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Amplifi 150 Suggestions. Is It Just Me?

amplifi 150 amplifi 75

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#1 gipser

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:51 PM

So far, I am a bit disappointed because the 150 lacks bottom end punch and the volume is whimpy compared to my tube amp.  It really sucks bass wise.  The celestion in it does not do the job.  I am tempted if I keep it, to stick a vintage 30 and bypass all "special design" by either fixing it or screwing it up all together, LOL.

 

I guess for a practice amp in a tiny room it would be okay for some people, but engineers, you have the right idea but your sound guy is clueless.  You need the "punch" to feel the sound.  You want to feel the mp3 at the same level of a real band playing, otherwise why would you call it a gig amp, it is not!!!!!!!!  Just put a name like "Closet practice amp" or something along those lines.

 

Then I thought, build a "real cabinet" with 13 ply baltic birch to see if you can get the whimpy sound away from it and get into a more acceptable sound.  Who knows...maybe you need about 300 watts to get the sound level up to acceptance.   Then I thought, why these engineers do not sell a sub-woofer on the side to go with it so you can hear a killer heavy metal sound or an out plug to connect to a PA system to enhance it without microphones.  The headphone plug sound is worst, too whimpy when connected to other speakers like a 2x12 or 4x12.

 

I am very disappointed and may just return it to the store.  Also, I want a unit with backing tracks with a huge database with backing tracks for guitar players so you can mute the lead guitar of the backing track and you become the lead.

 

You are close to what some of us customers need I guess with the bluetooth and the app, but you can do way better on volume and bass sound.

 

Help or it goes back to the store.  I like the multipurpose thing but man, give me some volume and punch!  Not boominess, just punch so my bones rattle! :angry: :D


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#2 cruisinon2

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 05:31 AM

I'm not buying one unless I get a pony with it....a white one named Louis.


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#3 Guitarplayer1130

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

I'm not buying one unless I get a pony with it....a white one named Louis.


Funny stuff!!!
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#4 gipser

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:53 AM

So I opened the Amplifi 150 up to see the infamous "Special Design Celestion Speaker"....  What did I find?

 

A G12P-80 inside.  The cheapest Celestion you can find around $75 retail.  Now I am seriously considering slamming a Vintage 30 in it instead,  just to see what happens.  The problem is this thin silver colored wire that is holding the back plate from being fully detached.   That is the thinest wire I have ever seen connecting one electronic thing with another.

 

The other thing I found is that the wood is really bad quality like pressed board like 1/4 inch in places.  It is this cardboard thinkness type that you find in very cheap furniture.  Yes, I understand that you have to keep costs down, stick to the price point, budgets, blah, blah but dude, why did they manufacture baltic birch plywood for?

 

Still waiting for a sub-woofer connection and 300 watts of power minimum.  If you are going to have the thing play music, you need the bass to give some character to the experience.   I am not done yet.  I am going to try one way or another to make this thing scream!

 

By the way, I was reading in other entries on an amplifi forum that a guy used this amp to gig with it and he thought that it was great.  I said what???????????    Are you serious?????????????  Is your gig at your local church or something?

 

To the Pony guys...you forgot the lipstick! :)


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#5 arislaf

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:14 PM

So I opened the Amplifi 150 up to see the infamous "Special Design Celestion Speaker"....  What did I find?

 

A G12P-80 inside.  The cheapest Celestion you can find around $75 retail.  Now I am seriously considering slamming a Vintage 30 in it instead,  just to see what happens.  The problem is this thin silver colored wire that is holding the back plate from being fully detached.   That is the thinest wire I have ever seen connecting one electronic thing with another.

 

The other thing I found is that the wood is really bad quality like pressed board like 1/4 inch in places.  It is this cardboard thinkness type that you find in very cheap furniture.  Yes, I understand that you have to keep costs down, stick to the price point, budgets, blah, blah but dude, why did they manufacture baltic birch plywood for?

 

Still waiting for a sub-woofer connection and 300 watts of power minimum.  If you are going to have the thing play music, you need the bass to give some character to the experience.   I am not done yet.  I am going to try one way or another to make this thing scream!

 

By the way, I was reading in other entries on an amplifi forum that a guy used this amp to gig with it and he thought that it was great.  I said what???????????    Are you serious?????????????  Is your gig at your local church or something?

 

To the Pony guys...you forgot the lipstick! :)

Dude, seriously, sent it back and never look behind.


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#6 mjc02865

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:09 PM

Gipser, Don't send it back (not yet anyways) ... Put the Vintage 30 speaker in and let us know how it sounds! It won't take but a few minutes to do ... No? Also, post some pictures for us of the inside of the amp. Go for it... You'll be the first to do it. What's to lose.


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#7 gipser

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:14 PM

Mjc02865

I am really busy today but I promise I will try to do the stuff tomorrow. At least the picture. The problem I ran yesterday is that it allows you to open the back cover just about an inch because of this silly thin wire that is attached to it. It is just a metal wire and I don't know the purpose of it, whether it is ground or they just put it there to verify if you have opened it in order to cancel the warranty or whatever. It is microscopically thin.

Hang in there. I have to remove a vintage from the 2x12 and slam it in the amplifi 150. I have to know the ohms they are running the gp12p-80 as well for optimun output.

Damn, if I knew a bit more about this stuff I would just run a stereo plug out to the mixer or a good stereo system to see if I can get more volume and punch. I tried from the headphone straight to the 4x12 and the volume sucked. Maybe I should do the 1/4 plug to stereo rca jacks and amplify the headphone signal and call it the day. Will keep you posted.

Don't be impatient Arislaf. I like to tinker with this stuff. I still have a few weeks of trial and error...before I call the quits and I get my money back or get something else. It is all good and people will benefit or learn from my mistakes.
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#8 Brad_Ames

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

I know zzounds does 12 month financing and has a wonderful return policy, was considering (just as something to plink for a while) replacing my aging Spider IV with this, only because I'm going to use a BlackStar Cab and some other tube head with a POD500x as my main stuff. Can't wait to see the results!
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#9 gipser

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:27 AM

Okay, I opened it up again.  These are the findings....

 

The Celestion G12P-80 "special design" is made in England in this case!!!! LOL  It is an 8 ohm speaker.  My vintage 30s are 16 ohms.  What would happen?  Probably nothing as I have tried other amps where 8 or 16 ohms (either) is okay, example the Bogner Alchemist 40-20W developed by Line 6 for Bogner but discontinued.  Damn good amp that is, but I decided not to keep it because of zero resale value.  Anyway, the microwire happened to be just a string of glue.  They glued some components for holding in place reasons to withstand the vibrations I guess.

 

About the Amplifi 150.  If you have $500 to invest in a great toy to play in your music room or bedroom, do it.  Can it be improved?  Hell yeah but I love the ability to blend your guitar sound with an mp3 song and set any level you want.  For educational purposes is great but the possibilities as I said are enormous.  Imagine to develop the software to capture what you play against the real song and tell you where you are weak in the song, the notes, etc for improvement purposes, progress or put the guitar tabs on the Ipad screen, etc.

 

Now, I ran the headphone jack to my Yamaha mixer (1/4" stereo plug one end +- rca males on the other end).  I detected a hum but could play the song okay.  You could not hear the guitar in the mix as good so you may have to plug direct to the mixer and blend it with the control panel of the mixer or bypass the amplifi 150 altogether and plug direct to the mixer both your ipad songs and your guitar, effects, etc.  As a side note, when you connect your headphones the speakers are disabled because it makes an either/or logical sense.  But they ought to have a line output so you can take advantage of the 5 speaker sound of this box.

 

Lastly, there are 2 speakers in one, right and left top.  There are two bottom tubes that have no speakers and I gues is for air to escape when being pushed by the main speaker and to get rid off any boominess you may hear.  Now, keep in mind that these are observations of a regular Joe with no electronic or sound experience or knowledge.  I just like to see what's inside the box and give them hell so they make better stuff to accomodate current customer's needs.  Also, I find "unacceptable" that there is no real "manual" to download but that dumb 2 pager called "pilot" something.   There is a USB connector "for future development".....hello?  What about a damn two rca jacks to make this baby scream with a side amp and speakers?  Too much?  Defeats the purpose?  Who knows, I wan my cake and eat it too! ;)

 

 

 

celestion_zps384ba796.jpgcircuitry2_zps64f32ee1.jpgcircuitry1_zpsb3450111.jpg


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#10 Brad_Ames

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:38 PM

Neato, I just feel the 75w should be no more than $275 and 150w $325 for what they do as of right now...I may wait till next generation to buy one if it gets a huge improvement, great job though!
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#11 cruisinon2

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:27 PM

Okay, I opened it up again. These are the findings....

The Celestion G12P-80 "special design" is made in England in this case!!!! LOL It is an 8 ohm speaker. My vintage 30s are 16 ohms. What would happen?

 


What happens is you lose power. You're doubling the resistance the amp is expecting to see, thus your 150W amp isn't 150W anymore. Will it damage anything? Probabaly not, because in this case you're pushing uphill...though this seems to be a debated topic, as I've had people tell me that it's impossible to do without damaging something, especially with a tube amp. Despite that opinion, I ran an 8 ohm rated power amp into a 16 ohm cabinet for years with no issues. What you never want to do is run an 8 ohm amp into a 4 ohm load...that's asking for trouble, and may require a fire extinguisher. Generally speaking, it's best to match the amp's impedance to the an appropriate speaker. That's why the numbers are there in the first place, and then you don't have to think about any of this crap.


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#12 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:58 AM

Remember that these are digital solid state amps not tube amps!  I would be careful about changing the speaker impedance too much.  Higher is probably ok - you will lose power output but lower could damage the amplifiers.


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#13 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:00 AM

Remember that these are digital solid state amps not tube amps!  I would be careful about changing the speaker impedance too much.  Higher is probably ok - you will lose power output but lower could damage the amplifiers.

 

See this is what always baffles me...if you wander the interwebs on various forums, you will find basically a 50/50 split between those who claim that it's the tube amps that are more susceptible to impedance mismatches, vs. those who say as you have, that it's the SS amps where it matters most. Likewise, I've seen people claim that it's fine to "push uphill", and supply a higher load to the amp that it asks for (at the expense of power), and I've seen some claim the opposite (which seems counter-intuitive to me, but what do I know?).

 

I conclude that there are actually very few people who have any idea what they are talking about...and perhaps in this case there really is no completely objective truth on the matter at all. I honestly don't know.

 

What I do know is that I spent the better part of a decade pushing an 8ohm SS amp into a 16ohm cabinet, sometimes at rather absurd volumes, and suffered neither fried amp, nor speakers. And if there was a power loss, it never bothered me...that rig was plenty loud.

 

Now, for the sake of simplicity and not popping a rivet trying to figure out what the "truth" is, I just match everything...now I can buy all my strings with the money I used to spend on Excedrine Migraine.


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#14 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:21 AM

That is because you don't have to know your A$$ from a hole in the ground to reply on a forum.  Anyone that has been around tube amps knows that you can put a smaller impedance load on them without damage but that you can kill the Output transformer by running with no speaker load.  (open circuit)  Solid state amps it depends on the circuit.  Most will run with a higher impedance load with no problems but I am not sure what Line 6's Digital amps are going to do with a different load than what they were designed for.  Bottom line is that you are on your own to try a different impedance speaker.


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#15 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:00 PM

That is because you don't have to know your A$$ from a hole in the ground to reply on a forum. 

 

True, but on this particular topic I've encountered numerous people over the years (in person, the way humans used to interact :P ) who didn't seem to know the answer either...and all of that was LONG before we all became addicted to this cursed fiberoptic time-waster.

 

Anyone that has been around tube amps knows that you can put a smaller impedance load on them without damage

 

I've been around them plenty, and mostly I've been told you can never do that regardless of the type of amp you're using. Intuitively it just seems like a really bad idea. Can't put 10 lbs of $hit in a 5 lb bag. If an amp is expecting a certain resistance, and less resistance is provided, seems like something will eventually give...

 

but that you can kill the Output transformer by running with no speaker load. 

 

This is the one part that most everybody seems to agree on.

 

(open circuit)  Solid state amps it depends on the circuit.  Most will run with a higher impedance load with no problems but I am not sure what Line 6's Digital amps are going to do with a different load than what they were designed for. 

 

And that's why I said, maybe there's no 100% objective answer. Seems that sometimes it's OK, and others not. Hell, I've done it and never fried anything, so it's obviously not an all or nothing proposition...but with the added bonus of never being able to tell when it's OK and when it's not.

 

Which of course leads us to:

 

Bottom line is that you are on your own to try a different impedance speaker.

 

This looks familar...oh yeah, square one!  Still not really knowing if there even IS an answer to this burning conundrum...which is precisely why I don't mismatch anymore. Easier on an aging brain... :D


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#16 phil_m

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

Solid state amps generally don't care about output impedance until you reach a minimum threshold. Below that is when you get into conditions that are similar to a short circuit, and that can damage the output transistors. It's pretty much the opposite of the way valve amps behave. If you connect a higher impedance load to a tube amp, you can shorten the life of the tubes and damage the output transformer if you get too high.


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#17 Guitarplayer1130

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:29 PM

We don't want to get TOO high, now do we ?? LOL
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#18 gipser

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:55 PM

Still.....

 

- Let's not forget that the g12p-80 Celestion has to be broken in, in order to see it real tone dimensions of the OEM set up, so the jury is still out.


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#19 Guitarplayer1130

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:39 PM

What do the Line 6 gurus say about breaking in the speakers ? I would like to know the official take on that. I've had mine almost a week now and I've cranked it up since day one. So far I've not experienced any negative sounds.

Now by saying "cranked it up", I mean to a level of about 50% or so. The 150 gets really loud at that level and I can't think of any situation where I would need to go too far above that level.
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#20 gipser

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:08 PM

Oh man, I crank it up full blast and a lot.  You need to break in the speaker.  A wide range of tones is the best.  Put it in a room or closet by itself and let it sing loud.  Put a pillow in front of it,if you live in an apartment.

 

The loudness is annoying for the mp3 side of things.  It lacks the bass even for the guitar.  It gives me an ear acke where my tube amp and cabinets do not and they are louder.  For a guitar is excellent and it is crisp and clear.  But if you want to mow down the place, you are screwed.  Any drummer would overpower your sound in a second unless you mike your 150 in a small to medium size venue situation.  It is not a gig amp by any means in my opinion unless you are into folk music...LOL


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#21 phil_m

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:01 PM

The 150 is certainly loud enough for me to gig with, and that's not playing folk music or with a quiet drummer, either. I think most guitarists are using rigs that are too powerful for most spaces they play in, to be honest.


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#22 radatats

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:09 PM

does the Celestion actually say "Made in England" or just show the company's address in England?  I have a pair of Vintage 30's that I thought were made in England till I found the tiny sticker near the voice coil that said made in China...  They still sound great but it was a disappointment...  I will never buy another speaker not made in the USA.  

 

Check out Warehouse Guitar Speakers - https://wgs4.com/


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#23 archtopeddy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:14 PM

+1 on what Phil said.  I know I've made comments here about it not being ideal for gigs, however, my comments have to do with the need for more flexibility (.i.e., additional preset tones), and a preference to see a more robust blue tooth capability -- it does not have to do with volume, which I think is more than sufficient for my uses with a drummer (and percussionist) in reggae, surf, jump blues, and jazz.  This isn't the amp for bands where the drummer tries to sound louder than everyone else and everyone else tries to sound louder than the drummer and everyone else.  Frankly, I don't see why anyone would think it was. Just look at it. You can see it's not designed to go head-to-head with a Marshall stack.


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#24 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:43 PM

Made in China is my bet.


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#25 archtopeddy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:05 PM

Made in China is my bet.

...just like the rest of the amp.  I don't know why that's an issue though.


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#26 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:48 AM

It's not an issue - just an unfortunate fact of life.


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#27 radatats

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:21 AM

...just like the rest of the amp.  I don't know why that's an issue though.

just curious since he stated it was actually made in England and I was a little surprised to hear that, pretty unlikely.  It's more of a personal preference.  Where possible, I will buy US made, if I can afford it.  I am well aware that much of what I own is made in China and quite frankly can't afford the US versions...  BUT... if given a choice...


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#28 archtopeddy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:44 AM

It's not an issue - just an unfortunate fact of life.

 

Where possible, I will buy US made, if I can afford it. 

 

Understand and agree.  I too love my USA-made stuff; most of it the old school gear that hasn't been made here in years.


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