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Jtv 59 - B And E Strings Very Low Volume On Models

low string volumes

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#41 edstar1960

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:50 AM

I'm afraid that the answer is in the piezo's themselves.  You will have to adjust the string volumes of the models to your liking.  I like the E and B loud on the tele and strat models.

 

If it was the piezo's then I would have the same problem with whatever firmware I had installed.  Also if it was the piezo's then different people would have volume issues with different strings and not always B and E on the same models.  With v1.9 the string volumes for the affected models are fine - with v2.0 and v2.1 for some reason they become very quiet and the low E becomes as loud as the JTV mag humbuckers.  Also, some people have reported that reflashing with v2.0 or v2.1 fixes the problem and the string volumes are balanced ok on a 3rd or 4th reflash, and this would not happen if it was the physical piezo's causing the problem.

 

There is something else going wrong here and it should be fixed so nobody gets hit with it.


Edited by edstar1960, 07 May 2014 - 07:00 AM.

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#42 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:03 AM

Sorry but I am not in the camp that believes in reflashing to fix problems.  Once should do it unless it craps out during the process.  They may have retuned the string volumes of the models when they went to HD models but the effect may be different on different JTV's.  Also, some may be more bothered by it depending on what kind of stuff they are playing.  I agree that the B and E should be louder on some of the models - especially those with Bridge pickups.  Nothing  on my 69S changed between the 2.0 and 2.1 FW release and I am happy with the models.   I never experienced the earlier FW because my 69S came with 2.0 installed at my request.  I do have a Variax 500 to compare it to and I think the JTV sounds better on everything.  (And I have upgraded my 500 to Ghost pickups)


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#43 edstar1960

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:20 AM

Sorry but I am not in the camp that believes in reflashing to fix problems.  Once should do it unless it craps out during the process.  They may have retuned the string volumes of the models when they went to HD models but the effect may be different on different JTV's.  Also, some may be more bothered by it depending on what kind of stuff they are playing.  I agree that the B and E should be louder on some of the models - especially those with Bridge pickups.  Nothing  on my 69S changed between the 2.0 and 2.1 FW release and I am happy with the models.   I never experienced the earlier FW because my 69S came with 2.0 installed at my request.  I do have a Variax 500 to compare it to and I think the JTV sounds better on everything.  (And I have upgraded my 500 to Ghost pickups)

 

Hi Charlie - this is not a matter of taste believe me - it is a problem that quite a few people have encountered and it should be fixed.  Believe me - nobody could be happy with the difference in string volumes I encountered when I went to fw 2.1.  I spotted it immediately on the T-MOD position 1 because I use it a lot and it's one of my favourite go to models and I have several patches that use it on my HD500.  The B and E were barely loud enough to open the noise gate on my patch but the low E, A, D, G were at an equivalent volume to the bridge mag humbucker pu on the JTV59 - and that cannot be correct.   This was with my global string volumes that had the several db's already taken off the low strings but 0 dbs off the B and E, so in fact the difference was greater than I was hearing.   Something is very wrong here. 

Some users have reported that the problem resolved itself after they had reflashed - I don't understand why that should be, and I can't see why it would make any difference - but I believe these users because I have experienced a reflash mysteriously fixing problems.   EIther way - I should not have to resort to messing with global string volumes or individual model string volumes just to get to a standard starting point for a model.  Sure, if I have some problem piezo's or I particularly want a model to have certain strings more or less pronounced then yes I would go to WB and tweak,  but straight out of the box they should be usable for everyone without a glaring discrepancy.  I would like to get to the bottom of it and get it fixed.  Certainly, plenty of people do get clean installs first time that produce correctly balanced string volumes for each model, so it is achievable, we just need to work out why for a small number of people something goes wrong and produces this issue, on just the high E and B.

Kind regards

Ed


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#44 azur1964

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:25 PM

edstar1960

" we just need to work out why for a small number of people something goes wrong and produces this issue, on just the high E and B."

 

- C'est mon cas. Mais ce n'est pas forcement un problème de capteur piezo. C'est la modélisation du corp de la guitare qui produit cet effet. C'est sensible avec la simulation de la strat et d'une telecaster. Quand on prend la simulation d'une masonite ou d'une autre guitare, ce problème est beaucoup moins important.

 

Some users have reported that the problem resolved itself after they had reflashed - I don't understand why that should be, and I can't see why it would make any difference -

- Je ne vois pas comment cela serait possible... Ce problème n'était pas général dans la version 1.9, mais très important dans la version 2.0 sur les 3 cordes hautes !!!

 

Pour régler le niveau des cordes on peut procéder de cette façon :

- Régler le niveau de la corde E haute de manière à ce qu'elle sonne aussi fort que lorsque on utilise le micro magnétique.

Le niveau général sera élevé (6 db par exemple)

- Régler le volume des autres cordes de la même manière, les unes après les autres.

Donc le truc c'est de se repérer par rapport aux micros magnétiques qui sont supposés être équilibrés.

Bien sur si on règle les cordes sur un micro simple, il faudra se baser sur un micros simple magnétique...

C'est ce que j'ai fait pour la position Spank-4 et le résultat est bien meilleur, car l'equilibre des volumes permet de retrouver le coté "spanky" de la strat.... 

 

Saluts.


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#45 edstar1960

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:27 AM

edstar1960

" we just need to work out why for a small number of people something goes wrong and produces this issue, on just the high E and B."

 

- C'est mon cas. Mais ce n'est pas forcement un problème de capteur piezo. C'est la modélisation du corp de la guitare qui produit cet effet. C'est sensible avec la simulation de la strat et d'une telecaster. Quand on prend la simulation d'une masonite ou d'une autre guitare, ce problème est beaucoup moins important.

 

Some users have reported that the problem resolved itself after they had reflashed - I don't understand why that should be, and I can't see why it would make any difference -

- Je ne vois pas comment cela serait possible... Ce problème n'était pas général dans la version 1.9, mais très important dans la version 2.0 sur les 3 cordes hautes !!!

 

Pour régler le niveau des cordes on peut procéder de cette façon :

- Régler le niveau de la corde E haute de manière à ce qu'elle sonne aussi fort que lorsque on utilise le micro magnétique.

Le niveau général sera élevé (6 db par exemple)

- Régler le volume des autres cordes de la même manière, les unes après les autres.

Donc le truc c'est de se repérer par rapport aux micros magnétiques qui sont supposés être équilibrés.

Bien sur si on règle les cordes sur un micro simple, il faudra se baser sur un micros simple magnétique...

C'est ce que j'ai fait pour la position Spank-4 et le résultat est bien meilleur, car l'equilibre des volumes permet de retrouver le coté "spanky" de la strat.... 

 

Saluts.

 

Merci .... Thank you for your comments.

 

Translation into English courtesy of Google translator for the English speakers on the forum:

 

This is my case. But this is not necessarily a problem of piezo sensor. This is the modelling of the body of the guitar that produces this effect. It is sensitive to the simulation strat and a telecaster. When we take the simulation of a masonite or another guitar, this problem is much less important

 

I do not see how it would be possible ... This problem was not generally in the 1.9 version, but very important in version 2.0 on the 3 high strings!

 

To adjust the strings can proceed this way:

- Adjust the level of the high E string so that it sounds as strong as the magnetic pickup is used.

The general level is high (6 db for example)

- Adjust the volume of the other strings in the same manner, one after the other.

So the trick is to identify over magnetic pickups that are supposed to be balanced.

Of course if the strings are adjusted on a single microphone, it will be based on a simple magnetic pickups ...

This is what I did for the position Spank-4 and the result is much better because the balance of volumes allows to find the next "spanky" the strat ....

 

**** END TRANSLATION ****

 

azur1964 - how did you increase the volume of the high E by 6db ?    In Workbench HD, I can only see options for reducing volumes at both global and individual strings at the model level.    I know you can increase the output of the entire pickup and also the output of the model patch, so did you just increase the pickup output and then go back and reduce the E,A,D,G string volumes so that the end result was that the B and E were 6db louder than before?     If that is how you achieved the fix, how much lower did you need to set the E,A,D,G strings ?  And di you need to set GLOBAL string volumes differently as well - and if so by how much?

 

Thanks a lot.  (Merci beaucoup)


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#46 azur1964

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 02:12 AM

azur1964 - how did you increase the volume of the high E by 6db ?    In Workbench HD, I can only see options for reducing volumes at both global and individual strings at the model level.    I know you can increase the output of the entire pickup and also the output of the model patch, so did you just increase the pickup output and then go back and reduce the E,A,D,G string volumes so that the end result was that the B and E were 6db louder than before?     If that is how you achieved the fix, how much lower did you need to set the E,A,D,G strings ?  And di you need to set GLOBAL string volumes differently as well - and if so by how much?

 

you understand. Initially all the strings are 100%. 
After you adjusts the volume of the other strings still individually by comparing the result with the magnetic pickup. For example : 
e 100%, B 90%, G 90% D 60% 40% E and 40% so far ...

 

This is a method to restore the sound balance between the strings and the result will depend on your ears   :D
 
If someone has a better method, I'm interested. I'll try to post the preset on vguitar soon. 
 
Duck à l'orange too  :lol:

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#47 edstar1960

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:51 AM

 

azur1964 - how did you increase the volume of the high E by 6db ?    In Workbench HD, I can only see options for reducing volumes at both global and individual strings at the model level.    I know you can increase the output of the entire pickup and also the output of the model patch, so did you just increase the pickup output and then go back and reduce the E,A,D,G string volumes so that the end result was that the B and E were 6db louder than before?     If that is how you achieved the fix, how much lower did you need to set the E,A,D,G strings ?  And di you need to set GLOBAL string volumes differently as well - and if so by how much?

 

you understand. Initially all the strings are 100%. 
After you adjusts the volume of the other strings still individually by comparing the result with the magnetic pickup. For example : 
e 100%, B 90%, G 90% D 60% 40% E and 40% so far ...

 

This is a method to restore the sound balance between the strings and the result will depend on your ears   :D
 
If someone has a better method, I'm interested. I'll try to post the preset on vguitar soon. 
 
Duck à l'orange too  :lol:

 

 

Ah! Thanks for clarifying.  The solution is the same as others - just lower the string volumes of the louder strings.   Merci!       :)

 

What I want to know is why do only some people have this problem with v2.0 and v2.1 firmware?   Most people don't have a problem.   So what is causing the problem for the few that have it?   And why can't it be fixed?   It is great that we can go in and edit the parameters for the models to personal taste BUT we should not need to do that to fix a problem that may be due to an install fault or a physical component or the firmware or a combination.  If the string volumes are installed incorrectly who knows what other more subtle parameter changes may not be working as intended?   Line6 need to understand what causes the problem so they can determine the best way to solve it or to advise users on how to avoid it happening in the first place.


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#48 radatats

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:25 AM

I am a little perplexed with this whole issue.  Personally I did not notice a perceptible difference in string volume with 2.1.  However, based on everything in these posts I went in to Workbench and adjusted global string volume for all but the B and top E down 4db.  I have to say that I actually like it better now across the board!  Chords have better clarity and the higher notes are definitely more defined.  When soloing the new volumes do not seem out of whack so I am going to keep it this way.

 

I guess it isn't something I have ever considered before since regular mags don't have that option, you just get what you get.  This is another way to slay the tone dragon without adding layers of EQ to multiple patches.  And if I change my mind along the way its a simple enough tweak to put back to default or fine tune further...


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#49 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:41 AM

You can tilt regular mags to get more volume from the B, hiE strings.  Many players like it that way.


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#50 edstar1960

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:43 AM

I am a little perplexed with this whole issue.  Personally I did not notice a perceptible difference in string volume with 2.1.  However, based on everything in these posts I went in to Workbench and adjusted global string volume for all but the B and top E down 4db.  I have to say that I actually like it better now across the board!  Chords have better clarity and the higher notes are definitely more defined.  When soloing the new volumes do not seem out of whack so I am going to keep it this way.

 

I guess it isn't something I have ever considered before since regular mags don't have that option, you just get what you get.  This is another way to slay the tone dragon without adding layers of EQ to multiple patches.  And if I change my mind along the way its a simple enough tweak to put back to default or fine tune further...

 

Thanks for the update - that is an interesting observation.  I wonder whether there are varying degrees of this - some have minor and some major volume differences.  The minor go unnoticed and the major ones cause affected users to take some action.   Could it be that everyone does have the same issue but for most it is subtle and it goes unnoticed but for some it is really exaggerated which is possibly caused by another factor, such as a component or an install glitch?    But that does not explain explain the incidents where a reflash fixes the issue and all string volumes are then nicely balanced - or does the reflash correct the item that exaggerates the issue and it then simply becomes a subtle effect that is generally unnoticed?           Just thinking out loud here .....   


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#51 edstar1960

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:46 AM

You can tilt regular mags to get more volume from the B, hiE strings.  Many players like it that way.

 

You sure can - and I wonder exactly how the mags were tilted on the models that Line6 used for v2.0.   I would have assumed that they were evenly balanced when they captured the model sounds, but perhaps they were tilted in the opposite direction and therefore gave the captured model louder responses for the low strings?     Unlikely, but ..... Line6 would know for sure.


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#52 phil_m

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:50 AM

I wonder if there was some sort of compression applied to the individual strings in the prior firmware version that even out the volume before the signal went through the modeling. Perhaps the issue actually is different levels coming from the piezos, but now they aren't masking it. I do think that the 2.0 models feel more dynamic and responsive overall, so if there was a layer of compression/normalization that was removed, I could see that causing some of these issues. This, of course, is pure speculation on my part.


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#53 edstar1960

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:02 AM

Here is a demonstration of the problem after a fresh v2.1 install:

 

Attached File  JTV59-v21-String-Vol.zip   1.67MB   2 downloads

 

This demonstrates a T-MOD pos 1, I play twice from high E to low E on the 5th fret, using an AC-15 model, then I engage default NOISE GATE and TUBE DRIVE and play the notes twice again which just serves to emphasise the effect.

 

When you view this in a DAW you can clearly see how each note increases in volume, revealing that all strings are affected, and that there is in fact just a steady crescendo through to the low E.  Please note I picked each note with the same standard intensity.  I wasn't trying to pick lightly or pick as hard as I could - just a steady constant pick.


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