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Drum Bleed And Reverb


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#1 JOHNNYMED9

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:59 AM

Hi guys, I have been using the m20d for a couple of months now and it has enhanced the sound of the band 10 fold, but I'm having a lot of Drum bleed into the vocal mics making them sound a little muddy. I'm just wondering if anyone has had the same problem and if there is anything you could recommend me to try. Also we are a Soft Rock Cover Band with a female lead singer and just after some recomendations for a good Reverb/effect for her at the minute I'm using Hall Reverb and an Analogue Delay but it sounds a bit washy imo.

Any help would be greatly appreciated .
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#2 antonioctd

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:32 AM

Always use the high past filter on vocals. In deep tweak go to the input section and you'll find it. 

With female vocal you can go has high as around 150hz.

This will improve vocal clarity a lot!  


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#3 toneman2121

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:15 AM

drum shield?


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I'M SO HAPPY!


#4 Digital-sound

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

I have even gone as high as 200 on the high pass. Also, I was struggling a bit with vocal clarity using the XY plot and when I got it close, I then went I to deep tweak and adjusted a couple frequencies in the 2 - 5khz area.
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#5 antonioctd

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:03 PM


I have even gone as high as 200 on the high pass. Also, I was struggling a bit with vocal clarity using the XY plot and when I got it close, I then went I to deep tweak and adjusted a couple frequencies in the 2 - 5khz area.

 

Ok. Sorry, in forums is hard to know the level of knowledge of people so I just replied with something basic...  

 

Is the singer using a condenser mic?

In small rooms condensers tend to be difficult to control...

 

Other thing that usually causes that is to much gain to compensate for a quiet singer.

 

I always say to the singer "hey! You have to put some sound out of your mouth so the mic can capture it".

I find that if I say that joking around and smiling they don't find it offensive and it even makes them more comfortable and relaxed to sing louder.

 

This is trivial also... but always go with the less gain you can!


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#6 JOHNNYMED9

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 02:57 AM

Thanks for your comments guys, gonna try the high pass filter and see if that improve s things :-) can anyone recommend a good reverb/delay setting please as I can't seem to get a nice reverb, they seem a bit Dave-in a-cave at the minute lol

Thanks again for your advice \m/
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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:48 AM

In my experience, there's no better way to derive "your own perfect" reverb from any effects system than by taking the time to "play" with its settings.

 

Time (and I mean hours rather than minutes) spent fiddling with the parameters controlling reverbed sound, using the artist in question, or a replayed recording of that artist, or (as a last resort) even your own voice (or that of someone from your crew) is absolutely invaluable, ...not only as a confidence booster, but also for polishing your "mixing craft".

 

That "Dave-in-a-cave" sounds as though it may be a reverb that's probably too large and that also has too much pre-delay. If you're committed to preset reverbs, "Hall" means just that, (think high school auditorium) so try a "Vocal" instead.

 

As you have paid for the technology, I feel that a better method would be to do some of the "parameter fiddling" I suggested above, using your M20d's "Quick Tweak". Simply running your finger over and around its "XY Display" for "Echo" will yield a staggering variety of reverbs ...and you'll soon master the nuanced and fine control it offers.

 

As for isolating the "drum bleed" that kicked (or kick-drummed) this off, I've found that low profile folding acoustic screens (the "drum shield" suggested by toneman2121) work really well, but travel really badly. Even really solid custom-made versions have started to disintegrate after a few gigs' loading and unloading, eventually forcing their abandonment.

 

Impractical for most working bands.

 

Which leaves the two most vital considerations regarding the acoustic reduction of "bleed" or "spill" into vocalists' mics, being

  1. The polar pattern of the vocal mic/s in question and
  2. The physical placement of the kit in relation to that mic or mics' pickup. 

We almost invariably adjust the second (our stage layout) to accommodate the first, as you'll see from a quick viewing of the drummers' "accommodation" in all of the live "Tonight"-style shows on network TV.

 

While it's often visually more appealing to have the drummer behind the vocalist/s, you'll appreciate that this has the effect of aiming the vocal mic/s almost directly at the kit, (known in mic pickup terms as "being on-axis") hence yielding almost maximum spill.

 

Every foot that we can move the drummer and kit towards the side of stage (lateral, or "off axis") will help.

 

Same with the bass player's speaker cabinet or that of an organ, as well as with loud bass-yielding instruments such as trombones.

 

As a general rule, small differences in acoustics (the right mic in the right place) save hours of fiddling with electronics (filtering, eq, gating, compression, reverb etc.).

 

That being said, I sincerely think that all of the "electronic" advice (especially that regarding the filtering of bass below about 200Hz for female vocals) that's been posted above is doubly impressive, in that it's both correct and clearly offered with the greatest of goodwill.

 

It's just that most experienced engineers attend to the acoustic fundamentals first, ...hence antonioctd's sage advice: "Hey! You have to put some sound out of your mouth so the mic can capture it".  :D 


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#8 JOHNNYMED9

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:17 PM

Wow!! Thanks for that RonMarton. Great advice thank you :-)
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