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Jtv 59 - B And E Strings Very Low Volume On Models

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#1 donnachatoo

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

Hi,

 

I'm a new Variav JTV59 (Black) owner. I bought it from Thomann.de and it was B-Stock. First off, its really nice and once I adjusted the action it was lovely to play. Hooking it up to my Hughes and Kettner TRIAMP 100w and 4x12 cab it sounded great, especially with the mag pickups.

 

2 nights ago I upgraded from 1.82 to 2.00 firmware. Now I'm not sure if it was like this before I upgraded but it now seems that in most models that I try the B and high E strings have very low volume. It was really apparent when I used the guitar on Rocksmith where you can visbly see that playing on those strings does not move the metre as much as the volume from the other strings.

 

So my question is, how do you know that this is a software issue vs. a hardware issue? Is it likely that the piezo pickup is damaged and 2 of the strings are much quieter, or is it a common issue that these strings are effected with the new firmware? If so, can I adjust those two strings anyway, i.e. can I turn the volume up, or do I have to turn all the others down?

 

Thanks, and apologies if its a newbie question !


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#2 silverhead

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

You can use Workbench HD to individually adjust string volumes. Many people have reported that these particular strings seem to have a lower volume from the factory. The Workbench adjustment resolves this.


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#3 cruisinon2

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

Lotsa guys didn't like 2.0, for this and a multitude of other reasons. Play around with the string volumes in Workbench until everything sounds right to you. If all else fails you can always roll back the firmware.


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#4 donnachatoo

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:36 AM

Thanks both. I'm going to have a go with FW1.9 to see if that eases the issue. If not then I'll try adjusting the string volume, but don't necessarily want to do this for each model. I find its like this on the Lester model as well as 12-string models.


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#5 snhirsch

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

When I moved to 2.0 firmware, I rolled off the bottom 4 strings about 6db on the overall gain settings.  There's been a strong concensus that relative levels are not right "out of the box".


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#6 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:27 AM

There is a global string volume in WB so you don't have to do  it for every model. 


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#7 cruisinon2

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:08 AM

Thanks both. I'm going to have a go with FW1.9 to see if that eases the issue. If not then I'll try adjusting the string volume, but don't necessarily want to do this for each model. I find its like this on the Lester model as well as 12-string models.

 

Don't have to do it for each model. There's a global string volume setting.


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#8 donnachatoo

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:43 PM

I reflashed v2 firmware last night and that seems to have fixed the issue. Those 2 strings are now much louder on all models. Thanks for the help!

 

The acoustics sound better and I can see why some people may have issue with the Strat sounds, but I think they're OK (could be a little beefier), but in general now that the strings are audible I'm pleased....but I've only had it a week, so had no time to get used to an pre-v2.0 sounds :)


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#9 edstar1960

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:31 AM

I reflashed v2 firmware last night and that seems to have fixed the issue. Those 2 strings are now much louder on all models. Thanks for the help!

 

The acoustics sound better and I can see why some people may have issue with the Strat sounds, but I think they're OK (could be a little beefier), but in general now that the strings are audible I'm pleased....but I've only had it a week, so had no time to get used to an pre-v2.0 sounds :)

 

Interesting that a reflash fixed the issue - the same thing has happened to me and others - but I don't understand why it should make a difference - a flash update should work or not - it's really odd that sometimes it can partially work and cause a problem such as low volume on B and E strings.  Makes no sense at all, but glad that a reflash can mysteriously fix it!      :)


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#10 cruisinon2

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:49 AM

Interesting that a reflash fixed the issue - the same thing has happened to me and others - but I don't understand why it should make a difference - a flash update should work or not - it's really odd that sometimes it can partially work and cause a problem such as low volume on B and E strings.  Makes no sense at all, but glad that a reflash can mysteriously fix it!      :)

 

Agreed...you'd think that either everything would work, or nothing would. Had similar issue with the position 3 acoustic model after flashing to 2.0 the first time. That model had a very strange, bass-heavy delay if the tone knob was anywhere but 100% on. I'd play a note, and about 300 ms later this loud "whump" (and I had no delay in the patch at all). Re-flashed the firmware, and it disappeared. These guitars can get really odd at times.


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#11 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:59 AM

Line6 should fix this flaky reflash.  There is absolutely no reason why reflash should partially work.  I have never seen anything like that with the things I have worked on that have firmware upgrade capability.  The first thing we always did was develop a way to verify the image before reprogramming the flash with it.


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#12 cruisinon2

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:30 AM

Line6 should fix this flaky reflash.  There is absolutely no reason why reflash should partially work.  I have never seen anything like that with the things I have worked on that have firmware upgrade capability.  The first thing we always did was develop a way to verify the image before reprogramming the flash with it.

 

I suspect that even they don't know why the firmware behaves this way. It's never the same problem twice. Makes a universal fix rather difficult. Explains why they seem to have opted for the "cross your fingers and re-flash" approach.


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#13 donnachatoo

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

It is bizarre that I could reflash the firmware this evening and completely mess up the guitar again ! For now though it seems like its "fixed" so I'm not going to touch it....well, I will play it of course !! BTW its a very nice guitar !


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#14 cruisinon2

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:45 AM

It is bizarre that I could reflash the firmware this evening and completely mess up the guitar again ! For now though it seems like its "fixed" so I'm not going to touch it....well, I will play it of course !! BTW its a very nice guitar !

 

Yup...not touching the firmware again until the next update arrives...whenever that may be. And even then I"ll probably wait and see if it sets fire to any guitars before I chance it. :wacko:


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#15 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:46 AM

I am afraid to reflash mine.  It came with 2.0 and everything seems to work properly so I won't mess with it until I have a  real good reason to. (like new FW that has a feature I want)  I have not experienced any of the problems reported here with 2.0.  No issues with string volumes.


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#16 lasvideo

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:49 PM

Ditto above.


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#17 attachiant

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:56 PM

Same problem with my JTV-59 
the B and E string are very low with version 2.0
I'm affraid to use it on stage
So I came back to older version 1.90
I'm waiting for a new flash that fix this problem (Workbench HD look pretty cool  :( )


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#18 donnachatoo

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:11 AM

I'm not 100% convinced with the 2.0 FW. The volume of the strings seems fixed, but on some of the models the same two strings seems to have a "warbling" sound, mainly on alt. tunings. What I'm not sure of is whether its the noise from the actual strings that I can hear blending with the alt.tuned strings, but that should hold true for all strings....it could also be something that Rocksmith is doing to the sound (need to test it through the amp on Sunday). I may yet reflash to 1.9 !


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#19 cruisinon2

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:58 AM

Same problem with my JTV-59 
the B and E string are very low with version 2.0
I'm affraid to use it on stage
So I came back to older version 1.90
I'm waiting for a new flash that fix this problem (Workbench HD look pretty cool  :( )

 

You can fix it yourself in two seconds...just level them out in Workbench. Waiting for Line 6 to do it for you may prove to be disappointing.


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#20 cruisinon2

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:15 AM

What I'm not sure of is whether its the noise from the actual strings that I can hear blending with the alt. tuned strings...

 

It's easy to get fooled by this...happened to me at first. Record something, if the the warble isn't there in the playback, then you're probably hearing the guitar acoustically. JTVs ring kinda loud. Little more volume, or headphones will solve it.

 

but that should hold true for all strings....

 

Not necessarily...it would depend on the tuning. For some tunings, not all the strings are being altered.


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#21 warcloudwells

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:45 AM

Guess I can weigh in on this issue with no issues at all with my month-old -59 and OEM FW 2.0, without any reflashes.  All strings have proper relative levels and all I've done in Workbench is lower the Lester gains that I commonly use.  I'll eventually fine-tune the acoustic models and that quirky banjo.

 

I'm lovin' the -59 and 500X setup, and get really positive comments from bandmates.  Wish the model knob had LARGER FONT though. Much to learn, however.


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#22 donnachatoo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:54 AM

So, had rehearsal last night (first time in ages) with the band and it was the first time playing the JTV59 in a loud environment. My band usually plays in Eb so I left the guitar in E and used the alt-tuning to Eb. The E & B strings still had that "warble" sound to them. The bass player commented that it sounded like they were being put through a Leslie speaker!!

 

I then tuned the guitar itself down to Eb and played through the mag pickups instead. Sounded great just on its own !! I will reflash once more to 2.0 and if that doesn't work I'll drop down to 1.9 to see if that fixes it !


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#23 cruisinon2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:09 AM

So, had rehearsal last night (first time in ages) with the band and it was the first time playing the JTV59 in a loud environment. My band usually plays in Eb so I left the guitar in E and used the alt-tuning to Eb. The E & B strings still had that "warble" sound to them. The bass player commented that it sounded like they were being put through a Leslie speaker!!

 

I then tuned the guitar itself down to Eb and played through the mag pickups instead. Sounded great just on its own !! I will reflash once more to 2.0 and if that doesn't work I'll drop down to 1.9 to see if that fixes it !

 

Lots of theories as to what causes this on some guitars and not others. Intonation could be the culprit if it's wildly off. It's worth a look. Not likely to be a 1.9 vs 2.0 thing...however, reflashing whichever version of the firmware you're running has fixed weird issues for some. These guitars get funky sometimes.


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#24 donnachatoo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:15 AM

Good point, didn't think about intonation - as its only noticeable when using Alt-tuning that may be a reason? Will check it out tonight. Thanks :)


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#25 cruisinon2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:26 AM

Good point, didn't think about intonation - as its only noticeable when using Alt-tuning that may be a reason? Will check it out tonight. Thanks :)

 

Yeah...it's the one semi-"official" diagnosis that makes any sense. The tuning algorithm is expecting standard tuning input...if you're feeding it notes that are slightly off, I can see this causing a problem. It definitely isn't perfect. For laughs, load up one of the 12 string models, and then rake harmonics across all the strings at the 5th or 7th frets...you'll hear all kinds of funky warbling, pitches going up and down all over the place. So there are definitely things that confuse the software...the more DSP, the weirder it gets.

 

 


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#26 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

Alt tuning is a compromise at best.  The string and it's overtones are at the standard tuning but the feedback from your amp is at the alt tuning.  It works pretty well but not perfectly and it is very susceptible to resonance and crosstalk problems.


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#27 donnachatoo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:43 AM

What's the alt-tuning like if I actually tune the guitar down to Eb anyway, so in essence that's the "standard"? Would drop D still work OK? ....obvioulsy I realise I can try this out myself, but just asking as I don't have my guitar in front of me at work !!

:D


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#28 cruisinon2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:51 AM

What's the alt-tuning like if I actually tune the guitar down to Eb anyway, so in essence that's the "standard"? Would drop D still work OK? ....obvioulsy I realise I can try this out myself, but just asking as I don't have my guitar in front of me at work !!

:D

 

Good question...only one way to find out. Given the alt. tunings' tendency to be tempermental when the guitar is physically tuned to E, feeding the tuning algorithm Eb might cause the guitar to leap to it's death. Don't try it near any open windows... ;)

 

And for God's sake man...don't touch the pickup covers! :P


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#29 radatats

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

And for God's sake man...don't touch the pickup covers. :P

 

definitely not!  after all this is a "different beast"... you might get the 6 screws put back in the wrong order...  and you will never be the same once you see what's actually living under there...  leprechauns?


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#30 cruisinon2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

  leprechauns?

 Today only...lol

 

And if you attempt to replace him with a balanced tension Leprechaun, you will void your warranty... :D


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#31 donnachatoo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

Leprechauns?


How did you know I'm Irish? :-)
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#32 cruisinon2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:55 PM

Everybody's a little Irish today...
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#33 donnachatoo

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:16 AM

Well its a new day ...and I'm still Irish ! :D

 

Had to recharge he battery last night so didn't check the guitar out.....another question from my use of the guitar in a band setting the other day, is it possible to generate feedback when in modelling mode? I like how silent everything is, but when I actually wanted to create some amp feedback I couldn't !!


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#34 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:13 AM

Not as easy to get feedback with the Piezo pickups as it is with mags.


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#35 donnachatoo

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:32 AM

Well tried alt tuning last night with the guitar strings tuned to Eb. In short it was a mess !!! So best not to use the Alt Tuning dial unless the guitar is tuned to E !


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#36 cruisinon2

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

Well tried alt tuning last night with the guitar strings tuned to Eb. In short it was a mess !!! So best not to use the Alt Tuning dial unless the guitar is tuned to E !


That's kinda what I figured...lol
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#37 donnachatoo

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:47 AM

What I'm going to do it go into the Workbench and lower the alt.tunings by half a tone to see if that "realigns" the alt tunings to handle the guitar being in Eb


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#38 egkor

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:08 AM

Good question...only one way to find out. Given the alt. tunings' tendency to be tempermental when the guitar is physically tuned to E, feeding the tuning algorithm Eb might cause the guitar to leap to it's death. Don't try it near any open windows... ;)
 
And for God's sake man...don't touch the pickup covers! :P


:) :) :)

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#39 edstar1960

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:23 AM

I upgrade to v2.1 and immediately hit the problem with the E and B string being much lower in volume but only on the T-MOD positions 1,3,5 and also the SPANK 1 through 5.

 

I did reflash once and it was still a problem, so as I had a gig coming up I was forced to roll back to v1.9 as I did not have time to go into WB HD and adjust string volumes accurately for affected models, and then counter by boosting overall model volume for the adjusted ones so that the total model sounds at the right level in comparison to the non-adjusted models.

 

It would be good to know what causes this problem so we all know how to avoid it - from the forum it seems that it only affects some people, so maybe there is a common component with those that get affected.


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#40 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:55 AM

I'm afraid that the answer is in the piezo's themselves.  You will have to adjust the string volumes of the models to your liking.  I like the E and B loud on the tele and strat models.


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