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Dramatic Volume Loss On Models After 2.0 Update

volume jtv 2.0 update variax

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#1 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:27 AM

Ive recently bought a jtv-59 and was using it for jamming in my house run through an AC30 cc2x, as soon as I bought it I had it setup by a pro luthier I use and it played great, I don't think it had ever been updated so was running an earlier firmware, it sounded great, although some of the models were better than others.

 

I really liked the tel, strat and lp. The mags are really nice on it too.

I decided to update the variax and now the model volumes are all over the place, the LP model is a little quieter than the mags but the other electric guitar models are incredibly quiet, the acoustic models are about the same output as the mags, I cant see a way of balancing out and increasing the models to match the mags, everything seems to be at 100% in workbench, this has made the models unusable for me which kind of defeats the purpose of having a variax.

 

can anyone help with this, I don't really want to go back, also the models sound a little thin and high endy, its a total pain having to constantly adjust the vox for each models tone and volume


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#2 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:42 AM

Ive recently bought a jtv-59 and was using it for jamming in my house run through an AC30 cc2x, as soon as I bought it I had it setup by a pro luthier I use and it played great, I don't think it had ever been updated so was running an earlier firmware, it sounded great, although some of the models were better than others.

 

I really liked the tel, strat and lp. The mags are really nice on it too.

I decided to update the variax and now the model volumes are all over the place, the LP model is a little quieter than the mags but the other electric guitar models are incredibly quiet, the acoustic models are about the same output as the mags, I cant see a way of balancing out and increasing the models to match the mags, everything seems to be at 100% in workbench, this has made the models unusable for me which kind of defeats the purpose of having a variax.

 

can anyone help with this, I don't really want to go back, also the models sound a little thin and high endy, its a total pain having to constantly adjust the vox for each models tone and volume

 

Many guys didn't like 2.0 for a whole bunch of reasons, realtive volumes from model to model being one of them. There is no magic fix except leveling them out in workbench, one by one. By default the individual string volumes for each model are set to 100%, but that's not what you need to look at...at the bottom of the screen you can raise or lower the volume of each individual model by "X" db, until everything sounds right, then flash everything to the guitar. Either that, or roll back to 1.9...lotsa guys have.


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#3 TheRealZap

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:45 AM

perhaps... but volume relative to the magnetics is never this prominent of an issue...

i'd certainly try a reflash or 2 or 6.

 

Many guys didn't like 2.0 for a whole bunch of reasons, realtive volumes from model to model being one of them. There is no magic fix except leveling them out in workbench, one by one. By default the individual string volumes for each model are set to 100%, but that's not what you need to look at...at the bottom of the screen you can raise or lower the volume of each individual model by "X" db, until everything sounds right, then flash everything to the guitar. Either that, or roll back to 1.9...lotsa guys have.


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#4 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:53 AM

its a real drag, pretty sure it was 1.7 it was running originally, thanks for the advice, would it make a difference trying to reflash? also is it pretty straight forward rolling back if I haven't been on 1.9 before?


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#5 TheRealZap

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:55 AM

it's pretty straightforward to reflash to whatever level.. just get the desired file from the downloads section and flash from file.

 

and yes... re-flashing works more often than you'd think.


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#6 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:59 AM

perhaps... but volume relative to the magnetics is never this prominent of an issue...

i'd certainly try a reflash or 2 or 6.

 

Maybe his mags are too close then...who knows? Doesn't seem like there are two identicle JTV's anywhere on earth. Everybody seems to have very specific issues, almost never exactly that same from one axe to the next.


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#7 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:23 AM

the mags are about the same height to the strings as my les paul, it was setup professionally, the balances seemed fine on 1.7, although the acoustics were a bit quieter and thin sounding, after the update the opposite has happened, the acoustics are almost louder than the mags and full bodied and the electrics are thin and quiet, pretty much everything besides the LP, although that doesn't have the same balance and body that it did have before


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#8 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:41 AM

the mags are about the same height to the strings as my les paul, it was setup professionally, the balances seemed fine on 1.7, although the acoustics were a bit quieter and thin sounding, after the update the opposite has happened, the acoustics are almost louder than the mags and full bodied and the electrics are thin and quiet, pretty much everything besides the LP, although that doesn't have the same balance and body that it did have before

 

You jumped over 2 firmware versions, and many of the models changed from 1.7 to 2.0 (if not all of them...not 100% sure). The HD models are supposedly more accurate emulations of their real-world counterparts, which might account for some of the volume differences.

 

Many don't like the strat models as much in 2.0, particularly the volume relative to the LPs. I've seen that complaint...among others...on here more than once. Not sure why the volumes are so drastically different from your mags though...that seems a little odd. Then again, there are more than a few things that can get a little odd with these guitars.

 

Reflashing is worth a try...and perhaps doing it a few times. That has reportedly fixed a handful of different issues for some, including me. Nobody knows why it works, but it seems to...2.0 firmware appears a bit unstable.


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#9 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:52 AM

I'll try reflashing it later and recheck the global volumes, thanks for all your advice today guys, still very new to variax, just in the process of building up an hd500x using the four cable method, which has been a lot of head scratching :)


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#10 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:37 AM

I'll try reflashing it later and recheck the global volumes, thanks for all your advice today guys, still very new to variax, just in the process of building up an hd500x using the four cable method, which has been a lot of head scratching :)

 

Oh... if you're using the 500x, then there's another solution. Just level out your volumes in there. I tend to have different patches, with different amp/cab combos set up for different guitar models. Sounds like a lot, but I mostly use the strats, LPs, and the occasional tele model...so once you get everything dialed in it probably wouldn't be an overwhelming number of patches on the 500x...there's plenty of space anyway. You might find that easier than tweaking every guitar model in the Variax...food for thought. Unless you're doing a lot of switching between models, or mags/models mid-song, that should work too.


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#11 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:54 AM

I am running 2.0 on my JTV and the model levels are not lower than the mag levels on any models.  The Lester models are the loudest.  It sounds like you don't have things right somehow.  Try reflashing with 2.0 or even try going to 1.9.  I have not bothered to level my models yet - they are not all the same levels but neither are the guitars they modeled.


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#12 TheRealZap

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

exactly... i'm annoyed by people that want to level them to the point of all being the same...

the dynamics are a huge part of the original guitars character and sounds....

you should really balance your tone for the guitar (or model) you're using... or consider using a different model.

In my opinion of course....

 

considering that the mags are much louder in this case...

i don't think that the dynamics are as much a factor...

i'm thinking a reflash will do wonders here.

 

I am running 2.0 on my JTV and the model levels are not lower than the mag levels on any models.  The Lester models are the loudest.  It sounds like you don't have things right somehow.  Try reflashing with 2.0 or even try going to 1.9.  I have not bothered to level my models yet - they are not all the same levels but neither are the guitars they modeled.


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#13 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:17 AM

I am running 2.0 on my JTV and the model levels are not lower than the mag levels on any models.  The Lester models are the loudest.  It sounds like you don't have things right somehow.  Try reflashing with 2.0 or even try going to 1.9.  I have not bothered to level my models yet - they are not all the same levels but neither are the guitars they modeled.

 

I agree...I haven't touched the model volumes either. Don't see the need. I expect the LP to be louder than the Strat. The JTV's mag humbucker is louder than my real Strat...that's how the ball bounces, right?


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#14 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:37 AM

yeh, im used to the differences having been using a les paul, strat and tele as my main setup before the variax but only after the update the strat, tele, semi models have almost halved in volume compared to the lester/acoustic models. just doesn't seem like real life dynamics between the guitars, I do realise this is majorly down to preference/pickups/amps/pots etc but just feels all over the place to me


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#15 paulmackay1979

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:44 AM

the main realisation for me was the strat and tele models, in the neck position they used to nearly take the pictures off my walls with the bottom end produced through the ac30, now they just sound weak and quite shrill, I have noticed that the les paul hasn't got as much bottom end also but not nearly as bad, not sure if the LP was intentional in the update


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#16 phil_m

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

the main realisation for me was the strat and tele models, in the neck position they used to nearly take the pictures off my walls with the bottom end produced through the ac30, now they just sound weak and quite shrill, I have noticed that the les paul hasn't got as much bottom end also but not nearly as bad, not sure if the LP was intentional in the update

 

Well, that doesn't match my experience at all. The Tele bridge position is pretty hot. It's not as hot as the Les Paul bridge, for sure.

 

Compared to the magnetics, I'd say that most of the models are probably a tad louder than the magnetics. A few are quieter. The Jazzbox models are the quietest models on mine.


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#17 Aavitsland

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

If a tele or strat would be as loud as a LP, i would think there was something wrong with either.

I wish the neck pup + neck/middle on the strat had a tad more treble/presence. Especially for clean Mayerish tones trough a Two Rock.. Sounds cool with more drive.

My Suhr strat sounds more open. But soundwise, more options between them though.
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#18 paulmackay1979

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:50 AM

Well I spent most of last night messing with the variax. I reflashed it to 2.0 about 6 times but the results were the same every time, the models were still weak sounding, almost banko like! I decided to try taking it back to 1.9 and WOW! All the models were back, full bodied and nicely balanced, I was quite relieved as I started to think the guitar was faulty. Knowing that 1.9 worked I decided to try 2.0 one more time but the results were the same, the models sounded nothing like the guitars they were trying to imitate.

 

I noticed a few things wrong with this update, the update failed a couple of times with an I/o midi error, causing the light to turn red on the variax usb box, there is an electrical popping noise when using any of the variax control knobs (switching tuning/models/toggling on and off) im pretty sure that wasn't there before I updated originally.

 

Besides the volume drop from the tele/strat etc, I noticed the 12 string electric was almost missing the octave strings making it sound like a regular electric and the acoustic 12 strings octave strings were distorting making it sound very nasty.

I found some balanced banks that someone had created for 2.0 on the vguitar forums and tried them, which definitely boosted the volume and balanced them more but it didn't solve the weak shrill like tone on most guitars.

 

I purchased this second hand and im glad I did, don't get me wrong, I love this guitar and the mags sound amazing in my vox but I would not have been happy spending £1100 on a modelling guitar that doesn't model properly.

 

This is a major disappointment because I love the look and feel of the workbench HD but it looks like ill be stuck on 1.9 until line 6 bring out another update or fix whatever issues myself and others are having with 2.0.


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#19 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:21 AM

There is something wrong.  The models in 2.0 should not sound weak.  If 1.9 sounds good, I would stick with it though.


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#20 edstar1960

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:05 AM

Sounds like you have been hit by the mystery firmware 2.0 ghost in the machine bug that only affects some JTV owners.  I had issues with v2.0 when I upgraded on my JTV59 - then I re-flashed a few more times and suddenly one of the updates produced better results than before and it seemed that just a bit of tweaking in Workbench HD would be all that was needed.  However, I had to roll back to v1.9 because I use my JTV59 with an HD500 and I was getting a nasty click when I swapped patches which also forced guitar model changes.   This went away with v1.9 so I am staying on that until Line6 can fix that problem.   

 

I found that if I performed the flash update while the JTV was connected to the HD500 and then to my PC and Monkey that it worked OK pretty much every time without any midi errors.   However, I had to ensure I was using the VDI cable that came with the JTV to connect to the USB dongle rather than the longer separately bought VDI cable used for live use.  The shorter cable connecting the JTV to HD500 resulted in more stable reliable flash updates - so if you have not tried that yet, then I would recommend giving that a go a few times before abandoning v2.0 altogether - assuming the nasty click when changing patches on your HD500X is not a problem for you.

 

Glad to hear that you are happy to v1.9 anyway - at least that is something - and it is where I am at and I am sure a good number of others who have been bitten by the v2.0 gremlins.   Though it would be nice to get an official answer and a fix for the mystery bugs that are afflicting v2.0.   I won't hold my breath - but I will keep my fingers crossed that it will be fixed at some point because I would like to use the v2.0 models and use Workbench HD.


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#21 dorkdog

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:20 AM

I end up doing this 'leveling out' more often than not; my reason is that most sound guys I work with (church volunteers) cannot cope with my constant tone-switching. I would end up switching to a 12-string (which was VERY loud) and drown everything out for a bar or 2 while the sound guy 'woke up' and figured out which slider to move.

 

Yes; I agree it's annoying but if you're not a pro and are short a solid sound guy it's the only option. It has been such a problem for me that, in order to go from clean to dirty with no volume change, I blend in distortion with my exp pedal concurrent with compression to keep everything even. I use my volume pot (JTV) to control something else besides volume, because if I increase my volume for an upcoming lead, the sound guy turns me back down again. I just kick over to a different patch with a more cutting tone.


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