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Does The Jcm 800 Sound Broken To You?


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#1 steele666

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:55 PM

Hey guys,

This is something thats bothered me for a while but ive always ignored it until today when i was building a patch. The JCM 800 (at least to me) is completely unusable and sounds nothing like an 800. Granted when I owned an 800 it was a 1x12 50 watt version but it screamed. The JCM 800 may be the most influential amp in the history of rock and metal and yet its not modeled correctly (to me anyways). It has the marshall nasally mids but its lacking gain... ALOT of gain. Granted alot of people (myself included) used a tube screamer with it for the extra 'umph' but that doesnt work on the POD HD.

Ive tried using the various distortion pedals, compressors, and eq's to no avail. This amp should be able to 'get' alot heavier then it does. Ibe tried cranking the master and lowering the gain and vice versa and nadda. Im trying to build a good Slayer patch and its just fail after fail (im not a newb and yes ive read meandbobos guide).

This is the amp thats used by Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Death, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Fear Factory (at one point), Zakk Wylde, THIS should be an amp that CAN get pretty heavy... instead we're stuck with this bee buzzing mess of an amp..... Am I the only one who feels this way?


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#2 BachRules

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

I don't have a POD HD yet, but this topic is very important to me. Would be interested to hear samples of people's success with the JCM 800.


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#3 dgtr

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:36 PM

Check your output settings and guitar input pad.


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#4 joel_brown

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:09 AM

Sounded like a JCM800 to me.  I put it up next to my JCM900 and damn near couldn't tell the difference.  Sounds like something else is an issue.


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#5 rublalup

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:23 AM

totally useless model on the hd.


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#6 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 12:07 PM

Sounded like a JCM800 to me.  I put it up next to my JCM900 and damn near couldn't tell the difference.

Is there a recording you can post? Info about the settings you used?


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#7 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 12:08 PM

Check your output settings and guitar input pad.

Check them for what? What does "guitar input pad" mean?


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#8 redlight7777

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 12:17 PM

From my experience…
Yes the JCM800 model sounds nothing like a real JCM 800… 
And previous post mentioned an 800 sounding like a 900… Having worked in a music shop for years the 800 and 900 were absolutely nothing alike. The 900 is probably one of the least desirable Marshall heads created…
I played through an 1987x for years on tour… it was great, dark and muddy… But an 800 is classic rock n roll - i.e.: AC/DC and The Cult - Electric 87 era as a best example of that amp!

Hopefully when Line6 releases POD HD version 2 or whatever they are going to come up with next for pro guitar players the 800 model will be resolved as it's a necessary go to amp for Rock n Roll.

My best luck with the 800 model it is taking the gain down to like 18-20 using a Blackback 30 cab with either a 57 mic or U67 mic modeller. 


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#9 arislaf

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

https://soundcloud.c...anico/800-times

 

Sounds awesome to me.

 

! Redlight777, jcm900 is my desirable amp, john 5 tone...  :wub:


Edited by arislaf, 02 April 2014 - 01:10 PM.

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#10 RNRage

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:21 PM

I've had no issues with the JCM800 model.. Sounds fine to me.
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#11 GazzaBloom

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

I use the JCM800 and it's my core dirty amp tone. It does need and EQ in front to get it into AC/DC, The Cult, Guns 'n' Roses zones but that's all.
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#12 cruisinon2

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 04:49 PM

And there ya go...50/50 with the responses, as is always the case when the question asked is totally a matter of opinion. We could have the same discussion about any of the other models, and the results will be the same...half will think the emulation is spot on, and the other half with declare it a travesty. Round and round we go....
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#13 mitch103

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:26 PM

I use the JCM800 and it's my core dirty amp tone. It does need and EQ in front to get it into AC/DC, The Cult, Guns 'n' Roses zones but that's all.

Could you tell me which EQ's you used (i'm assuming studio?) and how you dialed them in?

 

Check them for what? What does "guitar input pad" mean?

Yes, please elaborate


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#14 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:10 PM

And there ya go...50/50 with the responses, as is always the case when the question asked is totally a matter of opinion. We could have the same discussion about any of the other models, and the results will be the same...half will think the emulation is spot on, and the other half with declare it a travesty. Round and round we go....

 

Of those who think the emulation is spot on, 0% posted samples which sound spot on.


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#15 RNRage

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

Just to clarify, I don't think the model is spot on. I do however, think that you can absolutely tell that it is trying to model a Marshall.. And personally (IMO, YMMV, ETC) happen to think that it sounds good.
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#16 cruisinon2

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

Of those who think the emulation is spot on, 0% posted samples which sound spot on.


To you.

So i'll say it again...it a matter of opinion. You think you're right, as do those who like the model and think it sounds authentic. Neither side will ever convince the other of anything. There's nothing to be "proved" here other than that these threads are a colossal waste of time...opinions are thrown around with all the subtlety of projectile vomiting, then everybody argues over whose opinion is "right". It's hilarious.
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#17 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:18 PM

To you.

So i'll say it again...it a matter of opinion. You think you're right, as do those who like the model and think it sounds authentic. Neither side will ever convince the other of anything. There's nothing to be "proved" here other than that these threads are a colossal waste of time...opinions are thrown around with all the subtlety of projectile vomiting, then everybody argues over whose opinion is "right". It's hilarious.

 

The thing where the people saying it sounds real aren't posting audio -- that's a fact not an opinion, right? Fact that they aren't posting audio?

 

If you feel you're wasting your time here, why are you bothering? It's not a time-waste for me, as I'm in the of process deciding whether POD HD is right for my needs. So if you don't mind, I'll watch and see if anyone can produce an audio sample that sounds like an 800? If the POD HD's ability to sound like an 800 is a secret ability which people can't post examples of, well I can't really use secret abilities in my work.

 

If I get enough neg-reps for requesting objective evidence about the POD HD's abilities, that's all I'll need to know about the POD HD.


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#18 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:25 PM

I have a question for the people with a negative opinion of the 800 on the POD HD: Have you tried the 800 on the red Pods, and how does that compare with the HD 800 in your opinion?


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#19 cruisinon2

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:11 PM

It's not a time-waste for me, as I'm in the of process deciding whether POD HD is right for my needs.


And you expect to be able to reach that conclusion like this? Waiting for sounds clips from someone else? You can't out-source a test drive.
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#20 innovine

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:48 PM

In the most sarcastic tone imaginable, 'if it sounds good it is good!'
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#21 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

And you expect to be able to reach that conclusion like this? Waiting for sounds clips from someone else? You can't out-source a test drive.

 

If one or ten people say the 800 doesn't sound good, I don't give that much weight, because it *could* be operator-error for all I know, no offense intended to anyone. But if no one posts audio that sounds good to me, that carries weight. If someone posts a sample of it sounding good, that's more important than a test drive, because I might drive it wrong. You could give me a real 800, and I might very well make it sound bad.

 

What's silly is people saying they can make it sound good, and then not posting samples. We all have SoundCloud. It takes 20 seconds. If a mother tells me her child is the most beautiful child ever, I'd be like, okay may I please see a photo, and if she didn't produce, I'd think maybe this parent is biased.


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#22 GazzaBloom

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

Could you tell me which EQ's you used (i'm assuming studio?) and how you dialed them in?

 

Yes, please elaborate

 

I use a Gibosn SG Std throughout a Saffire Pro14 Firewire interface monitored with a pair of Event TR8 reference monitors. I find you have to tweak the drive & master a bit to get the right level of distortion and I usually start with a bit less that I like (i currently have drive on 37% and master at about 1 o clock, tone settings are Bass 40% Mids 96%, Treble/Presence around 38/40%. I then add a Boost Comp at the front on some fairly mild settings to smooth the tone out and then one of the EQs, the EQ I use will depend on the patch and tone I'm looking for and is mainly used to dial out some bottom end and boost some high mids. I play along to a track with a tone I'm aiming for to get the mids in the right range by tweaking the EQ.

 

I don't find the EQ's particularly intuitive to use and would prefer a graphic display or curve to play with or a range of sliders across the frequencies.

 

When played alone without a track behind it some of my settings can sound a bit mid rangy and thin at the bottom end but in a track it sounds fine.

 

Settings vary from guitar to guitar and when played through the DT25 these settings go out the window and it's a whole different set up. Same with headphones.

 

I agree that when I first went to the PODHD after a PODX3 I went straight to the JCM800 and though it sounded awful and far too bassy with a horrible distortion characteristic but plenty of tweaking with EQs & mild compression has got me to a point where I'm happy with it. I did start putting a tube screamer in front but currently find the boost comp less domineering over the tone.

 

One other thing. I am constantly tweaking my tones. Set it right one one day and the I find fresh ears the next day leads to further tweaking.

 

Gazza


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#23 stumblinman

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:33 PM

I constantly tweak too, Brazzy.

Now, in response to OP:

I am not a fan of the 800, but that doesn't mean it can't sound great in someone else's hands. Everyone has different guitars, fingers, cables etc. If I'm going for a more overdriven British tone, I simply use the Soldano models with an EQ in front because I find them easier to work with and they have a more pleasant tone to me.

I won't make you a JCM800 sound clip, because A: I don't have a soundcloud account B: I play music in front of people, not in front of my computer, so any patches I make WILL sound terrible if I go direct and C: you didn't say the magic word.

Buy a Pod, try it, return if you don't like. Better do it fast before Guitar Center goes under!

I use a Gibosn SG Std throughout a Saffire Pro14 Firewire interface monitored with a pair of Event TR8 reference monitors. I find you have to tweak the drive & master a bit to get the right level of distortion and I usually start with a bit less that I like (i currently have drive on 37% and master at about 1 o clock, tone settings are Bass 40% Mids 96%, Treble/Presence around 38/40%. I then add a Boost Comp at the front on some fairly mild settings to smooth the tone out and then one of the EQs, the EQ I use will depend on the patch and tone I'm looking for and is mainly used to dial out some bottom end and boost some high mids. I play along to a track with a tone I'm aiming for to get the mids in the right range by tweaking the EQ.

I don't find the EQ's particularly intuitive to use and would prefer a graphic display or curve to play with or a range of sliders across the frequencies.

When played alone without a track behind it some of my settings can sound a bit mid rangy and thin at the bottom end but in a track it sounds fine.

Settings vary from guitar to guitar and when played through the DT25 these settings go out the window and it's a whole different set up. Same with headphones.

I agree that when I first went to the PODHD after a PODX3 I went straight to the JCM800 and though it sounded awful and far too bassy with a horrible distortion characteristic but plenty of tweaking with EQs & mild compression has got me to a point where I'm happy with it. I did start putting a tube screamer in front but currently find the boost comp less domineering over the tone.

One other thing. I am constantly tweaking my tones. Set it right one one day and the I find fresh ears the next day leads to further tweaking.

Gazza


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#24 stumblinman

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:38 PM

Do you want folks to do multiple takes with different settings to make sure they find a sweet spot for your ears? How much distortion do you want? Saturation, crunchy, or mild? Which cabinet/speaker combo are you a fan of? Any particular mic you would like? Preamp or full amp model? Bias settings you prefer? Cab DEP's? It's a slippery slope you are treading. Hit YouTube and you can probably hear enough clips to help you decide.

If one or ten people say the 800 doesn't sound good, I don't give that much weight, because it *could* be operator-error for all I know, no offense intended to anyone. But if no one posts audio that sounds good to me, that carries weight. If someone posts a sample of it sounding good, that's more important than a test drive, because I might drive it wrong. You could give me a real 800, and I might very well make it sound bad.

What's silly is people saying they can make it sound good, and then not posting samples. We all have SoundCloud. It takes 20 seconds. If a mother tells me her child is the most beautiful child ever, I'd be like, okay may I please see a photo, and if she didn't produce, I'd think maybe this parent is biased.


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#25 BachRules

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:31 PM

C: you didn't say the magic word.
 

 

My bad. Please. If I made something good with an 800 or 800-simulator, I'd be posting it so much, people would ask me to please stop posting it.

 

B: I play music in front of people, not in front of my computer, so any patches I make WILL sound terrible if I go direct

 

My bad again. I am so dependent on this computer for making music, I honestly forget that people still do it the old fashioned way.


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#26 medievil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:32 AM

the jcm 800, IMHO, sounds nothing like the real thing...could it if you spend hours and hours tweaking?? maybe, BUT who buys these things to have to tweak for hours just to get to the starting point of it sounding close to the real thing?. IMHO again, the soldono  overdrive sounds MORE like a jcm 800 than the jcm 800 does


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#27 Brazzy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:25 AM

I will gladly tweak a modeler to get what I want rather than haul around a beast of an amp, lol. With that I appreciate the abilities of these modeling devices. Are they with out problems? No, but I'll happily deal with it. If you find yourself frusterated don't fall into the abiss, but rather write a song about it.


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#28 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:17 PM

Give me an hour, I'll post a quick sound clip.
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#29 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:11 PM

Here it is. Brit J-800 Model with the default Cab (Brit T-75). I am however, using the 409 Dynamic rather than the off-axis 57. The amp model EQ is tweaked. The Amp and Cab parameters are tweaked. I used absolutely no FX from either inside the pedal, plugins, or DAW. No EQ tweaks aside from the ones done on the actual amp model within the pedal.

https://soundcloud.c...r/jcm800model-3

I'm using the modded Strat in my avatar picture. Using the bridge humbucker which is an EMG HZ H4 passive pickup.

Hope this quickie clip helps in some way, shape, or form.
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#30 hurghanico

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:33 PM

Here it is. Brit J-800 Model with the default Cab (Brit T-75). I am however, using the 409 Dynamic rather than the off-axis 57. The amp model EQ is tweaked. The Amp and Cab parameters are tweaked. I used absolutely no FX from either inside the pedal, plugins, or DAW. No EQ tweaks aside from the ones done on the actual amp model within the pedal.

https://soundcloud.c...r/jcm800model-3

I'm using the modded Strat in my avatar picture. Using the bridge humbucker which is an EMG HZ H4 passive pickup..

 

well done..

 

as expected it sounds very good..

 

there are several JCM 800 models out there and they are somewhat different from each other, this one sounds like the single channel 2204 50W one..

 

the previous modeled JCM 800 which is into the old PODs is instead the dual channel 2210 100W version, another good one but different than this one..


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#31 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:45 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment!

well done..
 
as expected it sounds very good..
 
there are several JCM 800 models out there and they are somewhat different from each other, this one sounds like the single channel 2204 50W one..
 
the previous modeled JCM 800 which is into the old PODs is instead the dual channel 2210 100W version, another good one but different than this one..


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#32 Brazzy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

Here it is. Brit J-800 Model with the default Cab (Brit T-75). I am however, using the 409 Dynamic rather than the off-axis 57. The amp model EQ is tweaked. The Amp and Cab parameters are tweaked. I used absolutely no FX from either inside the pedal, plugins, or DAW. No EQ tweaks aside from the ones done on the actual amp model within the pedal.

https://soundcloud.c...r/jcm800model-3

I'm using the modded Strat in my avatar picture. Using the bridge humbucker which is an EMG HZ H4 passive pickup.

Hope this quickie clip helps in some way, shape, or form.

 

Sounds good to me too, thanks. I'm guessing that it was the full amp model? I have to say I'm not a good one for identifying a paticular amps sounds so I can't comment on if it actually sounds like the amp in question, but again that sound clip sounds good to me. Furthermore, I can make all the amp models sound good enough to play. Speaking for myself that is, lol. Also I'm not one for trying to emulate someone else's tones.


Edited by Brazzy, 05 April 2014 - 09:35 AM.

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#33 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:23 PM

Yea, that's the full amp model.

Sounds good to me too, thanks. I'm guessing that it was the full amp model? I have to say I'm not a good one for identifying a paticular amps sounds so I can't comment on if it actually sounds like the amp in question, but again that sound clip sounds good to me. Furthermore, I can make all the amp models sound good enough to play. Speaking for myself that is, lol.


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#34 mitch103

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:29 PM

Here it is. Brit J-800 Model with the default Cab (Brit T-75). I am however, using the 409 Dynamic rather than the off-axis 57. The amp model EQ is tweaked. The Amp and Cab parameters are tweaked. I used absolutely no FX from either inside the pedal, plugins, or DAW. No EQ tweaks aside from the ones done on the actual amp model within the pedal.

https://soundcloud.c...r/jcm800model-3

I'm using the modded Strat in my avatar picture. Using the bridge humbucker which is an EMG HZ H4 passive pickup.

Hope this quickie clip helps in some way, shape, or form.

Could you upload this patch to customtone please?


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#35 radatats

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

it sounds great, as I knew it would.  The real question is who really gives a flying lollipop if it sounds exactly like any particular amp?  The only question is does it sound good or not?  Can you get the tone you want or at least close enough to be happy?  There are so many things one can do with this gear and do them well I just don't get the hangups...  If you absolutely have to have an 800 exactly, go buy one...  Or maybe spend some time with this gear experimenting, mixing and matching cabs and mics and find the tone you really want... because you can get any tone you want.  to dump this simply because you don't think the 800 is a perfect match is ridiculous...


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#36 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

Absolutely.. Give me a few minutes, just sat down to eat dinner.. I'll quote your post again and reply with the link so you get a notification.

Could you upload this patch to customtone please?

  

Agreed.

it sounds great, as I knew it would.  The real question is who really gives a flying lollipop if it sounds exactly like any particular amp?  The only question is does it sound good or not?  Can you get the tone you want or at least close enough to be happy?  There are so many things one can do with this gear and do them well I just don't get the hangups...  If you absolutely have to have an 800 exactly, go buy one...  Or maybe spend some time with this gear experimenting, mixing and matching cabs and mics and find the tone you really want... because you can get any tone you want.  to dump this simply because you don't think the 800 is a perfect match is ridiculous...


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#37 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:04 PM

http://line6.com/cus...profile/RNRage/

I uploaded it twice by accident.. They're identical.

Could you upload this patch to customtone please?


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#38 mitch103

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:27 PM

Thanks bud


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#39 Metalchef

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:48 PM

You have to remember which Jcm 800 was modeled. I believe it was a 2204 50 Watt and not the 100watt. I have no problem through my DT50 2x12 achieving pure 80s bliss with it. Add some delay and use the Analog chorus after the amp at low settings about 20-70ms and cut the depth to the 30s.
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Yes I hear the cries of the carrots.... For it is harvest day and to them it is the Holocaust..... So I say let the rabbits wear glasses....

#40 RNRage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:35 PM

No problem man!

Thanks bud


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