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Dt25 + Hd500x The 500's Overdrives Sound Horribel/harsh - Analog Pedals Sound Great


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#1 deloosem

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:24 AM

Hi,

 

I recently bought a used DT25 head / cab and a hd500x. I have been fiddling with it for about a month now and came to the conclusion that the Line6 overdrive/distorting models sound bad.

 

I thought it was me so I bought a couple of analog pedals like a tubescreamer and distortion pedal.

Both sound superb, directly in front of the amp or in the hd500x effects loop.

 

If I a/b them the digitally modeled stomps sound like crap/harsh and impossible to dial in a tone.

With the analog counterparts it takes me 4 seconds to find a tone that is great.

 

I have 3 days to descide if I wan't to return the HD500X or not.

 

The problem I have is if I return it that I can't access the 30 amp models for the DT25 anymore. Its a bit of a blackmail situation.

 

Did anyone come to the same conclusions as I state here above?


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#2 Goooner1

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:03 AM

Can you not update the firmware on the DT25 to access the other amp models if you don't want to keep the 500?
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#3 deloosem

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:53 PM

its updated

 

how do i access the other models without the hd500x


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#4 Brazzy

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:26 PM

Download DT Edit software for your 'puter and use that in conjunction with the midi interface you used to do the update.

If you have a newer iPhone or newer iPad you can use that but you will need a midi cable specifically for it. Also the DT Customizer app will need to be purchased.
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#5 radatats

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 04:27 PM

Hi,

 

I recently bought a used DT25 head / cab and a hd500x. I have been fiddling with it for about a month now and came to the conclusion that the Line6 overdrive/distorting models sound bad.

 

one thing I noticed is they really depend on the amp you are using them with.  I didn't like them much either at first but then I was trying them into a cranked Treadplate or P75.  I have since picked up an all tube Crate V50 2 channel 1X12 combo.  Using the 4 cable method I have a new respect for these effects into the CLEAN channel on this amp.  I don't even need them with the DIRTY channel.  And really, kind of made me rethink how I was using them with the POD.  If you already have a cranked Treadplate it doesn't make a lot of sense to stuff an overdrive in front of it.  With the real thing, you would generally put these pedals into a fairly clean amp to get that overdriven tone.  When I put them in front of a clean Blackface they sound much more like they should in the DT.

 

Just a thought, give it a try and it may save you a ton of grief...


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#6 deloosem

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:59 PM

well I was trying to get a good overdrive goin into the clean Blackface and failed with the hd500.

On the other hand, If i use a regular stomp pedal its perfect.

 

i have not tried a wah yet on the hd500, i am affraid its going to sound horrible too ...Lol

 

oh well ill keep the hd500 maybe just as a recording tool.... and will give the editor a shot


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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

Ok, just to verify - how are you connecting the HD500 to the DT amp? Are you using the Line6Link?

 

If not, then definitely try that, and use a high quality XLR cable, or even use a 100ohm AES/EBU cable. Something else you could try is this:

 

Run the POD HD in 'studio/direct' mode, and use a 1/4" cable from the HD500 out to the FX return on the DT head. This will essentially give you a direct tap from the HD to the DT poweramp.

 

While doing this, you could also try recording what you are playing using the USB out to a computer; though depending on circumstances, you may end with ground loop noise when connecting a computer to the rig, so that might be a no-go; but worth trying.

 

 


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#8 radatats

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

what are the exact pedals you bought and how do you have them set?  It may be that the models in the POD just won't match those particular pedals. Is all your gear updated with the latest firmware?


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#9 deloosem

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 11:01 PM

I connect with a AES/EBU the output mode is set to what line6 recommends (it is set automaticly when I plug in the link cable anyways)

 

The pedals is a tubescreamer (clone). I tried with boss overdrives.... even a friends expensive one (don't remember what). 

 

They all sound great. If I put an overdrive as a digital effect it sounds crap.

 

 

Yes everything is updated to the latest.

 

Anyways I contacted my supplier and am returning everything but the dt25 Head.

 

Since it takes me so long to find nothing good with the HD500x and it takes me a couple of seconds with normal pedals.... I think its wise to drop this unit back to the supplier.

 
Its just too much of a bother and a waste of time i should spend playing the guitar. Btw it does not make a difference with the amp up loud or silent.

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#10 malnack

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:48 PM

Based on this discussion and on some of the difficulties I've had getting the desired overdrive tone, I've added an Electroharmonix Soul Food pedal into the effects loop of the HD500.

 

The chain is JTV-59P into the HD500 via Variax cable, Soul Food into the HD500 effects loop, and HD500 out to DT-25 via L6 cable.

 

It sounds amazing! This is the best overdriven tone I've been able to get out of the rig. And as a bonus, my levels no longer change significantly when I engage the overdrive. I've always worked hard to keep my levels between patches correct and also level changes when the overdrive is added, but at the last gig I hit the overdrive and overpowered the whole band.

 

Now I can better control that level in a live environment.

 

 

 

 


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#11 ColonelForbin

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:11 AM

I just skimmed the previous responses, so forgive me if this was already mentioned - but it seems that the input settings can play a role in issues like you have described. Here is a link describing the issue and the solution proposed of choosing different sources for input, instead of 'same' (MeAmBobbo Pod HD guide):

 

Input settings - page 1

 

Input settings - page 2

 

"Multiple Sources = Noise

The default setting is input 1: guitar + aux + variax, input 2: same. This is not ideal - if any of the non-guitar inputs are generating any noise, it is being thrown into your signal. So change input 1 to guitar only, unless you need to use those additional inputs."

 

The immediate impact of changing Input 2 to null is a reduced signal level. This can lead to tonal changes, as the signal level impacts how much compression/distortion effects and amps will add to the signal. You should still be able to get plenty of distortion for high-gain patches, but you may be able to get your clean patches a bit cleaner.

 

Input 2

Some people have noticed that changing input 2 to variax (a digital input, which ensures silence when not connected) (or an unconnected Mic or Aux) gives them a more desirable tone. Input 2: Same/Guitar does seem to be buggy. You don't just get equal Input 1/2 signals - one of them sounds partially delayed, causing some comb filtering (less bright highs) and making the tone sound looser and slightly out-of-phase.

 

You will find your patches initially have less gain when using this. I like to try to make up the difference on the earliest effect(s) in my signal chain. For instance, if my first effect is a Screamer, I increase the Drive a bit and also the Output. Or if I have a Mid-Focus EQ, I boost Gain. If I don't have any effects, I increase Drive on my amp blocks.

The lower gain can also be a positive if you are getting breakup on your clean tones"


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#12 Tboneous

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:17 PM

 

I connect with a AES/EBU the output mode is set to what line6 recommends (it is set automaticly when I plug in the link cable anyways)

 

The pedals is a tubescreamer (clone). I tried with boss overdrives.... even a friends expensive one (don't remember what). 

 

They all sound great. If I put an overdrive as a digital effect it sounds crap.

 

 

Yes everything is updated to the latest.

 

Anyways I contacted my supplier and am returning everything but the dt25 Head.

 

Since it takes me so long to find nothing good with the HD500x and it takes me a couple of seconds with normal pedals.... I think its wise to drop this unit back to the supplier.

 
Its just too much of a bother and a waste of time i should spend playing the guitar. Btw it does not make a difference with the amp up loud or silent.

 

That's unfortunate! I have been very critical of Line 6's flagship gear. Pain in the you know what as it is, with patience, there is fantastic tone to be had.

 

For those who have not yet pulled the trigger to send their stuff back, try this:

 

First down load these:

 

http://line6presets.com/

 

These are dream rig specific preset copies from Joost Vergoosen. He is a Line 6 demonstrator from Norway or something close to it. They sound great on the dream rig.

 

These presets use only a few amp models, I think primarily the Bassman model. He uses a lot of the distortions and they sound really good. These are a good start. Learning more about gain staging will go a long way in getting great warm overdriven tones. Also, learning how to properly set up each amp model will pay greatly!

 

Second: It took me a while to figure this one out. Crank the master volume! Get those tubes heated up. Then the distortions behave in the way they are supposed to behave. I am a huge fan of the screamer and the chandler model. I own both and the HD does a fine job replicating those tones.

 

Third: Remember, the DT 50 and the HD500 are not a Fender Twin or a Divided by 13 or a JTM Plexi. Then again my Two Rock is not my Mesa Boogie. But because my Two Rock doesn't sound like my Boogie, it oesn't make me want to return my Two Rock to the supplier.  

 

For that matter, one Fender Twin doesn't sound exactly like another Fender Twin. Doesn't make one bad, just makes them different.

 

I bought some ground taco meat that was made entirely of tofu. It was supposed to taste like beef. It didn't. But it was really good! Now, I could be totally pissed off that it didn't taste exactly like beef or I could get with the fact that it's not beef and tweak it so it tastes really friggin fantastic! Which is what I did with the Tofu and is what I do with my Dream Rig.

 

It is a great sounding rig. If you are a purist, why go the modeling route? Just get the setup you want. Bada Bing! No stress.

 

Hang in there people!!!


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#13 nikoniablue

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

I've just added an Hermida Zendrive to my rig. It sounds great straight into the DT25 but hissy via the Hd500 effects loop. Is anyone else using this pedal successfully with the dream rig? Thanks
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#14 radatats

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:16 PM

For those who have not yet pulled the trigger to send their stuff back, try this:

First down load these:

http://line6presets.com/

These are dream rig specific preset copies from Joost Vergoosen. He is a Line 6 demonstrator from Norway or something close to it. They sound great on the dream rig.

 

Thanks for the link.  yes he has a nice set of tones there and shows off the overdrives and distortions very well.  It is just another fine example of how you can get anything you want out of this rig if you just spend the time and keep an open mind.


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#15 Tboneous

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:13 AM

One other discovery I made last night. Once everything is in place:

1) Presets loaded
2) Master Volume cranked up
3) Positive Perspective (Use your Dream rig to emulate the essence of a particular amp tone not try to exact copy it frequency by frequency)

Bring the rig into a large room. Get it out of the bedroom (unless your bedroom is 1000 sq/ft with 20' ceilings) get it out of the padded studio. Walk as far away from the amp as the VDI cable will allow and then play.

I did this with my Two Rock/Screamer and then with my Dream Rig (PHD/Screamer then Plexi/Screamer then AC 30/15/Screamer the models I use most lately)

The distortion on both rigs and all models sounded harsh when standing right in front of the amp but smoothed out fantastically when I walked away.

Allow the sound to spread and interact with the room before deciding that the tone is too anything.

I think some of us spend too much time right in front of the amp fiddling with the HD trying to get it to sound EXACTLY like a "fill in the amp or fx here" and then stand there longer because we can get it close to sounding like amp this or fx that, but not quite.

"Well maybe if I add some EQ, or or or what if I shove a Hermida Zendrive up my FX loop or or or….."

Take a breath, turn it up, and walk away.

You might be surprised at what you hear.
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#16 Brazzy

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:47 AM

One other discovery I made last night. Once everything is in place:

 

1) Presets loaded

2) Master Volume cranked up

3) Positive Perspective (Use your Dream to emulate the essence of a particular amp tone not try to exact copy it frequency by frequency)

 

Bring the rig into a large room. Get it out of the bedroom (unless your bedroom is 1000 sq/ft with 20' ceilings) get it out of the padded studio. Walk as far away from the amp as the VDI cable will allow and then play.

 

I did this with my Two Rock/Screamer and then with my Dream Rig (PHD/Screamer then Plexi/Screamer then AC 30/15/Screamer the models I use most lately)

 

The distortion on both rigs and all models sounded harsh when standing right in front of the amp but smoothed out fantastically when I walked away.

 

Allow the sound to spread and interact with the room before deciding that the tone is too anything.

 

I think some of us spend too much time right in front of the amp fiddling with the HD trying to get it to sound EXACTLY like a "fill in the amp or fx here" and then stand there longer because we can get it close to sounding like amp this or fx that, but not quite.

 

"Well maybe if I add some EQ, or or or what if I shove a Hermida Zendrive up mu FX loop or or or….."

 

Take a breath, turn it up, and walk away. 

 

You might be surprised at what you hear.

 

So true, Positioning & Environment is evereything when it comes to how efficient soud waves travel.

 

Radio waves from a Half Wave radio (using 22 watt output) could travel around the world if the weather conditions provided the right environment. One could communicate with someone across the seas for quite some time before the signal connection was lost, thats long enough to exchange address's in order to send each othe their QSL Cards.


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I mostly play at home  and am always having fun learning how to play guitar so when I post a reply to try and help give ideas you know where I'm coming from. Rock-On!! Oh, and if I don't respond promptly I'm probably playing guitar or my computer locked up from multitasking 'cause I'm using Gear Box, HD500 Edit, Audacity and tab filled browsers all at the same time, Hahahaaaa. Surprisingly enough my 'puter handles the load more times than not. Lastly I'm not a salesman, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything here. "Riffcasts Riffworld" "RiffRumble Entry" "Shifftie" "M.O.S.U.A Two" "Bass Catszz" "Blasted Runtime Error I" "Match 30" "The Playlist"
 

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#17 ColonelForbin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:07 AM

For those who have not yet pulled the trigger to send their stuff back, try this:

 

First down load these:

 

http://line6presets.com/

 

These are dream rig specific preset copies from Joost Vergoosen. He is a Line 6 demonstrator from Norway or something close to it. They sound great on the dream rig.

 

These presets use only a few amp models, I think primarily the Bassman model. He uses a lot of the distortions and they sound really good. These are a good start. Learning more about gain staging will go a long way in getting great warm overdriven tones. Also, learning how to properly set up each amp model will pay greatly!

 

Thanks for that link! I am always looking for new ideas for how to dial in patches for the dream rig.


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#18 Tboneous

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for that link! I am always looking for new ideas for how to dial in patches for the dream rig.

This why it would be a great resource to have a dream rig specific customtone area. If you agree, give this post a positive thumbs up and then vote here:

http://line6.ideasca...ne/593897-23508
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#19 Tboneous

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:22 PM

Really? Only 1 other dream rigger sees the beauty of a dream rig specific customtone section? You own a JTV+HD 500(x)+DT 50 and see no value in a one stop download shop for our gear? There are hundreds of possible configurations for the JTV, thousands of possible configurations on the HD, add to that the various ways to configure our DT's and we are talking about thousands of different rigs that we could share and no one is interested in a Dream Rig Customtone section?

I am vexed....

What am I missing? This seems like a no brainier to me.
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#20 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:56 AM

it's not simple... the amp/pod is one part... but custom tone does not support variax models.... and my limited knowledge on the matter is that it isn't going to happen.

 

perhaps a designation of dream rig tone by using DR-tonename in customtone using stock variax models could be community driven?

but to some the dream rig is an L-series speaker setup  and others it's a DT amp... so there would still be variables...

 

but the place you need to go for any real traction on the matter is: http://line6.ideascale.com/


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#21 Tboneous

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:49 AM

Understood. Line 6 created the Dream Rig. No one there can figure out who to call to make custom tone support Variax Models? Picking between a DT or an L-series speaker is as simple as a drop down menu with the amplification options listed.

 

simple

 

I included my ideascale link in my previous post. I'm way ahead of you on that front and yet there seems to be little interest there as well. 

 

If a little birdy is telling you that it ain't gonna happen, then it probably ain't gonna happen.

 

That's too bad. It would really be cool. It would also be really good value added customer service.


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#22 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:00 AM

I think the fact that they didn't do custom tone for the original variax back in the day....

(and the feature was surely requested back then as well...)

says that they had that conversation and decided against it for whatever reason....

 

maybe the L-series/DT series seems simple on the surface...

but try using some dream rig acoustic tone on a DT....

i think you'll find a very different beast....

not to mention that the L's use full models and the DT's use pre's... (and the DT's can use different amp settings as well.. some of which are physical in the amp and not modeled)

they are more different than you think....

not to say they both aren't great... just saying that a tone created on one... might not be worthwhile on the other.

 

Understood. Line 6 created the Dream Rig. No one there can figure out who to call to make custom tone support Variax Models? Picking between a DT or an L-series speaker is as simple as a drop down menu with the amplification options listed.

 

simple

 

I included my ideascale link in my previous post. I'm way ahead of you on that front and yet there seems to be little interest there as well. 

 

If a little birdy is telling you that it ain't gonna happen, then it probably ain't gonna happen.

 

That's too bad. It would really be cool. It would also be really good value added customer service.


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#23 Tboneous

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:48 AM

I think the fact that they didn't do custom tone for the original variax back in the day....
(and the feature was surely requested back then as well...)
says that they had that conversation and decided against it for whatever reason....
 
maybe the L-series/DT series seems simple on the surface...
but try using some dream rig acoustic tone on a DT....
i think you'll find a very different beast....
not to mention that the L's use full models and the DT's use pre's... (and the DT's can use different amp settings as well.. some of which are physical in the amp and not modeled)
they are more different than you think....
not to say they both aren't great... just saying that a tone created on one... might not be worthwhile on the other.

You are right. What i refere to as simple is not the workings of the DT vs the L-series but the ability to choose what amplification you are using when downloading a tone. If you type in the word "clean tone" in the custom tone search and choose all products, you get every clean tone for every product that line 6 makes. Why can't one of those product be a dream rig (with Variax settings, HD models etc.)?
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#24 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:01 AM

I'd love to see something like this,  as i'd find it useful... just not optimistic based on history and my own unofficial inquiries on the matter.

the ideascale post is really the best path... if not this gen, then next gen maybe...

good luck.


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#25 Tboneous

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

I'd love to see something like this,  as i'd find it useful...

...Alright then...Can a brother get a thumbs up and a positive vote on my ideascale post from an Über Guru? Where you at? ;o)
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#26 jefflynyrd

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:27 AM

I kniow you can't see me right now but I have 2 thumbs up right now... :)


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#27 Tboneous

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:56 AM

I appreciate the virtual thumbs up, but if we are ever to get traction on this, you need to be seen and heard. Hit the green button on my Dream rig customtone post earlier in this thread and then vote here:

http://line6.ideasca...ne/593897-23508

Who knows, the more that line 6 sees a growing demand for a Dream Rig Customtone, they may make a move. But they certainly won't do anything if we simply and silently raise our thumbs. Line 6 needs to see it.

I know that I am not the only one. Join me!
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#28 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:57 AM

This why it would be a great resource to have a dream rig specific customtone area. If you agree, give this post a positive thumbs up and then vote here:

http://line6.ideasca...ne/593897-23508

 

I finally registered for "IdeaScale" and gave this link the thumbs up!

 

There is a similar poll already in there, so I voted yes to both; the other poll is worded a bit different, but with similar intent:

It's titled "Customtone for JTV guitars", and the status actually says it's "in review".

 

Cheers!


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#29 Tboneous

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:05 AM

I finally registered for "IdeaScale" and gave this link the thumbs up!
 
There is a similar poll already in there, so I voted yes to both; the other poll is worded a bit different, but with similar intent:
It's titled "Customtone for JTV guitars", and the status actually says it's "in review".
 
Cheers!

Simular but No Banana! My thought is this....

You open customtone and type in "Jimmy Page". One result out of the many would be call Kashmire (for example) this result would also signify that this is a dream rig specific patch. The information on the tone would say "JTV model: Danelectro, Pickups: Lipstick, Tuning: DADGAD, Amp Model: Supro etc. The info would further let you know if patch is made for a DT or L-Series.

If you like what you see, if the patch has good reviews, you hit upload! BAM! Your guitar, HD 500 and your DT/L-series is now updated with the custom tone. All in one shot!

Why is that so hard! Imagine the possibilities!
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#30 ColonelForbin

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:15 AM

Simular but No Banana! My thought is this....

You open customtone and type in "Jimmy Page". One result out of the many would be call Kashmire (for example) this result would also signify that this is a dream rig specific patch. The information on the tone would say "JTV model: Danelectro, Pickups: Lipstick, Tuning: DADGAD, Amp Model: Supro etc. The info would further let you know if patch is made for a DT or L-Series.

If you like what you see, if the patch has good reviews, you hit upload! BAM! Your guitar, HD 500 and your DT/L-series is now updated with the custom tone. All in one shot!

Why is that so hard! Imagine the possibilities!

 

Yeah, that's definitely a good & interesting idea! I think the complexity comes from the fact that the DT needs a MIDI interface to access. However, the bulk of what would need to occur is happening on the HD500 side of things. And, since we can now update the JTV's via the HD500 I think what you are proposing has become much much more feasible with the newest JTV firmware update.

 

Just to give a nod back to the original topic, my Keeley pedals arrived today! Still waiting on the Neutrino, they are shipping those daily in the sequence orders were received, looks like a lot of demand for the new envelope funky filter! I listened to "Estimated Prophet" like three times yesterday, Jerry got that sweet sounding mutron thing going on, love it.

 

I was originally going to try to do a totally far-out thing, sending the JTV via VDI to the HD500, and then split the mags and the piezos into input 1 and 2 and keep the channels split into two amp model chains, then send the FX loop out on the mags side of the chain into the Keeley pedals; but I think I will probably stick with a more standard signal chain so I can have the four FS switches available for compressor, drive, reverb and delay. Maybe fuss around with a different effect in the drive slot if I like the Bootlegger enough.

 

I am pretty stuck on the plexi amp model, I need to diversify a little, thinking of going with a simple four patch bank, with a routing sending the FX loop out as "always on", since I now have an external true bypass Keeley fx loop pedal. Can switch on/off multiple pedals with one click, and limit the amount of external noise introduced - though it may be redundant since the other three pedals are all true bypass anyway. And I intend to put the chorus in the DT25 fx loop - still not sure this will even work, so it might end up back in the HD500 effects loop. I will know tomorrow! :)


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#31 Tboneous

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:40 AM

The original topic of this thread was that the modeled distortions sounded bad. Not sure what a Keeley or a Neutrino is. Will they help with the modeled distortion tones? Not sure a filter (Neutrino?) will help that. But then, I actually like the modeled distortions that the HD has. But if this fx loop routing thingy you've got going on helps make the distortions sound better, then please keep us posted!
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#32 ColonelForbin

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:44 AM

The original topic of this thread was that the modeled distortions sounded bad. Not sure what a Keeley or a Neutrino is. Will they help with the modeled distortion tones? Not sure a filter (Neutrino?) will help that. But then, I actually like the modeled distortions that the HD has. But if this fx loop routing thingy you've got going on helps make the distortions sound better, then please keep us posted!

 

Yes- to stay more on topic, I should have focused on that among the Keeley pedals I got is an sweet overdrive pedal! It's actually a Sweetwater exclusive from Keeley, they did a germanium transistor version of the 'Red Dirt' overdrive pedal that Keeley makes. (germanium in place of the silicon)

 

I will finally get a chance to mess with all of this stuff *tonight*! Our rehearsal on Saturday had to be cancelled; the drummer sold his house! So I was moving a car full of my gear out of there last night, so I finally have my HD500, all my Keeley pedals, my DT25, my pair of L2t's, and my M20d  all at home to mess with. Planning to do some recording samples tonight of what happens when I plug all this stuff together.

 

I got a little off topic with the Neutrino, and the chorus pedals and stuff - although, the Keeley "fx loop" pedal actually turned out to be pretty interesting, it runs either with no power, or with standard 9v power - but not with battery. It may be not needed for going this route meshing pedals into the HD500 and DT25 FX loops. But will give it a good test run tonight, focused primarily on the Keeley overdrive pedal in the HD500 FX loop - most likely right after the wah FX block. (using VDI from the JTV to the HD500, so can't put pedals between the guitar and the HD500).

 

The Neutrino hasn't arrived yet, alas, so getting super funky will have to wait... I feel about the same way about the HD500 mutron / qtron type envelope  FX as I do about the HD500 overdrives and distortions - they work, they sound decent, I tend to not dig as deep as is possible with them though, and that's where the Neutrino fits into this discussion, it's an envelope type filter that I am interested in using in conjunction with drive pedals, to get that "sound"... Thing "Estimated Prophet" Grateful Dead, or even some of the tone Jerry used when they would play "Dancing in the Streets". Touch senstive effect, the harder you hit the notes and guitar, the more the effect opens up.

 

Last but not least, in more of the overdrive world, will be pairing the Keeley four knob compressor as an outboard effect right after the overdrive pedal. I Like the HD500 compression effects as a "boost", almost like a clean boost with some EQ shaping, but it doesn't come close to that sound you get with a Keeley; the "Ross clone" kind of thing. The four knob is a touch better than the two knob- it takes the two settings which are internal in the two-knob version, and makes them external.

 

I like the sound of a overdrive pedal hitting a compressor pedal, where you can drag out the sustain by 'holding back' the output volume while juicing the input level and sustain / compression effect. That's what I am hoping to achieve anyway - may also try running the HD500 overdrive / distortion blocks BEFORE the FX loop send, so those also get 'tamed' by the outboard Keeley comp, but quite frankly I have no idea what those will do with each other - could be brilliant, could end up a noise inducing mess with too much A<D and D<A conversion going on. We'll see...

 

Here's to true bypass, playing with pedals and watching playoff HOCKEY!!

 

(Blackhawwwwkkkkkkkssss! ) :)


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#33 ColonelForbin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:25 AM

Ok mixed bag, but I did get a chance to hook up my rig at home, and run some pedals in the FX loops.

 

First thing, dannnggggg, Blackhawks lost 0-4; glad I was playing guitar that whole time.. ;)

 

Anyway, in short, here's what I got

 

-DT25 FX loop works just fine while using L6Link from the HD500.

-Placing the Keeley 4-knob compressor in the HD500 effect loop also works nicely, with:

--- noise gate after the FX loop block

--- hd500 drive FX before the FX loop (screamer, tube drive,etc)

-Keeley (bootlegger) overdrive also did well in the FX loop, before the Keeley compressor

 

Some interesting things occur when you set the Keeley to clamp down the output volume somewhat, while juicing the sustain and input gain. *Almost* allowed me to control the volume jump from the magnetic pickups to the modelled variax. But not quite - though tamed that a good bit - may be time to update the JTV firmware and take a pass at learning Workbench HD..

 

I tried using HD500 drive effects before and after the Keeley with mixed results. Before actually warms them up nicely, and keeps volume jumps from getting to severe. Allows rolling off the guitar volume to clean up the tone without dropping much volume. Using the HD500 drives/boosts after the fx loop block acted more like a clean boost; I ended up trying different boosts and compressors here, with also mixed results.

 

Wah through the fx loop into the Keeley was a bit weird, I need to tweak some settings there, try different wah models, and maybe even control the sweep range to keep it from getting too treble or bass intensive.

 

Chorus pedal in the DT25 effects loop seemed to be the best place overall for it; though it did weird things (not all bad) when I used the looper, and the playback went through the chorus pedal. I also moved the chorus to after the Keeley compressor in the effects loop, and that sounds pretty nice - though it definitely wants to be a post-amp effect rather than pre-amp model.

 

Last but not least, my M20d touch screen is on the fritz again :(

 

I had to reboot it *several times* (more than 10 to 15), load into the "setup / calibration" mode, and do this over and over  before it would even properly run the touch screen configuration. I press the button to start the touch screen calibrate, and it flashes the cross mark for less than a second, then snaps back to the main screen, but booting from there still left me with a non-functional touch screen. Then after several reboots it would sometimes display the first (top left) calibrate red cross, but touching and holding didn't function properly, it's supposed to switch to green and say release, and it just stayed red and was stuck - rebooted over and over and over again. It finally, randomly, for no apparent reason, eventually allowed me to perform the screen calibrate. It took almost a half an hour to get from first boot up and attempt, to actual calibration success.

 

Needless to say, it's going back to Sweetwater tomorrow, to get repaired or replaced. :(


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#34 ColonelForbin

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:20 AM

Will try some more recording / routing options tonight. For round two, I am going to try a version that splits the variax modelled / piezo and magnetics into two signal paths / dual amp setup.

 

For that I will only run the magnetic pickups through the fx loop / keeley pedals, with the vdi being the input to the HD500, but keeping the piezos / variax models all digital.

 

likely something that splits the chain up front and then recombines it post-amp to run through reverbs and delay

 

input 1=variax

input 2 =variax mags

 

VDI > HD500 > split dual amp path > ..

 

input1 (variax) > wah1 > tube drive(fs1) > amp model > [post fx]

input2 (mags) > wah2 > fx loop out > keeley overdrive > keeley 4-knob comp > keeley chorus > return

> noise gate > amp model > [post fx]

 

[post fx] > reverb1:'63 spring (fs2) > reverb 2:particle verb > digital delay.

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#35 ColonelForbin

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:37 AM

Got two more 'drive' type pedals on order (more Keeley!); should have those in a couple of weeks, will report back when I have a chance to mess around with the best way I come up to integrate outboard pedals into the "dream rig".

 

Definitely a nice option to open up a couple of FS assignments that I was typically programming as overdrive and compressor. Replacing those slots with outboard compressor and overdrives will leave me some room to mess with some of the phasers / mods / envelope type FX; or even just keep it simple and mess with some basic EQ, dunno.

 

I am a sucker for new Keeley stuff; they released a lighter intensity drive pedal that should pair nicely with the other overdrive that I snagged. I also noticed that they redesigned the 'Time Machine' boost pedal as of May 2014; they added a third voicing setting on the vintage side, and lowered the price. It's actually a clean boost - incorporates the Katana boost and the Java boost.

 

I like to use drives with the HD500 in a more subtle way anyway, so these are right up the alley. I typically set the amp model to be near tube breakup tone, and let the boosts add a bit of extra sumthin' while pushing the drives a little harder, but near enough to that edge that I can roll off the guitar volume to clean up the tone a touch without dropping the volume.

 

The funniest thing about searching Google for Keeley is all the mostly nude pics you get of some totally unrelated model type lady who happens to be named Keeley! lol

 

Keeley White Sands - Luxe Drive

 

Keeley Time Machine Boost (redesigned May 2014)

 

I have two ideas I still need to try, both involve running the JTV in dual mode - one idea, split the inputs into variax and mags, run the mags through the outboard pedals.

 

Another idea that just occured to me, is run the 1/4" from the JTV into the drive pedals *before* the HD500, and also connect the VDI. This would put the boosts before the wah, but that's not too big of an issue. I would just merge those signals right up front, and then that would free me up to run the FX loop in the post-amp slot, and maybe put the chorus and compressor there, if I don't keep it up front. There are pros and cons to both, and I might just be overcomplicating something that should be relatively simple - ahhhhh, the joys of modern extra complex digital fancy stuff :)


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