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How Do You 'fatten' Up A Distortion Tone?

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#1 StephenSLR

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Did a show on Saturday night and the sound guy said he loved the clean tone, nice and thick but my distortion was very thin. He said he adjusted it on the go, thickening it up whenever I’d go to distortion but said it would make a sound guy’s job much easier if I had the tone thicker to begin with.

 

I’m not exactly sure what he means by fattening up the sound, another guy in the audience said it sounded too ‘trebley’.

 

Any suggestions?

 

s


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#2 cabir

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

the audience guy is pretty much saying the same thing the engineer is saying. trebly tones are thin and sometimes brittle and harsh sounding. fatness comes from the right mix of lows and mids. well, mostly mids, but the lows kind of balance the whole tone and give it sponginess. 

 

so basically the sound guy wants you to eq your patch to have more of a low/mid body, which you should do at the amp level. if you've got the lows and mids turned up and are still getting a thin tone, try using a different mic or cab model. 

 

are you going straight to FOH or going into an amp on stage...? 


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#3 StephenSLR

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:05 PM

 try using a different mic or cab model. 

 

are you going straight to FOH or going into an amp on stage...? 

 

I was using a patch that had only effects, no amp/cab selected, going straight into an amp head and quad on stage.

 

I pretty much thought it was to do EQ, I'll look into adding EQ's to the patch to boost the lows/mids, hopefully without making it sound too boomy.

 

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#4 cabir

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:15 AM

oh ok, then you need to tweak the controls in the amp head to get more lows and mids, since that's where the preamp is. 

 

EQing at the amp level gets the basic tone shape in place. which can then be post EQed to suit the mix. it's easy to cut something that is there, but hard to boost something that isn't there. so use the EQ on the amp controls to shape your raw tone which has a certain bass-mid-treble balance to your taste. then let the engineer EQ it more if he feels it's needed to fit in the mix. i think he said, "it woulld make a sound guy’s job much easier if I had the tone thicker to begin with" because he was having to boost it too much to get the desired body in the tone. so it would be nice if your raw tone had the basic 'meat' so he's only refining/fine tuning the sound. 

 

hope this helps. 


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#5 hurghanico

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:09 AM

Did a show on Saturday night and the sound guy said he loved the clean tone, nice and thick but my distortion was very thin. He said he adjusted it on the go, thickening it up whenever I’d go to distortion but said it would make a sound guy’s job much easier if I had the tone thicker to begin with.

 

I’m not exactly sure what he means by fattening up the sound, another guy in the audience said it sounded too ‘trebley’.

 

Any suggestions?

 

s

 

a very good way to fatten up a distorted (or clean) tone is to put a MID FOCUS EQ after the amp model

you have to get used to how it works
once you've figured out it becomes very simple.. and it works!

 

our friend meambobbo did a nice description of this EQ FX in his monumental work: http://foobazaar.com.../eq#effects-mid


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#6 StephenSLR

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:16 AM

our friend meambobbo did a nice description of this EQ FX in his monumental work: http://foobazaar.com.../eq#effects-mid

 

I'm a big fan of his work, I've yet to get used to the way he picks out and removes those annoying frequencies. It will come with practice I guess.

 

s


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#7 moondancer

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:12 AM

If you use the hd distortion models it would be enough to boost the bass and cut the treble.

With the mids you have to experiment a little bit because of the different action they have.

 

What you also missed to mention:

you go into an amp head then, cab/mic to PA or cab simulation PA???

I supposed you use distortion model, is this correct or do you use the amps gain???

You should always describe your setup detailed otherwise we will have to puzzle or ask.


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#8 StephenSLR

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:17 AM

Sorry,

 

HD500 > amp head input > quad > mic. on stage > PA.

 

I used both the Line6 Heavy Distortion effect combined with gain from the amp.

 

s


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#9 joel_brown

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

Also try adding a tiny bit of 250ms Delay. 


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#10 moondancer

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:47 AM

Sorry,

 

HD500 > amp head input > quad > mic. on stage > PA.

 

I used both the Line6 Heavy Distortion effect combined with gain from the amp.

 

s

Do you use a A/B channel to change from clean to distortion within you amp?

Then boost the lows in your distortion channel of the amp.

 

It is curious the the clean sound is good an distortion thin if you use the same channel in your amp.

While using heavy distortion in the hd in front of a amp model there is no loss of thickness of the sound...

But I only go direct in the power mixer and don't have much experience with the pod in front of an amp.


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#11 Badbradline666

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

I put a delay behind an angel f-ball with an f-ball pre set excactly the same in one if my patches and it sounds very very thick.... Fat as hell
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#12 StephenSLR

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:00 PM

Do you use a A/B channel to change from clean to distortion within you amp?

Then boost the lows in your distortion channel of the amp.

 

I have a Reynold's amp, pic here:

 

http://www.ultimatem...ments-gear.html

 

It has two independent pre amp channels via separate inputs and a switch to link them. I could A/B them but I like to link them to sculpt the tone.

 

It's not a high gain amp, it's based on the sound of 50's/60's amps and has a wonderful clean tone and I now use the POD for more gain.

 

I'll try boosting lows/mids and adding a bit of delay and see how it goes.

 

It sounded pretty good to me when I was tweaking it but we're a 6 piece with keys & violin so I guess in a live situation I'll need more mids to push the sound through.

 

s


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#13 Jeremy_Shirland

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:16 PM

Use less distortion. Tones thin out when one uses too much gain. I just did two gigs with a HD desktop plugged into a miked Marshall Class 5, and it sounded awesome. I used 2 tube driver models cascaded, one for dirt rhythm, and both for leads. Never muddy, or shrill. So, my answer is proper gain staging:)
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#14 bjnette

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:04 PM

Also try adding a tiny bit of 250ms Delay. 

I second this especially if your soloing and you got another guitarist playing rhythm where he gets the thicker tone and mid scoop and you get the mids to cut thru.


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#15 StephenSLR

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

Cheers, I agree that tones thin out with more gain and don't like distortion to be too fizzy.

 

s


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#16 moondancer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:33 AM

In my very humble opinion: using a pod hd 500 in front of a good amp doesn't makes sense!

I see two ways for a musician:

1. you're looking for your very personal sound. Therefor you will search a long time a test a lot of amps till you found your favorite. You put reverb and delay behind the microphon(es) and some modulation in front or behind your amp and that's it

2. you play covers and have to copy a lot of sounds and musician. Then you buy a board like the pod hd 500 and go straight to the FOH or straight into a good stage monitor like the line6 stagesource and then into FOH.

Why?

Using your favorite amp with hd 500 is overpowered. It's like having sex with your wife and your lover :lol: Maybe you will have some fun, but the girls will make war  :ph34r: I tried the pod as a preamp into fx return from my tube combo and I must say: Better use my tube combo alone with a little reverb and use the hd 500 straight to FOH: really, really great sound.

I dial in my sound at home by earphone and make some correction in our rehearsal room. That's the best way.


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#17 StephenSLR

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:47 AM

. you're looking for your very personal sound. Therefor you will search a long time a test a lot of amps till you found your favourite. 

 

I've tried a few amps and I was never fully happy with them.  The one I settled for has a great clean tone but it lacks the distortion I'm after. I figure it's better to distort a clean amp than to try to get a clean sound from a distorted one.

 

I don't want to have 2 amps on stage so my choice is to use a distortion effect to give my clean amp more gain, I prefer to have a processor where I can create patches rather than doing a song and dance with pedals, I got an endorsement by Line 6 so naturally went for a HD500.

 

That's my 2c.

 

s


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#18 toneman2121

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:49 AM

output mode from hd?  studio direct, front stack etc

4 cable method bypassing reynolds pre

hd pre amp or full amp mode?


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#19 StephenSLR

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

output mode from hd?  studio direct, front stack etc

4 cable method bypassing reynolds pre

hd pre amp or full amp mode?

 

Front stack mode.

 

Guitar in > HD500 > 1/4 inch out > Reynold's pre amps (A&B channel combined).

 

More info here:

 

http://line6.com/sup...olume-pot-on-0/

 

s


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#20 toneman2121

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:10 AM

studio direct will fatten your sound


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