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Jtv-69 Position 2 Neck/middle Somewhat Tinny


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Update July 5, 2012 - Can you scroll down to post number #11 below.  Would like to ask for your help please....

 

Hi folks, is it me or do you find position 2 neck/middle sound somewhat tinny or even out of phase when using it withOUT the electronics? It's hooked up to a DT-25

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Well, it is out of phase... The magnetic pickups on the JTV-69 are wired essentially like a Strat. Position 1 is the neck, 2 is neck/middle out of phase with each other, 3 is middle, 4 is middle/bridge (phase doesn't really matter with the humbucker in the bridge), and 5 is the bridge. But on a Strat, positions 2 and 4 are often referred to as the "quack" positions. They're known for that tight, thin sound. I actually don't find a whole a lot of difference between the modeled Strat in position 2 and the magnetics. Playing clean, this tends to be one of my favorite sounds, actually.

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Thanks phil_m.  I have an aerodyne strat and i just found the Jtv-69's more pronounced (as in tinny and weaker?).  But from what i read somewhere else, for strats, positions 2 and 4 are just called "out-of-phase positions" but they are still physically wired in-phase.  

 

For position 4, (on a jtv-69) does one of the humbucker coils turn off?  If so, wouldn't that make it have the same characterstics as position 2 (as in somewhat weaker)?   I found position 4 to sound "normal" (imho).

 

Just curious...

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You know, I hadn't really thought about the whole out of phase thing before, but you're correct. The pickups aren't out of phase. They're wired in parallel, but the windings on the middle pickup are reversed, so that is why there is hum cancellation. True out of phase pickups sound very, very thin. I don't believe the JTV-69 magnetics are wired any differently than a typical Strat. I play Strats most of the time, and to me position 2 on the JTV magnetics sounds like I'd expect.

 

What kind of pickups does your Aerodyne Strat have in it?

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You know, I hadn't really thought about the whole out of phase thing before, but you're correct. The pickups aren't out of phase. They're wired in parallel, but the windings on the middle pickup are reversed, so that is why there is hum cancellation. True out of phase pickups sound very, very thin. I don't believe the JTV-69 magnetics are wired any differently than a typical Strat. I play Strats most of the time, and to me position 2 on the JTV magnetics sounds like I'd expect.

 

What kind of pickups does your Aerodyne Strat have in it?

Yeah, if it was out of phase it would be extremely thin sounding. Phase outs are very thin sounding unless the two pickups sound drastically different.

 

Basically if you doubled a signal exactly and phased it out/inverted it, you literally would hear nothing, because it cancels each other out. Basically like "1 + -1 = 0".

 

Since the pickups are a positioned a bit off, the signals don't sound exactly the same, so you basically get a "difference" signal, which is the remainder signal of what wasn't cancelled out since there was some difference between bridge and middle pickup's signal. Usually this results in a thin tone, which is why it sounds thinner than even the bridge pickup alone.

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Can someone assiist me by doing a quick check (not using the electronics) and compare Neck/Middile pos 2 and Neck/Bridge pos 4 ?   I definitely notice it being very thin and weak as compared to other positions.   Appreciate your feedback...

.

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I use that position all the time with the mags on my JTV69, and to me it sounds like what I'd expect. Do you have the ability to record a quick sample of what you're hearing?

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Thanks for the samples. I hear what you're talking about. The difference in volume is pretty pronounced - more than I notice with mine. I wonder if it could be possible that your neck pickup got wired out of phase? It sure sounds like that could be the case.

 

I'd say it's worth opening up a support ticket:

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Folks,

 

My JTV-69 just came back from repair and the neck middle position still has that tinny sound. I'm highly upset with the quality of work and now not only does it have a new tiny nick at the headstock but it has tiny new scratches on the body. Albeit the sound is still the same (sounds like it is out of phase with the switch position at Neck and Middle).

 

I would appreciate some help if you folks can confirm that this is a problem/non-problem by listening to the attached MP3 file and comparing it to your jtv-69 WITHOUT the electronics (no LED lights on)

 

The tinny sound is apparent at the second set of strums (1st is Neck, 2nd is Neck Middle), ...

 

Thanks!

 

variax issue.mp3

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I would appreciate some help if you folks can confirm that this is a problem/non-problem by listening to the attached MP3 file and comparing it to your jtv-69 WITHOUT the electronics (no LED lights on)

 

 

The tinny sound is apparent at the second set of strums (1st is Neck, 2nd is Neck Middle), ...

 

I'd like to help, but I get an error when attempting to follow that MP3 link.

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What did the service center say they did with your guitar? Did they re-wire the pickups?

Nothing whatsoever (no ticket updates, no e-mails),  I just received the guitar with two new very tiny blemishes.  I'm really unhappy with them right now.  I'm calling them up first thing monday.  They listened to the same sound file I sent you / posted here and that's when they told me to ship it for repair.  But it came back exactly the same way... 

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  • 10 years later...

So, I've read all the posts here, researched other forums, and (with an electronics background) was still struggling to understand why the neck/middle pickup combination was so weak compared to the other 4 switch postions. It seemed that the only reason the output would be so weak for the combined neck/middle pickups would be if they were out of phase. I found a wiring diagram for the JTV-69 pickups, checked my guitar, and everything was per the wiring diagram (note that the board the pickups are soldered into, has clear markings for each lead, and of course the pickup leads are color coded black and white). So today I reversed the leads of the neck pickup, reassembled the guitar, and guess what? Normal and expected response from all pickups and combinations. Now the neck/middle pickup combination has normal volume, and the "quacky" midrange tone you expect. My only explanation is that the neck pickups were manufactured with the color-coding on the leads reversed. I know this same issue has plagued many other JTV-69 owners, so don't know how many guitars were manufactured with this issue, but for those of you that are suffering the same problem, now you have a solution.

Line6 JTV-69 Pickup Wiring.pdf

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To get hum canceling with neck and middle or middle and bridge on a Strat, you need two things: 1) the middle pickup need to be reverse wired out or of phase and 2) the magnets need to be flipped N/S to S/N up on the middle pickup. That puts the string motion back in phase, while leaving the voltages induced in the pickups from external fields out of phase and cancelled. 

 

You can use a compass to check the phasing of the magnets. 

 

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