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Questions Regarding Hd500x For Stage Use


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#1 justcrash

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:28 AM

Morning all, and Happy Easter! My band's next gig is May 10th. I want to use my new HD500X for my tone, direct into the PA. I don't have an FRFR yet to monitor myself, so here are my questions:

Does using stereo effects and putting the amps hard/left right make a difference, even if running both XLRs to the PA? Both outputs, I assume, would come out of both sides of the stage, right? So using stereo delay, as opposed to digital delay, would be a waste?

If I do use both XLRs, with the HD500X allow me to also use the 1/4 out so I can monitor myself?

Next question: since I don't have a FRFR, I was going to take my 6 channel PA head with my signal into my 2x12 guitar cab. I know a guitar cab will color my sound, but I would just be using it to hear myself on stage.

How do you guys run it? I also have monitors we use for when we have to run our own sound (wedges) but I'm not sure if they could get loud enough for me to hear over my drummer.

Suggestions? I am completely open to ideas. :)
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#2 jandrio

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:36 AM

Using true stereo really makes BIG diff. Use both XLRs and ask sound guy to pan 100% L+R each channel. Set HD500 2 "Studio direct" output mode.  And,  yes, u can use the 1/4 out connected 2 an amp FX loop return jack.

In my case, I connect the JTV via VDI to the HD500 and I am using only the XLR’s out to the PA for ALL sounds (acoustic + electric) with “Studio direct” output mode.  I run the 1/4 out of the HD500 to my amp’s effects loop return, thus using the amp only as stage monitor.  The only drawback in this arrangement is that the stage sound that comes out from the amp is not 100% perfect, but the advantages are many:

1) The audience receives pure HD stereo studio sound through the PA, both acoustic AND electring sounds are amazing.

2) Each song in the play list has one or more presets, including JTV settings (model selection, variax mags input, tone, volume settings and tunings).

3) I can use both variax+variax mags simultaneously (very convenient for Stairway to heaven, Have you ever seen the rain and many other songs).  In other words, it is possible to use one channel for electric guitar (variax mags) and the other for acoustic (variax).  In some cases the combination of 2 electric guitars (eq JTV69S mags+VARIAX LESTER for Hotel California harmony solo part) is also possible.

4) All presets are level (volume) balanced with each other (a very time consuming process), so the “next song guys 1-2-3-4” interval is only a “click” away.

5) The JTV69S+HD500 rig can be fully operational at any PA equipped venue (I mean that the amp is not critical if the sound guy can provide me with a stage monitor).

6) The stage setup time is minimal (unpack, connect VDI, connect XLR’s, connect power supply, eq the two PA guitar channels, done!).

 

7) The amp acts as n "emergency backup unit" in case the HD500 breaks down.

I came to the above setup after experimenting with various tube amps as the main sound source (micked to PA), but although the electric guitar sounds were really good, I was never able to achieve a good acoustic sound thru the JTV.


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#3 justcrash

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:58 AM

Ok, this is really helpful. I don't own a variax (YET!), so I don't know what you mean by variax mags?

 

As far as the amp for monitoring purposes, I only need to come out of the HD500x into the effects loop return, no other cables?


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#4 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:07 AM

Ok, this is really helpful. I don't own a variax (YET!), so I don't know what you mean by variax mags?

 

As far as the amp for monitoring purposes, I only need to come out of the HD500x into the effects loop return, no other cables?

 

 Variax mags = the guitar's magnetic pickups, as opposed to the modeled guitars.

 

Running into the FX return should suffice for using any amp as a stage monitor.


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#5 justcrash

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:09 AM

Ok thank you! I will try this set up tonight! I really appreciate the help!


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#6 justcrash

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:10 AM

Speaking of stereo, right now I just have the patches with two amps hard panned and stereo delay. Any other good effects to pan in order to take advantage of the stereo?


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#7 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:23 AM

Speaking of stereo, right now I just have the patches with two amps hard panned and stereo delay. Any other good effects to pan in order to take advantage of the stereo?

 

Ping-pong delay


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#8 justcrash

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:26 AM

Ping-pong delay

Thank you!I was surprised I didn't see a stereo chorus effect. May have missed it though. I really like the 500!


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#9 jandrio

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:32 AM

u can find the "Stereo/Mono FX List for POD HDhere


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#10 justcrash

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:15 AM

Thank you, very helpful!


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#11 chuberto

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

Just a word of warning, speaking as a long term live sound engineer, stereo is a troublesome word for small to medium gigs.

 

It sounds great if the listener is in the ideal position between both speakers but for everyone that isn't (including the sound engineer) the sound can be less than desirable.


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#12 cruisinon2

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

Just a word of warning, speaking as a long term live sound engineer, stereo is a troublesome word for small to medium gigs.

It sounds great if the listener is in the ideal position between both speakers but for everyone that isn't (including the sound engineer) the sound can be less than desirable.


And 98% of the people in the room won't be in the right spot...on the bright side, most of the clientele down at Billy Bob's Tavern on the Dirt will be pig drunk and processing everything with a Jack Daniel's delay anyway...so it might even out in the end, lol.

But I agree...sometimes less is more. At home stereo is fun to screw around with, but rapidly looses its luster anywhere else.
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#13 chuberto

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 03:55 PM

And 98% of the people in the room won't be in the right spot...on the bright side, most of the clientele down at Billy Bob's Tavern on the Dirt will be pig drunk and processing everything with a Jack Daniel's delay anyway...so it might even out in the end, lol.

But I agree...sometimes less is more. At home stereo is fun to screw around with, but rapidly looses its luster anywhere else.

 

Exactly this.


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#14 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:11 AM

yes, "stereo" remains always a "..dispute" point with the sound guy. But bear in mind that "stereo" here means all those small tricks 'n tips which make the sound of ONE mono guitar real H-U-G-E (eg 20 ms delay on one channel, twin amp/cab patch, stereo mod effects, variax mags ‘n model separation, etc). After all, the small portion of the audience who are not in the "...ideal" position", will still hear ONE channel with the mono guitar. So I believe is much better to “feed” the 80% of ur listeners with stereo huge sound and leave the rest with mono sound. Of course, it all depends on the place, the genre, the band and above all, the guitar player!
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#15 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:06 AM

I'd like to chime in some questions here to everyone (and especially jandrio).  I am just starting in a semi established band playing classic rock like Led Zep, Black Crows, Bad Company  and so on.  I am going to use this setup:

  • JTV59
  • POD HD 500
  • 1 or possibly 2 Power Engine 60s (I have 2)

I was think I'd connect JTV59 into the POD via the VDI, and the POD via XLR cables to the PA system for the front of house feed.  Then, I was thinking I'd take the 1/4" out(s) of the POD to feed the Power Engines as at least one stage monitor for myself and maybe the second so others could monitor if they wanted.

So what are the holes in that idea guys?  I see that jandrio is using the effects send as a monitor and honestly that never would have occurred to me to even try.  Why is that better than my idea, if I may ask.  I'm not knocking it, just trying to be prepapred for a new band I want to succeed in.  I may also be singing the odd song or two so having the mic input available is a plus (but I need to get either a dynamic mic or a phantom power provider for the one I have.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Gotchas?


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#16 cruisinon2

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:15 AM

I'd like to chime in some questions here to everyone (and especially jandrio).  I am just starting in a semi established band playing classic rock like Led Zep, Black Crows, Bad Company  and so on.  I am going to use this setup:

  • JTV59
  • POD HD 500
  • 1 or possibly 2 Power Engine 60s (I have 2)

I was think I'd connect JTV59 into the POD via the VDI, and the POD via XLR cables to the PA system for the front of house feed.  Then, I was thinking I'd take the 1/4" out(s) of the POD to feed the Power Engines as at least one stage monitor for myself and maybe the second so others could monitor if they wanted.

So what are the holes in that idea guys?  I see that jandrio is using the effects send as a monitor and honestly that never would have occurred to me to even try.  Why is that better than my idea, if I may ask.  I'm not knocking it, just trying to be prepapred for a new band I want to succeed in.  I may also be singing the odd song or two so having the mic input available is a plus (but I need to get either a dynamic mic or a phantom power provider for the one I have.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Gotchas?

 

I don't see an issue with your proposed set-up. As long as you can hear yourself and like the tone you're getting, and the audience can hear you, who cares which cables are running where? And for what it's worth, it would never have occured to me to use the fx send as a monitor either, but it's probably not any more or less valid than your set-up. If it works, why not?

 

I've always had one basic rule for playing live...if it sounds good and nothing catches fire, then all is well...get paid, hit the diner, go home and try not to wake up the dogs, lol.


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#17 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:37 AM

I don't see an issue with your proposed set-up. As long as you can hear yourself and like the tone you're getting, and the audience can hear you, who cares which cables are running where? And for what it's worth, it would never have occured to me to use the fx send as a monitor either, but it's probably not any more or less valid than your set-up. If it works, why not?

 

I've always had one basic rule for playing live...if it sounds good and nothing catches fire, then all is well...get paid, hit the diner, go home and try not to wake up the dogs, lol.

See, in my world view what I hear when playing live doesn't really matter, it's what the audience hears.  I have always played a miced up amp before and the sound to the crowd was the sound man's problem so to speak.  I can only do so much after the pedals (or in this case, patches) are set and volume leveled.  I just need to hear enough to stay on target.  It's a simplistic world view I suppose, but I cannot get too involved obsessing about tone for my own personal ears to be happy.

Now that said, I also want to be as well prepared before that time as I can be.  Last night was my first practice with these guys and it was fun.  The other guitar player was using a Digitech RP80 I think and while part of me would have said "Really?", he made up for any shortcomings that relatively simple piece of gear may have by being an excellent player, singer and seasoned band member.  He has been playing in bands apparently since 1982.  So last night I was reminded that ultimately, we can make about any piece of gear sound good to the vast majority of people if we play well and just get close on tone.

And yeah, waking up the dog at 1:30am is discouraged. :)


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#18 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:49 AM

...I run the 1/4 out of the HD500 to my amp’s effects loop return, thus using the amp only as stage monitor....

 

just 2 clarify, I ain't using the HD500 fx send, I run the HD500 1/4 out (L/mono) to my AMP's EFFECT RETURN jack.

 

@smrybacki: what u propose is EXACTLY what I implement, so I do not c any holes.  I can assure u it is working.

rgds/john

 

ps

bear in mind that if u use BOTH 1/4 outs, then each  Power Engine monitor (amp) will receive one part of ur stereo signal


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#19 cruisinon2

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:52 AM

See, in my world view what I hear when playing live doesn't really matter, it's what the audience hears.  I have always played a miced up amp before and the sound to the crowd was the sound man's problem so to speak.  I can only do so much after the pedals (or in this case, patches) are set and volume leveled.  I just need to hear enough to stay on target.  It's a simplistic world view I suppose, but I cannot get too involved obsessing about tone for my own personal ears to be happy.

Now that said, I also want to be as well prepared before that time as I can be.  Last night was my first practice with these guys and it was fun.  The other guitar player was using a Digitech RP80 I think and while part of me would have said "Really?", he made up for any shortcomings that relatively simple piece of gear may have by being an excellent player, singer and seasoned band member.  He has been playing in bands apparently since 1982.  So last night I was reminded that ultimately, we can make about any piece of gear sound good to the vast majority of people if we play well and just get close on tone.

And yeah, waking up the dog at 1:30am is discouraged. :)

 

1:30? What time do the bars close in your neck of the woods? I'm used to finishing the 3rd set around 2 or 2:30...usually strolling in around 4.


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#20 justcrash

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:59 AM

just 2 clarify, I ain't using the HD500 fx send, I run the HD500 1/4 out (L/mono) to my AMP's EFFECT RETURN jack.

 

@smrybacki: what u propose is EXACTLY what I implement, so I do not c any holes.  I can assure u it is working.

rgds/john

 

ps

bear in mind that if u use BOTH 1/4 outs, then each  Power Engine monitor (amp) will receive one part of ur stereo signal

 

I can testify to this, I set it up at band practice the other day (I was alone, it was where we practice.. for some reason I feel like I have to be 100% honest even though it isn't relevant and my, this was a long aside) and the effects return worked like a charm to monitor via an amp. Did not have the stereo sound but that was fine.

 

The only issue is, I got a weird, crackling sound through the speaker I was using for the main 500x sound (a large stage monitor that also doubles as a main for practice). Dunno what is causing that.


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#21 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

1:30? What time do the bars close in your neck of the woods? I'm used to finishing the 3rd set around 2 or 2:30...usually strolling in around 4.

I live in Pennsyltucky where we're grateful to have bars at all and dry counties still exist.


Quite a shock after years in the Air Force in places like California where you buy your Jim Beam along with bananas and milk at Vons.


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#22 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:04 AM

..The only issue is, I got a weird, crackling sound through the speaker I was using for the main 500x sound (a large stage monitor that also doubles as a main for practice). Dunno what is causing that.

 

This has nothing 2 do with ur gear, it's the sound guy's problem (probably bad cables, di boxes, power quality, etc).

I suppose by "effects return" u mean the amp's effects return.

Otherwise, if u use the HD500's effects return, u consume unnecessarily one FX slot.


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#23 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:07 AM

I can testify to this, I set it up at band practice the other day (I was alone, it was where we practice.. for some reason I feel like I have to be 100% honest even though it isn't relevant and my, this was a long aside) and the effects return worked like a charm to monitor via an amp. Did not have the stereo sound but that was fine.

 

The only issue is, I got a weird, crackling sound through the speaker I was using for the main 500x sound (a large stage monitor that also doubles as a main for practice). Dunno what is causing that.

That's good to know man, thanks.  I agree with jandrio that the crackling isn't likely to be the POD though.  There's gremlins in the wires man...


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#24 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:09 AM

This has nothing 2 do with ur gear, it's the sound guy's problem (probably bad cables, di boxes, power quality, etc).

I suppose by "effects return" u mean the amp's effects return.

Otherwise, if u use the HD500's effects return, u consume unnecessarily one FX slot.

Since the PE60s are just power amps, I can just plug in from the 1/4" outs and the only thing to know is stereo effects get split along with the XLR outs and I'll miss half of it, if I understand things correctly.


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#25 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:17 AM

correct!

 

however, u cld use onle the L/MONO 1/4 out and thru ABY splitter feed the PE60s.

 

http://www.pedalsplu...d-bgshotaby.htm


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#26 cruisinon2

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:20 AM

I live in Pennsyltucky where we're grateful to have bars at all and dry counties still exist.


Quite a shock after years in the Air Force in places like California where you buy your Jim Beam along with bananas and milk at Vons.

 

lol...well I guess we can't have all those Amish folks buggy-ing home drunk, now can we?


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#27 justcrash

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:25 AM

This has nothing 2 do with ur gear, it's the sound guy's problem (probably bad cables, di boxes, power quality, etc).

I suppose by "effects return" u mean the amp's effects return.

Otherwise, if u use the HD500's effects return, u consume unnecessarily one FX slot.

Yes the amps FX return.

:)

 

the crackling to ME sounds like the speaker in the monitor (not the fake amp monitor, but the monitors for vocal use) can't handle the 500x. It makes me nervous. Soooooo this weekend I am taking one of the actual Peavey SP2 mains we have and running it through that to see what it sounds like.


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#28 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:30 AM

here's a sample sketch.

Attached Files


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#29 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:40 AM

..the crackling to ME sounds like the speaker in the monitor (not the fake amp monitor, but the monitors for vocal use) can't handle the 500x...

 

since u monitor ur guitar thru (fake)  amp monitor , I do not c any reason for monitoring the HD500 thru the monitors 4 vocal use.


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#30 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:54 AM

here's a sample sketch.

Why the ABY splitter sir?  Just to "mono-ize" your signal out to stage monitors?


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#31 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:06 AM

lol...well I guess we can't have all those Amsih folks buggy-ing home drunk, now can we?

You have no idea.  You can't even buy a car here on Sunday.


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#32 justcrash

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:16 AM

since u monitor ur guitar thru (fake)  amp monitor , I do not c any reason for monitoring the HD500 thru the monitors 4 vocal use.

This was to get an FRFR set up to set my tones/levels for stage usage and to test the amp as a monitor thing at the same time.


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#33 smrybacki

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:17 AM

lol...well I guess we can't have all those Amish folks buggy-ing home drunk, now can we?

Way OT, I give you The Amish Outlaws:

https://www.youtube....d&v=KT0hp3ZtAT8
 


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#34 jandrio

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:20 PM

Why the ABY splitter sir?  Just to "mono-ize" your signal out to stage monitors?

 

yeap.  c my post#25 abv.

it also deals with ground loop problems (if any).

john


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