amps, ie that when you plug in a second amp everything going down the L channel output of the POD goes to Amp A and and the R channel goes to Amp B - then when a third or fourth amp is added the individual controls would function. 

 

But, in the case of the HD 500 or HD Pro, nothing is automatic in terms of plug-and-play in adding the second DT amp - at least that the way it appears to us... 

 

Bradley


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#14 TheRealZap

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:06 AM

no definitive answer for this one...

but have you tried changing the amps positioning on the cables, just to see if there is a cabling issue?

also try that reset procedure that i stated above on both amps, just to make sure that they are both "factory fresh"

as i said... this may not affect the issue... just some things i'd try to zero in on whatever it is.

 

We did do the firmware update last night from 1.0 to 2.0 via MIDI and it took care of the sync'ing problems. So, sure do appreciate the heads-up on that.

 

Now, we are having a volume level issue - where Amp B is about 50% less volume than Amp A, even when the patches are setup to send the identical volume to both amps (ie no L/R panning and no dual-amp setup). Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

 

Bradley


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#15 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

Well, I am definitely keeping tabs on how this all works out for you! I just have the HD500 and one DT25, but once it's paid off, I am seriously considering buying a second DT amp.

 

It sounds like some of the issues are coming from how the HD500 patches are interacting with the DT25's, so when you get some working setups, if possible, post some of your patches?

 

Good luck!


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#16 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:12 AM

The thing with using two DT's and only defining one amp model, is I believe one of the DT's then defaults to whatever the settings *on that DT* are. So, it could be that one DT is being fed a signal with a preamp from the HD, and the other is being only sent a guitar signal + FX into the preamp defined by the actual switch on the DT.

 

I would guess you just have the one input defined on the HD? I know there can be some quirks with dual inputs, and how the signal chain is divided between amp A and B.

 

For example, a user here (radatats) devised a solution for using the JTV acoustics with a DT amp. Some understanding of when the HD programming bypasses amp models is key to solving the dilemma you have. He defined two amp blocks, left one blank. Set the other to any amp choice, and set the mixer stage on that amp to 'mute'. Now, logic vs reality - this setup passes through a signal, whose volume is now controlled by the mixer block with NO AMP DEFINED. The tone stacks, and drive are no longer active, and the patch in essence passes the JTV signal direct into the DT power amp as if you had run a 1/4" into the FX return on the back.

Take another look at how the dual-DT rig defaults to stereo vs dual amp, that may lead you in the right direction. Double check those mixer block settings also.

 

This is probably a no-brainer, but also make sure they are both in full volume mode, and neither is set to the low-power mode or whatever it's called.


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#17 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:17 AM

my bad on the HD300/400 stuff! Got too paste-copy happy. I thought I was copying those from the HD500 advanced manual, latest revision, seems like it doesn't quite cover the full explanation of what you are having issues with. What I was thinking with the manner in which two DT's are defined, is sort of addressed here:

------------

Note that if your current Preset has only one Amp Block, then no “Amp B” actually exists. In this scenario, any of the AMP 1 through AMP 4 options in the above Setup screen set for “Amp Model B” will output the signal from the end of Path B to the respective DT Series amp.

 

Use the Multi-function Knobs 1 - 4 to choose the POD HD audio signal fed to each DT Series amp. Set the AMP 1 parameter for the first connected DT amp, and the additional AMP parameters for each consecutively connected DT amp. The available options for each DT amp are as follows.

• L, R or Left/Right sends the Left channel only, Right channel only or both the Left & Right channels (summed to mono), respectively. This signal is derived from the very end of the POD HD signal path, therefore, it includes all active FX and Amp Models. (Note that you can utilize the POD HD Mixer Block options to change what is panned to each of the Left and Right output.)

• Amp Model A, Amp Model B or Amp A/B sends the output directly from the respective Amp Model(s), wherever they reside within the signal flow. This audio signal includes FX Models positioned before the selected Amp Model, but not FX Models positioned after the Amp Model.

 

• AMP A (CH 1): Sets Channel A of the respective DT amp to “sync” to the POD HD Amp Model A. (Also see “DT Series Amplifier - Channel A & B Operation” on page 3•8.)
• The DT amp will auto-configure its tube power amp Topology settings (Class AB/A, Voicing Mode, Pentode/Triode, and more) to match the current POD HD500 Preset’s Amp Model A.
• The DT amp Channel A and POD HD Amp Model A knob values (Drive, Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence & Volume) are synced.

 

• AMP B (CH 2): Sets Channel A of the respective DT amp to “sync” to the POD HD Amp Model B.
• The DT amp Channel A auto-configures its tube power amp settings to match the current POD HD Preset’s Amp Model B.
• The DT amp Channel A and POD HD Amp Model B knob values are synced.


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#18 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:50 AM

Just took a quick look at the HD500 editor, offline.

 

This behavior may change when actually connected to an HD500/Pro, but I see that when swapping between amp models, I am noticing that the corrsponding typology, pentode/triode, and class A, A/B settings do not seem to change with the amp model selections.

 

If possible, load your patch into the HD editor, and define as much as you can there, in terms of:

 

Mixer section: panning L/R, and DT1, DT2 audio source. I would guess that by defining these as DT1 / Amp-A= "left" and  DT2 / Amp-B="right" you will get the proper stereo split, which should also set the two DT's to the two amp models chosen.

 

Amps section: Class A or A/B, pentode or triode, and typology.

 

According to the manual, these settings should all be controlled by the amp / pre model selection.

 

"The DT amp automatically configures its power amp Topology settings to match the
selected Amp Model A or B."

 

You will also notice, that when selecting "full amp" models vs "pre" amp models, in the full settings, there is an additional tab called "amp parameters", in addition to the "cab parameters". This is found, in the HD edit screen, on the AMPS tab. That extra tab handles settings for master,sag, hum, bias, and bias x.

 

Not sure where you can control these settings when using PRE models, I would guess these are the types of factors which the Bogner handles, rather than being digitally modelled?

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#19 GeeTah

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:08 PM

Well, I am definitely keeping tabs on how this all works out for you! I just have the HD500 and one DT25, but once it's paid off, I am seriously considering buying a second DT amp.

 

It sounds like some of the issues are coming from how the HD500 patches are interacting with the DT25's, so when you get some working setups, if possible, post some of your patches?

 

 

Sure. I'd definitely be happy to share some of our multi-amp/2 channel patches with you. Just know that our patches are fairly simple as we (often) run an M9 in the effects loop to wire-around hitting the DSP wall. That works exceptionally well when using only the POD HD's and the XLR direct-outs going to the FOH console. As mentioned in my initial post of this thread, we were previously using Tech 21 PE60's for stage volume and the idea of the DT's was to give us stage volume that was more organic than the PE60's could produce...

 

Hopefully it works out. If not, the plan is to return the DT's and stay with the PE60's as the ramp-up curve on the DT's has been more than any of us had planned on. We've used Fractal FX II and Avid's Eleven Rack stuff, prior to going with Line 6 and didn't have to work quite so hard to get the results we were aiming for... Yet, we were able to fund two rigs for the price of one Fractal rig, so it will be worth it - assuming we figure all this stuff out.

 

We don't regret going with the PD HD's over the Fractal and Avid gear, but maybe adding the DT's and hoping them to seamlessly and easily deploy was setting our hopes too high - as the PE60's were actually still working fine. We just wanted "better."

 

Thanks for the help here Colonel! Same to you up there RealZap! We'll keep at it for another week or two and see how it goes. 

 

Bradley


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#20 ColonelForbin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:54 AM

Sure. I'd definitely be happy to share some of our multi-amp/2 channel patches with you. Just know that our patches are fairly simple as we (often) run an M9 in the effects loop to wire-around hitting the DSP wall. That works exceptionally well when using only the POD HD's and the XLR direct-outs going to the FOH console.

 

We don't regret going with the PD HD's over the Fractal and Avid gear, but maybe adding the DT's and hoping them to seamlessly and easily deploy was setting our hopes too high - as the PE60's were actually still working fine. We just wanted "better."

 

Sweet! That's a great idea - more FX in the fx loop is always welcome. Actually, I just bought a copy of ProTools 11, and Sweetwater had it on sale as the "Eleven Rack + ProTools 11" bundle, for the same price as just the software elsewhere, so new gadget for me to play with! Plus the 11R also functions as soundcard, so will have some good options for doing scratch guitar tracks direct while mic'ing the drums for recordings.

 

I am going to experiment along those same lines, maybe even fuss around with the 4CM, between the 11R and the HD500.


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#21 GeeTah

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:09 PM

I am going to experiment along those same lines, maybe even fuss around with the 4CM, between the 11R and the HD500.

 

You can have some fun combining the 11R and the HD500 - 4CM and also in other ways. We actually put the 11R in the effects loop of the HD Pro for one session when we needed additional delay effects. Never could get the tempo's to sync (didn't have enough time to attempt to set up a midi relationship between them), but it worked otherwise.

 

We sold the 11R a couple of weeks later (and also sold an Axe FXII) and bought the floor POD (HD500) for live stuff and well full-in Line 6 after that. Then we added the M9 and we had all the DSP we could ever need - combining those two. 

 

We're planning on a session on Wednesday night with the DT-25's and we're hoping we can make them work correctly by then. 

 

We'll post whatever happens.

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Fingers crossed.

 

Bradley


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#22 juicyjones

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

I am keen on this because I plan a stereo rig using either the DTs or FRFR speakers with my 500X and these things are going to come up. But mainly, I have been shopping out Variax guitars, and not to derail the thread, but I'm incredibly interested in how big the difference is between the korean and US made models. You're the only person I have seen recently in a band with one of each.


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#23 GeeTah

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:57 AM

I am keen on this because I plan a stereo rig using either the DTs or FRFR speakers with my 500X and these things are going to come up. But mainly, I have been shopping out Variax guitars, and not to derail the thread, but I'm incredibly interested in how big the difference is between the korean and US made models. You're the only person I have seen recently in a band with one of each.


There are significant differences in the 2 guitars, but the K model is great. Where we hear the most difference is in the non-modeled mode (ie just using the onboard p'ups). The US model is just a sweet guitar in every way. It played like butter from the moment we uncrated it. That being said, the K model represents an awesome value for what it does. We have one of the earliest ones to roll out of the Korean facility that L6 uses to build the K models (World Musical Instruments). We have had a few tech issues with it, mainly the switches.

Here's a great example of how to compare the US and the K models. Think Les Pauls. Think Epiphone vs. Gibson USA. The Epi represent a great value, has great build quality, etc. But, the USA Pauls are just a rung above the Asians ones. If money is an object, you will be most happy with the K, but if it's not an object in your case, the USA model will make you happiest. Hope this helps. BTW, we are glad we have both. Depending on the situation and where we're playing, we decide which JTV59 will make that trip - often both do.

Take care,
Bradley GT
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#24 DarrellM5

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 07:32 AM

I believe that the US versions are a little nicer.  The problem is my Korean JTV-69 is close to perfect and, if I shop around for the proper deals, I could have all 3 Korean versions for the price of a US made Variax.  Seeing that the electronics are the same, I couldn't justify paying more for a single US guitar than I did for my entire Dream Rig.


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#25 tgastel

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

Being budget minded and having to add pieces slowly to attain The Dream Rig, I'd ask you what's more important first?  Great sound out your HD or cool guitar modeling and tuning options?

 

For me at my low skill level, and if I could do it over again, I'd start with either two DT's or two Stage Sources and add the Variax later.  This comes with learning about output modes and how dual tones really work.

 

I can expound on that, but I think if others with more time on the Line 6 gear jump here, they can better explain where I'm coming from.


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