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Life Cycle Of Pod Hd500x

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#1 withrowsp

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:57 AM

I was just wondering if anyone had a guess on how long the HD500X will remain the current product. I purchased an HD500 only to have the 500X be released a few months later.

 

I like many of the upgrades in the 500X, but wonder if I buy it now if another new version or updated line of floor PODs will be released soon.

 

I noticed that the price on the 500X has been discounted recently (about $100.00) at many online retailers. Is this because Line 6 is about to release a new product to replace the 500X?


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#2 arislaf

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:00 AM

We can only guess... My opinion is wait and stay with your 500...I am sure next year will come something new.


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#3 cruisinon2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

The window between a products' introduction and its inevitable obsolescence will become shorter and shorter as the march of technology rolls on. Right now we're still measuring that interval with a calendar. Eventually, we'll be using a stopwatch. Getting too attached to any one product line, from any company, is guaranteed to end in disappointment...unless of course we're talking about some company thats been around for 100 years, cranking out the same tired old crap because any innovation would be viewed as an afront to 'tradition'.
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#4 silverhead

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM

I'm sure most everyone has a guess. But that's all they are - guesses. Yours is as good as theirs.

 

It's the standard technology dilemma. There's a virtual guarantee that any technology you buy today will be outpaced 'soon'. How soon? Nobody knows. But anyone who consistently defers a purchase of current technology for fear of it soon being obsolete still owns an Atari as their only computer, and has never purchased a smart phone from any manufacturer.

 

Are the advantages of the HD500x vs. the HD500 worth the cost to upgrade? Not in my opinion, unless you are really roadblocked by the DSP capacity of the HD500, and/or you really hate its footswitches.


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#5 withrowsp

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

No doubt cruisinon2. I guess the less financially well-off kind of have to get to a place where they can live with whatever product they currently have for awhile. I sure know I can't afford to upgrade every year.


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#6 cruisinon2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

No doubt cruisinon2. I guess the less financially well-off kind of have to get to a place where they can live with whatever product they currently have for awhile. I sure know I can't afford to upgrade every year.


Oh me neither...lol. Wish I could. I still have the same Marshall 4x12 that I my granddad bought me when I graduated high school...more years ago than I care to admit. Now I happen to really like it, which is a plus...but I hear ya. My JTV and the 500x are the first significant purchases I've made in quite a while.
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#7 pfsmith0

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:23 AM

Let's say cycle time is 2.5 years. Does that make a difference in what you decide? The price drop is most likely due to the product no longer being "hot" and "new" as well as all the old HD500's are now all gone.


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#8 PANT666666

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:42 AM

I will make the point that the idea is to use the POD creatively - certainly there is so much within the 500 series that one would have at least two to three product cycles to fully exploit the options they present.

 

It took me quite a while to outgrow the Digitech RP100 I purchased years ago - not sure I really have outgrown it.   Nonetheless the POD HD500x or 500 are both tone monsters with gigantic learning curves. 

 

The reason we buy these products is to enhance our playing - they make that happen - now let's all take a knee and praise Line 6!  


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#9 smrybacki

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:30 AM

The window between a products' introduction and its inevitable obsolescence will become shorter and shorter as the march of technology rolls on. Right now we're still measuring that interval with a calendar. Eventually, we'll be using a stopwatch. Getting too attached to any one product line, from any company, is guaranteed to end in disappointment...unless of course we're talking about some company thats been around for 100 years, cranking out the same tired old crap because any innovation would be viewed as an afront to 'tradition'.

Beggin' your pardon cap'n, but I am disinclined to concur with this sentiment.  I fell under the spell of the sound emitted by the glowing glass bottles inside of Fender's amplifiers in the late 1960s and some things simply don't need to be innovated.  It's like Heinz Ketchup -- it's so good everyone else should just give up.

On the other hand, creating the next generation's glowing glass magic is certainly encouraged.


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#10 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:51 AM

Just because a company comes out with an upgraded or new product doesn't mean the old ones are obsolete.  Yes you might want the new one but the old one will still do the job it did when they introduced it.


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#11 cruisinon2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:52 AM

Beggin' your pardon cap'n, but I am disinclined to concur with this sentiment.  I fell under the spell of the sound emitted by the glowing glass bottles inside of Fender's amplifiers in the late 1960s and some things simply don't need to be innovated.  It's like Heinz Ketchup -- it's so good everyone else should just give up.

On the other hand, creating the next generation's glowing glass magic is certainly encouraged.

 

You just proved my point for me...I rest my case. ;)

 

Seriously though...which is it? Shall we bow before the "glowing glass magic" and declare it to be untouchable perfection, or do you really want to encourage innovation? Can't have it both ways. Nothing's perfect, and everything is improvable...in some cases we just haven't gotten there yet. Doesn't mean it's impossible, or a waste of time to try. We'd have none of these toys to play with if everybody thought that way. Look how far modelers have come in a relatively short period of time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I own one tube amp now, and I've had others over the years. And I like them...when they're in a good mood. But the maintenance, the cost thereof, and the fragility of tubes chaps my a$$. Every couple of years needing to re-tube a power amp or head at half the cost of a 500X...it ads up. And they weigh a friggin' ton.

 

Just my $0.02


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#12 smrybacki

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:28 AM

You just proved my point for me...I rest my case. ;)

 

Seriously though...which is it? Shall we bow before the "glowing glass magic" and declare it to be untouchable perfection, or do you really want to encourage innovation? Can't have it both ways. Nothing's perfect, and everything is improvable...in some cases we just haven't gotten there yet. Doesn't mean it's impossible, or a waste of time to try. We'd have none of these toys to play with if everybody thought that way. Look how far modelers have come in a relatively short period of time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I own one tube amp now, and I've had others over the years. And I like them...when they're in a good mood. But the maintenance, the cost thereof, and the fragility of tubes chaps my a$$. Every couple of years needing to re-tube a power amp or head at half the cost of a 500X...it ads up. And they weigh a friggin' ton.

 

Just my $0.02

Quite simply, the magic in the bottle will never be outdone UNLESS people try to do just that.  In other words, it IS the bar to be cleared.

There is a reason that amps are still made with essentially 1920s technology to this very day my friend, and these are generally the very amplifiers designs that digital modelers seek to emulate.  Coincidence?  Nope.  However, this is not to say that one day, a new bar will be raised and then it will be the goal others seek to surpass.  This is the way of things in life really.  Amplification and effects processing are not immune to this reality.  You are of course correct in your assessment of the true lifecycle of digital gear such as a POD and your point concerning the weight to hassle ratio of tube amps and pedal boards are agreed with by me. But answer me this;  If you had  a team of roadies and unlimited finacial capacity -- would you play digital or say "set it all up over there boys"?

Understand, I am not "slamming" digital or saying it isn't great in it's own ways.  I love screwing around with my digital rig in stereo.  But I've already asked myself the question I posed you, and I know how I answered it. 

"Set it all up over there boys."


Edited to add: I hope one day someone does make vacuum tubes truly obsolete 'because that will certainly sound AWESOME.


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#13 cruisinon2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:37 AM

 But answer me this;  If you had  a team of roadies and unlimted finacial capacity -- would you play digital or say "set it all up over there boys"?

Understand, I am not "slamming" digital orsaying it isn't great in it's own ways.  I love screwing around with my digital rig in stereo.  But I've already asked myself the question I posed you, and I know how I answered it. 

"Set it all up over there boys."

 

Can't argue with that...I love work, I can watch it all day, lol :D

 

I love the versatility of the digital gear though...and for me (He of Limited Funds and Herniated Discs), having 27 different tube amps just ain't an option. Maybe in the next life... ;)


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#14 stumblinman

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

I wait for the day they come out with a modeler modeler. "I used to have a REAL Pod HD500, and that sounded nothing like this modeler profiler deluxe model does".
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#15 DarrellM5

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:50 PM

I always wait for huge improvements before upgrading.  If I had owned the HD500, I wouldn't have even considered the HD500X.  Even though I love my Dream Rig, I still jam with my Variax 500 and Vetta II a lot.  It's only truly obsolete when I'm done using it.


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#16 joel_brown

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:47 PM

The magic glass bottles are great which is why I combine them with the PODHD.  Together they can put out some incredible tones, including live stereo.  Which is awesome through stereo P.A. systems that have become common today.  Hey whatever combination sounds good is the right combination.


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#17 RIblues

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:57 AM

I think Peavey is on to something with the way that they approach modeling, they model the actual components and they give you control over  which components that you want to use. It just makes more sense to me using this approach but I honestly don't know how all of the other modeling companies create their software including Line 6.

 

It would appear that this philosophy would get you closest to the "glass bottles", maybe not.

 

http://line6.com/sup...vey-revalver-4/


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#18 hurghanico

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:20 AM

..It would appear that this philosophy would get you closest to the "glass bottles", maybe not..

 

IMHO is not the greatest quantity of control parameters to define the best sound quality emulation..

 

if the quality of the algorithm for the emulation of the valve is good, it is good and that's that, regardless of how many possibilities there are for customization on it ..

 

I'm pretty sure that Line6 has modeled all components, but did not give us the possibility to control over them all, probably because it would have required additional hardware resources (=more money)..

 

having lot of parameters should serve only for customizations (which indeed could be useful in some cases), and not to get a better emulation..

 

making a comparison about quality within the real amps world:

there are amps that have only one volume and one tone (maybe), and have only one sound, but beautiful ..
there are other amps that have 20 controls, they give several tones and sound decent, but don't have a sound as beautiful as the one above ..

 

everything is relative


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#19 cruisinon2

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:11 AM

IMHO is not the greatest quantity of control parameters to define the best sound quality emulation..

 

if the quality of the algorithm for the emulation of the valve is good, it is good and that's that, regardless of how many possibilities there are for customization on it ..

 

I'm pretty sure that Line6 has modeled all components, but did not give us the possibility to control over them all, probably because it would have required additional hardware resources (=more money)..

 

having lot of parameters should serve only for customizations (which indeed could be useful in some cases), and not to get a better emulation..

 

making a comparison about quality within the real amps world:

there are amps that have only one volume and one tone (maybe), and have only one sound, but beautiful ..
there are other amps that have 20 controls, they give several tones and sound decent, but don't have a sound as beautiful as the one above ..

 

everything is relative

 

Agreed...I've seen some demo videos with the Peavey stuff. Being able to pull up the amp's circuit diagrams on a screen and move things around is nice and all, but it does me no good. I'm not an electrical engineer, and I have absolutely no idea what I'm staring at...may as well be a finger-painting. I think that level of customization is lost on the overwhelming majority of users.


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#20 phil_m

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:24 AM

I noticed that the price on the 500X has been discounted recently (about $100.00) at many online retailers. Is this because Line 6 is about to release a new product to replace the 500X?

 

Where are you seeing the HD500X for $100 off? I've looked at all the usual suspects, and it's still seems to be $499 everywhere I look.


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#21 smrybacki

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:26 AM

IMHO is not the greatest quantity of control parameters to define the best sound quality emulation..

 

if the quality of the algorithm for the emulation of the valve is good, it is good and that's that, regardless of how many possibilities there are for customization on it ..

 

I'm pretty sure that Line6 has modeled all components, but did not give us the possibility to control over them all, probably because it would have required additional hardware resources (=more money)..

 

having lot of parameters should serve only for customizations (which indeed could be useful in some cases), and not to get a better emulation..

 

making a comparison about quality within the real amps world:

there are amps that have only one volume and one tone (maybe), and have only one sound, but beautiful ..
there are other amps that have 20 controls, they give several tones and sound decent, but don't have a sound as beautiful as the one above ..

 

everything is relative

Good points here.  The OP asked whether or not the POD HD500x would remain the "current product" which to me means uncertainty over the direction Line6 will take with this product line.  Will they come out with a minor upgrade and obsolete (more on this term in a bit) the HD500x as that product did to the HD500.

Obsolete is also relative as someone else pointed out, because the HD500 still does all the same things it did when you bought it, assuming it is not broken.  Yet Line6 was able to entice at least some people who who had HD500s into springing for the 500x for what are fairly modest gains.  So they at least thought their HD500 was obsolete to them.  Some of us (like me) have stood pat on the 500HD because it isn't worth another $500 (minus whatever I could get for my HD500) PLUS the hassle of having to sell that.  At my age, hassle avoidance has become a lot more important :)

In any event, the biggest problem for me at this point is that I don't WANT to become embroiled in an endless cycle of upgrades for minimal gain.  My HD500 and JTV59 combination played through a pair of Power Engine 60s is everything I need it to be and I'm done buying digital anything until I am convinced it is ACTUALLY an order of magnitude better.  The 20% DSP gains when I never hit the limit to begin with does nothing for me. That the 500x has better footswitches actually pisses me off because I feel that my 500 ought to have had worthy switches to begin with.  That same "cheap mechanical part" issue plagues my variax in the form of a sketchy 3 position switch and magnetic pickups that cut out at times as a result.  I have worked on my own guitars and amps for a long time with nothing more than some basic hand tools, a soldering iron and a multimeter to replace pickups, bias power tubes and whatever else comes up.  But every change I've implemented short of tube replacement on failure as been because I wanted something different, not because a mechanical part failed.  Some of the knobs and switches on the gear I own are over 40 years old and still work like new.

So will Line6 come out with a POD HD600x (or whatever) one day in the not so distant future?  Most likely, unless the Amplifi line IS that replacement and they are herding us all that way which is possible.  But therein lies the biggest problem I have with digital gear despite it's upside of sound choices and ease of carrying it around. It is unpredictable as hell and if anyone thinks they are gonna stay at or ahead of that power curve, they are likely to be disappointed.


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#22 RIblues

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:41 AM

IMHO is not the greatest quantity of control parameters to define the best sound quality emulation..

 

if the quality of the algorithm for the emulation of the valve is good, it is good and that's that, regardless of how many possibilities there are for customization on it ..

 

I'm pretty sure that Line6 has modeled all components, but did not give us the possibility to control over them all, probably because it would have required additional hardware resources (=more money)..

 

having lot of parameters should serve only for customizations (which indeed could be useful in some cases), and not to get a better emulation..

 

making a comparison about quality within the real amps world:

there are amps that have only one volume and one tone (maybe), and have only one sound, but beautiful ..
there are other amps that have 20 controls, they give several tones and sound decent, but don't have a sound as beautiful as the one above ..

 

everything is relative

 

Well, a couple of things:

 

1. We don't know how Line 6 creates their models, I have not seen an in depth article from them explaining the process.

2. I imagine you have two basic approaches, one being an emulation of a miked amp in a controlled environment or another being the emulation of tubes, transformers and circuits.

 

You can get there either way and various companies use both methods so they both work, with Peavey and Positive Grid choosing the component method.

 

However, inevitably whatever method you use, the end result will be compared and judged by how well it sounds, responds and reacts to the real thing. That discussion goes on everyday here as well as other forums discussing this topic. It comes down to the goal of the company that is producing the product, do we want it too sound like such and such an amp, or do we also want it to feel and react like it, or both? 

 

It's not about how many controls or parameters there are, and more is certainly not better. It's about how you get to where you want to be. I agree that I would not want to have to play with circuit diagrams to create a tone, but you don't have to if you are not interested, it's just an option. The single thing that needs to be understood is that if digital modeling is going to continue to grow, it will need to win over the tube purist. To win them over, your product will have to do what they want it to do and that is too sound, feel and behave like their chosen amp. I think in order to accomplish that, you will need to break down all of it's components and create "recipes" for various circuitry's based on Fender, Marshall, EL34, EL84, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be complicated because it can all work in the background with the user simply choosing what amp and what effect, just as we do now. But it would be nice to be able to swap out a power tube to tweak your tone from really good to exactly what you were aiming for.

 

Back to the original question of this thread, I apologize for getting this of course.

 

I believe that the 500X came about out of necessity, It is rumored that the processor was no longer available as well as the foot switches being less than reliable. We don't know if that is true because there has been no official statement. But, it's not even a year old yet so I wouldn't expect it to be replaced any time soon. 

 

If the "next generation" of Line 6 modeling shows it's head this year, I wouldn't expect that it would compete with the "X" series. I would imagine that it would be an entirely new line at a different price structure.

 

To the OP, if you are interested in the 500X, I say buy it. I love mine ...even though I can't put 6V6's in the JCM800.


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#23 alienux

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:15 AM

Where are you seeing the HD500X for $100 off? I've looked at all the usual suspects, and it's still seems to be $499 everywhere I look.

 

I just bought one for $434 from Amazon about a week ago. It went back up to $499 5 minutes after I ordered mine, although it had been at $434 for a week.

 

bestbuy.com had it at $434 for 2 weeks before Amazon did, and 2 days after I ordered mine from Amazon, bestbuy.com's price dropped to $395.

 

Right now as I type this, it's $476 on Amazon and $395.98 on bestbuy.com


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#24 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:17 AM

Car makers come out with a new model every year.  That doesn't mean that we have to buy a new car every year.  No difference here.  If they don't introduce a feature that you absolutely need to have then your current (not obsolete but out of production) model is fine and you can save your $$ until they do come out with something worth upgrading to.


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#25 alienux

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:17 AM

I just bought one for $434 from Amazon about a week ago. It went back up to $499 5 minutes after I ordered mine, although it had been at $434 for a week.

 

bestbuy.com had it at $434 for 2 weeks before Amazon did, and 2 days after I ordered mine from Amazon, bestbuy.com's price dropped to $395.

 

Right now as I type this, it's $476 on Amazon and $395.98 on bestbuy.com

 

And now, 2 hours later, it's back to $499 on Amazon, but still $395.98 on bestbuy.com. Amazon's prices sometimes seem to go up and down based on which "marketplace" vendor happens to have their price displayed and depending on how many have recently sold.

 

 

Edit: Just looked again and if you go to the "More buying choices" on the right of the product page, Amazon has now lowered their price to $395.98.


Edited by alienux, 16 April 2014 - 09:20 AM.

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#26 smrybacki

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

And now, 2 hours later, it's back to $499 on Amazon, but still $395.98 on bestbuy.com. Amazon's prices sometimes seem to go up and down based on which "marketplace" vendor happens to have their price displayed and depending on how many have recently sold.

 

 

Edit: Just looked again and if you go to the "More buying choices" on the right of the product page, Amazon has now lowered their price to $395.98.

 

See, I was told by a friend who works in the music retail business that Line6 employed  minimum advertised pricing (MAP), meaning blowout and/or other sales sales only came via Line6 permission and that dealers couldn't sell it at any lower price than Line6 specified.  Has that changed?


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#27 cruisinon2

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:38 AM

See, I was told by a friend who works in the music retail business that Line6 employed  minimum advertised pricing (MAP), meaning blowout and/or other sales sales only came via Line6 permission and that dealers couldn't sell it at any lower price than Line6 specified.  Has that changed?

 

It's hard to tell where some of the stuff is actually coming from when you order from Amazon. It's often a 3rd party vendor, and I suspect that they're not all "official" dealers. And as long as they're still making a few bucks, I doubt they care what they sell them for.

 

I know we're talking PODs, but Sweetwater now routinely has the JTV69's for $900, and not the scratch 'n' dent ones. What's to stop some eBay-based "pro-audio warehouse" from buying half a dozen of them and then reselling them at full price? Most people would never know the difference. Then of course there's always the ones that "fell off the truck" somewhere...ya never know anymore.


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#28 hurghanico

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:33 AM

Well, a couple of things:

 

1. We don't know how Line 6 creates their models, I have not seen an in depth article from them explaining the process.

2. I imagine you have two basic approaches, one being an emulation of a miked amp in a controlled environment or another being the emulation of tubes, transformers and circuits.

 

well, I know that the following are only written words, but at pag. 4 of the Line6 Model Gallery pdf document you can read:

 

"We’ve completely reinvented modeling - Mullard vacuum tubes, paper in foil caps, carbon comp resistors and output transformers - it’s all part of the digital alchemy studied to bring you the tube feel without the tube maintenance."

 

then is up to you to trust them or not.. personally I do

 

they had a similar approach to details also with the previous modelers, but with less hardware resources avaible, that's why the HD gives a more detailed modeling..

 

following this logic, to get even better modeling you need more DSP power to implement even more detailed algorithms


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#29 RIblues

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:56 PM

It just say's that they "studied" certain aspects of tube circuitry, that's quite different than modeling specific components. We still don't know and probably will never know their approach. Whatever their formula is, they are on the right track because I think it sounds great.

 

This subject popped up because someone mentioned earlier in this thread about advancement in technology with respect to modeling and how we haven't quite reached perfection with reproducing the tube magic in sound, feel and behavior. I am simply saying that if you want to mimic tubes, then you will have to clone it digitally. That is what Peavey and Positive Grid is trying to do. Whether they have succeeded or will succeed is personal opinion like everything else.

 

Let's move on, we have strayed from the original topic.


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#30 hurghanico

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:48 PM

..It just say's that they "studied" certain aspects of tube circuitry, that's quite different than modeling specific components..

 

why should a modeler engineer waste time to carefully study the behavior of a component if he's not going to model it, and rebuild the final puzzle putting all the pieces together in their exact places?..

 

 

..Whatever their formula is, they are on the right track because I think it sounds great...

 

I agree..

 

 

Let's move on, we have strayed from the original topic...

 

You're right, but going off topic is a usual thing in this forum, and by now I am accustomed to this ..
eg I believe that there isn't one thread opened by me where
the same thing didn't happen at some point..

 

my first post here was only a direct reply to another specific post, and not to the OP question..

anyway, yes, let's move on


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#31 brue58ski

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:23 PM

I was just wondering if anyone had a guess on how long the HD500X will remain the current product. I purchased an HD500 only to have the 500X be released a few months later.

 

I like many of the upgrades in the 500X, but wonder if I buy it now if another new version or updated line of floor PODs will be released soon.

 

I noticed that the price on the 500X has been discounted recently (about $100.00) at many online retailers. Is this because Line 6 is about to release a new product to replace the 500X?

 

The only reason to upgrade from an HD500 to the HD500X is for that little bit of memory increase. And it wasn't a planned upgrade. The chip Line 6 was using to make the HD500 was discontinued and the chip they had to replace it with had more memory. They did tweak other things like the footswitches but, again,  the HD500X wasn't a planned upgrade. The 500X name was to make a  clear distinction between the two chips. Imagine the uproar if they hadn't done that and people started talking about how they seem to have more memory in their recently purchased HD500.  That's also why the HD500 has been discontinued. They chip it was made with ain't here no more. It's no that their bailing on the HD500 series just yet. So bottom line, the HD500X is a slightly better HD500 for the same price. Not better enough for me to upgrade. And it was not planned. My guess is the next gen of HD500 will have a lot more memory but with, at best, slightly tweaked or, better yet, more model selections. I'm hoping for more mic preamps and bass amps. But who knows, we'll see.


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#32 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:40 PM

The footswitch upgrade is a very good thing as well.  Not sure I would go from 500 to 500x but I'm sure glad I have the better footswitches.


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#33 brue58ski

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:01 PM

The footswitch upgrade is a very good thing as well.  Not sure I would go from 500 to 500x but I'm sure glad I have the better footswitches.

 

I ALMOST got one because of that. they seem flimsy on the HD500. They are the same ones on the X3 Live with which I have had no problems. So because of that and I've got to watch my pennies I'll be patient and wait for the next major upgrade.


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#34 bvaladez74

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:59 AM

The HD500 life cycle was pretty long considering.  It was released in 2010.  I got mine in 2011.  Pretty long life cycle for gear such as this.  


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#35 gunpointmetal

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:14 AM

And now, 2 hours later, it's back to $499 on Amazon, but still $395.98 on bestbuy.com. Amazon's prices sometimes seem to go up and down based on which "marketplace" vendor happens to have their price displayed and depending on how many have recently sold.

 

 

Edit: Just looked again and if you go to the "More buying choices" on the right of the product page, Amazon has now lowered their price to $395.98.

 Thats not a sale...thats online price-match grabbing....one "marketplace" drops the price for whatever reason, then all the others have to, too...happens all the time. I got my TASCAM US-1800 for $140 because someone misprinted the page on B&H and I got MF to price match....changed back to $249 on B&H the next day, but I still got it for $140.....


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#36 alienux

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

 Thats not a sale...thats online price-match grabbing....one "marketplace" drops the price for whatever reason, then all the others have to, too...happens all the time. I got my TASCAM US-1800 for $140 because someone misprinted the page on B&H and I got MF to price match....changed back to $249 on B&H the next day, but I still got it for $140.....

 

I don't remember saying that was a sale, but I'm glad I looked again yesterday. When I saw that Amazon LLC had dropped their price to $395 yesterday to match Best Buy's price, I called them up and was able to get them to refund $40 back to me.


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#37 zaphodboy

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:56 AM

Quite simply, the magic in the bottle will never be outdone UNLESS people try to do just that.  In other words, it IS the bar to be cleared.

There is a reason that amps are still made with essentially 1920s technology to this very day my friend, and these are generally the very amplifiers designs that digital modelers seek to emulate.  Coincidence?  Nope.  However, this is not to say that one day, a new bar will be raised and then it will be the goal others seek to surpass.  This is the way of things in life really.  Amplification and effects processing are not immune to this reality.  You are of course correct in your assessment of the true lifecycle of digital gear such as a POD and your point concerning the weight to hassle ratio of tube amps and pedal boards are agreed with by me. But answer me this;  If you had  a team of roadies and unlimited finacial capacity -- would you play digital or say "set it all up over there boys"?

Understand, I am not "slamming" digital or saying it isn't great in it's own ways.  I love screwing around with my digital rig in stereo.  But I've already asked myself the question I posed you, and I know how I answered it. 

"Set it all up over there boys."


Edited to add: I hope one day someone does make vacuum tubes truly obsolete 'because that will certainly sound AWESOME.

It's an interesting debate, especially when Line 6, Boss etc are all trying to copy as close as is possible those old amps. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just sayin'.


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#38 smrybacki

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 04:31 AM

It's an interesting debate, especially when Line 6, Boss etc are all trying to copy as close as is possible those old amps. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just sayin'.

Apparently they are hiring DSP and Embedded Systems Engineers to do this sort of thing so I guess they are still in this business at Line6:

http://ch.tbe.taleo....org=LINE6&cws=1

Man, I could live in Calabasas, but my programming experience is in the Fed world.


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#39 Digital_Igloo

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:00 AM

So will Line6 come out with a POD HD600x (or whatever) one day in the not so distant future? Most likely, unless the Amplifi line IS that replacement and they are herding us all that way which is possible.

There will not be a "POD HD600X"  ;)

 

AMPLIFi is not a replacement for POD HD500X or POD HD Pro X, although its workflow is very different, so it may fulfill the needs of people who may have previously been looking at HD500X. The PODs are still our flagship processors.


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#40 ColonelForbin

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:42 AM

From what I understand, the production shift to the HD500x was not intended or planned - it was due to a supply related issue where they had to use a different DSP processor than in the HD500. The footswitch upgrade was probably bundled in with it to make it seem like a worthy upgrade over the original.

 

And no, AMPLiFi has nothing to do with the HD series. It doesn't have any of the high-end in and outs - AMPLiFi is lacking most of the features the HD line offers, specifically:

 

-Line6Link

-XLR in

-XLR out

-Variax/VDI

-USB to use the device as an ASIO soundcard

-HD amp models (the AMPLiFi uses older amp and FX models)

 

I would imagine the next generation of HD type POD gear would take several steps up the bit depth and sample rate charts. For example, 24 bit / 192k, like the new PONO music players Neil Young has created.

 

"The PONO kickstarter campaign raised millions of dollars, and is the third largest Kickstarter campaign in the history of the site. The crowdfunding campaign for Young's Pono Music closed Tuesday, having raised more than $6.2 million. The campaign's goal of $800,000 was blown away less than 24 hours after it launched in March. The PonoPlayer, which will come with 128GB of storage, will sell for $399."

 

In that regard, the AMPLiFi is it's own world, and as such makes an interesting statement, though it did confuse a bunch of us due to the "reinvention of the amplifier" promotion. The HD and the DT series still stand as the "flagship" of the brand, until they come up with ultra-HD amp modelling.

 

I'd imagine the shift will likely address some of the other new next-gen hardware that is out there, like the Kemper Profiler. Perhaps Line6 will adventure into the world of $2,000+ POD gear, who knows - they keep their market share around the $500-$700 range, though the M20d, and the StageSource speakers have started to move their line into new price points, and rightfully so - minus the glitches and hiccups, the StageScape / StageSource equipment is really incredible.

 

Even though, it still lags behind in the realm of bit depth / sample rate - the M20d does multitrack recording and all processing at 24bit/48k, which I believe has been the standard for all the POD gear since the XT series.

 

So I'd guess they up that a fair amount, continue to upgrade the onboard RAM and processor / DSP power. In particular, they may get into dual and quad core type stuff - the M20d uses pretty high end Burr Brown chipsets, which are no slouch in the digital audio world.

 

Perhaps the next generation of POD and amps will merge the best features among the DT amp series, the StageSource speakers, and the HD POD amp and fx modelling. For example, they could overhaul the amount of control the user has over amp models - similar to the JTV Workbench, where you can literally create custom virtual guitars, merging various body and pickup models, they could allow amp models to be "custom" created, at a deeper level than currently available.

 

Perhaps they could create a true stereo DT style tube amp, merging the DT Link features with the AMPLiFi multi-speaker configuration, or add bluetooth and wifi to the POD series.

 

I think the world of digital modelling has come along way, baby! What makes it exciting and enticing, is that it captures more than just the replication of an amplifier, but the whole chain of events that occurs to get that sound to a recording or front of house mix.


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