Jump to content


Photo

Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?


  • Please log in to reply
168 replies to this topic

#41 silverhead

silverhead

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 11383 posts
  • LocationOttawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:05 AM

.. With the piezos as sensitive as they are, they might do some strange things with a nasty fret buzz. ...

I don't know whether it applies to those in this thread but I can confirm that in general fret buzz is a very bad thing for the piezos. Any fret buzz at all can cause anomalies in the sound produced by the Variax modeling DSP. Again, whether that is a contributing factor in this case can only be determined by those experiencing the issue.


  • 0

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
.... John Lennon

 

 


#42 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

agree it "Could" be an issue..... but it seems unlikely that so many of us have the issue only on the low e string?

 

I took it for a professional set up and there was some very light fret buzz, very light...the real pickups would not it pick up ... but yes the piezo's did ... so I raised the action ... zero fret buzz but still that awful plink sound on the low E... and it does not matter what fret is played


  • 0

#43 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1106 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:14 PM

Sounds like either a bridge or Piezo problem.  I would replace the piezo on that string.


  • 0

#44 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 82 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:43 PM

Line 6 customer support has agreed to repair the guitar after they heard that last plinky, plinky recording. I am waiting for shipping instructions, and then back it goes for repair. I'll keep you guys informed on what they repair.


  • 0

#45 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:46 PM

Great news!!!

Please let us know what they say.

I will let you know what they say about mine, was told it could take another couple of weeks before I hear anything
  • 1

#46 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 828 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:08 PM

Nice. Definitely clanky and gross. Sounds like it's rattling against the bridge or piezo badly. 


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#47 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:18 AM

Interesting Soundcloud file.

Palm muting during the first segment?

 

 

Ice9mike,... I await the guitar with open arms.


  • 0

#48 ice9mike

ice9mike

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 82 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

Palm muting is used on every note. I switch to the 5th string, then the 4th, then back to the 6th all using palm muting. I did that to highlight the difference for the other strings. 

 

It will be sent out as soon as I get the shipping instructions from Line 6 service.


  • 1

#49 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:12 AM

This thing is my nightmare.My guitar sounds the same..I am waiting to hear from someone about how to fix this..I hope someone can find the solution...


  • 0

#50 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:23 PM

canerakcil,...

 

It's being looked into by techs and Customer Support people.

You haven't been forgotten.


  • 1

#51 mdmayfield

mdmayfield

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts

Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:23 AM

I would bet almost anything that this is due to the different piezo elements in the Floyd Rose bridge.

 

Unlike the other JTVs, there's no special setup that mitigates the "plink" which was always evident on the old non-Tyler Variax 300/500/600/700. I always hear that same exact annoying tinny sound in the 2000-3000Hz range on my old Variaxes.

 

I remember on the old discussion forums when Rich Renken was the product manager of the JTV, he responded to one of my questions about this that there was a solution to the plink sound made with a specially designed bridge.

 

However, assuming the 89F is using Graph Tech's solution instead of the special custom designed bridge, that's probably why this same sound that we used to hear in the old Vax is there on the new 89F. It might be that the Floyd Rose prevents the same mechanical/physical design from being used.

 

If the sound is fine on the JTV 59/69 and the regular 89 (with the hardtail and the new piezos), that seems like some very strong evidence that this theory is correct. It certainly seems much improved over the old Variax on my 69.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt


  • 0

#52 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:32 AM

 
If the sound is fine on the JTV 59/69 and the regular 89 (with the hardtail and the new piezos), that seems like some very strong evidence that this theory is correct.


I have this issue on a JTV-59p, which is back with line 6 at the moment .... Glad to hear that the problem should not exist on the 59 and hope Line 6 fix it.
  • 0

#53 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:57 AM

Supplier just called and Line 6 have replaced the piezo.... Guitar is heading back to me, will be here on Friday.... Hopefully that will have fixed it.


Will report back
  • 0

#54 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 03:47 AM

Is there any news???
  • 0

#55 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:29 AM

wellllll......

 

not had a huge amount of time to play with it, for many personal and boring reasons, but it is 'better" ... but it is still very noticeable in some model / amp combinations.

 

They replaced the Piezo, if I had to make a subjective assessment ... I would say it was a 50% improvement ... not perfect by any means.

 

:(


  • 0

#56 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:52 AM

wellllll......
 
not had a huge amount of time to play with it, for many personal and boring reasons, but it is 'better" ... but it is still very noticeable in some model / amp combinations.
 
They replaced the Piezo, if I had to make a subjective assessment ... I would say it was a 50% improvement ... not perfect by any means.
 
:(


Man i'm loosing my hope then...
  • 0

#57 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:53 AM

yeah


  • 0

#58 israz99

israz99

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 31 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:13 AM

I still think this has more to do with the modeling software than a hardware problem, the modeling program/software might be more prone to do this strange noises in some JTV variax models (read mdmayfield last post) than in others but ultimately it is how the modeling program/software reacts to the electric impulses send by the graphtech piezos that is causing the problem and you know this problem is more obvious in some virtual guitar models than in others, if it was a hardware issue then the noises would be the same in all models but actually there are models where I can`t hardly tell there's the noise while in other is so big that I can´t play with distortion.

 

Anyway if badmelonfarmer posts some sound samples again I want to hear the official answer from Line 6.


  • 0

#59 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:20 AM

you are right, the more distortion / higher gain the worse it is


  • 0

#60 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 08:06 AM

"you are right, the more distortion / higher gain the worse it is" --- Yes, gain and

distortions go together.

 

It's an aspect of amplification. Too much gain and you get non-linear gain aspects or "Linear Distortions",

or you can get clipping when you hit the limits of the circuit's gain range resulting in "Harmonic Distortions".

 

Staying within the gain limits gives a clean sound. Keeping track of gain levels though the signal chain is

needed to give a good solid sound,... unless distortion or overdrive is an effect you want to use.

 

israz99,... the Models catch the quirks and nuances of the instrument they are modeled from. Source of

"strange noises" in my experience can be a result of the set-up (neck relief, action, intonation, pick-up

height-to-string distance)

 

For instance,... if the action is off and fret buzz occurs, this gets processed with all the rest of the signal and

sounds bad.

 

Pick-up magnets being too close to the strings allows the magnetic field to pull on the strings which can

produce a warbling distortion in Model Mode. So pick-up height-to-string distance is important.

 

If the intonation is out of adjustment, the beat frequencies that occur get processed and can result in a kind

of whistling or hollowing.

 

So set-up and having the set-up being up to specs is very important on this or any guitar.


  • 1

#61 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:09 PM

how can you explain, 3-4 people has the same problem just on the same string..And i can't be able to produce that sound on the 5th or 4th string even how hard i play..if the piezo catches the unwanted frequencies why the other strings don't make that sound even i pick really really hard..
  • 0

#62 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:00 AM

-Part of it is the guitar that was Modeled from. The queries here seem to pertain to the 1959 Strat Model. It's the sound that a number of blues people covet and relish, that's why that guitar sounds the way it does.

 

-Part of it is the way the guitar body resonates. It's wood, it's organic, there are individual resonance nuances.

 

-Part of it is the set-up. Neck relief, action, intonation play a part. Also check for burrs in the string nut slots, sometimes it can dampen or buzz.

 

-Part of it is watching and controlling gain and EQ through effects and amp stages. I'm adjusting gain and EQ through my JTV's and floor effects all the time. It's part of creating the sound I'm trying to get,... my sonic signature or musical identity, as it were.

 

 

There are individual aspects at play here, otherwise every JTV would be doing this. It's a staring point to create the sound you're going for. If that Strat sound is excessive,... options are adjusting through Workbench HD, adjusting EQ, keep track that gain stages don't get away from you, and maybe  have a guitar double check the set-up for you (use an authorized Line 6 service center, as they will have documentation regarding set-up specs and such).


  • 0

#63 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

-Part of it is the guitar that was Modeled from. The queries here seem to pertain to the 1959 Strat Model. It's the sound that a number of blues people covet and relish, that's why that guitar sounds the way it does.

 

-Part of it is the way the guitar body resonates. It's wood, it's organic, there are individual resonance nuances.

 

-Part of it is the set-up. Neck relief, action, intonation play a part. Also check for burrs in the string nut slots, sometimes it can dampen or buzz.

 

-Part of it is watching and controlling gain and EQ through effects and amp stages. I'm adjusting gain and EQ through my JTV's and floor effects all the time. It's part of creating the sound I'm trying to get,... my sonic signature or musical identity, as it were.

 

 

There are individual aspects at play here, otherwise every JTV would be doing this. It's a staring point to create the sound you're going for. If that Strat sound is excessive,... options are adjusting through Workbench HD, adjusting EQ, keep track that gain stages don't get away from you, and maybe  have a guitar double check the set-up for you (use an authorized Line 6 service center, as they will have documentation regarding set-up specs and such).

well, it's not just the start model, the Tele model does it, the Les Paul model does it, Special does it, R-Billy does it, chime does it, Jazzbox does it,. etc etc

 

as it went back to line 6 in the UK, I would hope they set it up to the relevant specs. the out of the box setup when new was not great to be honest....after a decent set up it has always "felt" great.

 

going to have to try to EQ that horrible plink out of the equation.


  • 0

#64 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:32 PM

I know the techs at the UK location, they know their stuff, we

talk guitar and JTV stuff all the time. They're pretty good.


  • 0

#65 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:04 PM

Good to know, as I said it still "Feels" a great instrument ... It's just going to have to be used selectively until / IF the issue can be fixed by a software update.

Spent a bit of time today trying to EQ the plink out... Not really happening in practice, unfortunately.

Will have to see if I can find amp / cab model combinations that mask it.

AC-30 TB is pretty bad at emphasising the problem
  • 0

#66 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:07 PM

They do feel great. I own three and am about to acquire a fourth.


  • 0

#67 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:51 PM

This is a serious problem..
''Psarkissian'' you are commenting about something that you really don't know.
I get my guitar to the store and played through an amp to show the problem, they heard and get surprised because it is interesting..and then we played another jtv89f with the same amp that was fine..i play for 13 years and know how to set or how to play guitar.my guitar is waiting on the tech service for nearly 2 months and they tried everyting on the guitar.now they say that we are waiting for a new piezo pickup...

You can't say that maybe some frets are buzzing or piezo pickups can do that as it is normal or you can watch the eq and control this. This is a problem and we can't fix it by editing eq or by changing any presets or mechanical guitar setting. There is no way to fix it unless they find the cause of the problem.

I think Line6 should get help from the piezo and bridge's producer company.(Graptech)
  • 0

#68 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:42 AM

I'm saying those afore mention glitches are possibilities to check into.
It's a matter of running down the possibilities to find out which one yours might be.

I've been in touch with my colleagues in the UK (which covers your region) and my
colleagues here where I am.

We've been listening to the MP3's and Soundclouds that were sent on this subject
and trying to reproduce it here.

Also, speaking of piezos,... if there is a Line 6 tech in your area, make sure the piezo
connections to the circuit board are the correct order sequence.

''Psarkissian'' you are commenting about something that you really don't know"---
I didn't want to get into a one up's contest, but,... been playing and tech-ing guitars
(and other instruments) since I was 14 (I'm almost 60), and hired as tech and crew for
the rock band Iron Butterfly when I was 19. Been at it ever since. So I've been in this
a long time,...been doing this a long time. We all have here.
 


  • 1

#69 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:49 AM

good to know that you guys are looking into it.

 

if you need more audio clips, please let me know. Also depending where the Line 6 Service centre is in the UK ... I would be happy to demo it in person to an official tech ... if that would help narrow down the issues.

 

I am more than happy to work with you guys to try and get to the bottom of it ... if it needs to be offline, NDA'd no problem ... just would like to get to the bottom of it as it is otherwise an excellent instrument.


  • 0

#70 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:53 AM

[a little bit OT]

 

Classical guitar and synthesizers for most of my life has been good therapy.

 

And the operative word is "almost" every night.

 

Was in college or recording with a choral group the other nights.

 

And the drummer, one of the keyboard players and I have continued to be

good buds all these years. ;) :lol:


  • 0

#71 snhirsch

snhirsch

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 304 posts
  • LocationBurlington, VT USA

Posted 13 May 2014 - 01:24 PM

hired as tech and crew for the rock band Iron Butterfly when I was 19.
 

 

Heh.  Iron Butterfly used a Hammond B-3 and Leslie belonging to our keyboard player for a 1975 gig in Glens Falls, NY.  I drove it over in the truck.  Wonder if we met that evening?   If you're pushing 60 the timing seems about right.


  • 0

40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#72 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:06 PM

[a little bit OT]

 

If it was Howard Reitz on keys, that would've been 6-months before my time.

 

Only did the LA gigs, had a day job, so couldn't leave town.


  • 0

#73 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:11 PM

Yeah, we're all looking at this stuff. Just because you don't hear

from us doesn't mean we're not listening to all of you. That's why

we troll the forums.


  • 1

#74 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:57 AM

''It's a matter of running down the possibilities to find out which one yours might be.''
I agree with that but some of your entries understood by me as it's due to user error or wrong set up guitar..I respect your experience but trying to see from our side is important here.

I am pretty sure that this guitar has a faulty element and it is not due to my equipment or mechanical settings of the guitar.I am dealing with that issue for 2 months and i don't know if anybody would be able to fix this. I payed much more money than most of the people there to buy this guitar in my country and now in the forum some people trying to say that it is normal or tweak some bass mid knobs etc..

In the future if my guitar will be replaced with a new one i don't know if the new one will produce the same faulty sound after couple weeks...
  • 0

#75 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

User errors or technique can be, but not necessarily are rare, but they occur.

 

A blues player with a way of picking called "chicken scratch" is not always compatible

with modeling in general,... to give one example. For some, the artifacts are a cool effect,

for others it's not. Guitars and playing are an individual thing, part of the musical identity

we create.

 

Other times it can be set-up that's creating problems. Still others, it's a quirk of the Model

itself and adjusting EQ is the solution.

 

Bringing floor or rack effects adds complexity to it all. Lots of variables to deal with. Have a

couple things here we're trying to reproduce as a result of queries.

 

Might want to take it to your Line 6 authorized service center in the meantime. The soundfile

is in the support ticket, so I'll be getting back to that and others in between JTV servicing.


  • 0

#76 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:36 AM

"Badmelonfarmer" is there any news..can you post records to show about the latest situation of the guitar after the repair??
  • 0

#77 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:24 AM

Same as before.... really .... still the same issue.

 

yes I can record some more sounds to demo it, if it will help Line 6 .... won't be today though.

 

I did offer to help Line 6 with anything they needed to help identify the problem .... but heard nothing.


  • 0

#78 canerakcil

canerakcil

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

I think they really should ask Graphtech for this issue if it is not possible to fix the problem Line6 should find another way or give our money back..It is meanless to wait that long...This is an expensive guitar and we waste our time and money by waiting so long...
  • 0

#79 badmelonfarmer

badmelonfarmer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 131 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK

Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:57 AM

Do Graphtech make the bridge on the JTV-59p too?

 

For some reason I thought it was only on the 89f ?


  • 0

#80 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 183 posts

Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

Bridges on the 59/59P's are not Graphtech, like the 89F's.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users