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Issue With My 4 Cable Method Setup- Hd 500


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#1 happycats0199

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

Hi all - I recently started using the 4 cable method with my HD 500. Sounds great for anything in front of the effects loop icon on the pod signal chain. but when i move anything to after the effects loop, then it becomes inaudible through the amp. If i move it up ahead of the loop, its fine, but then that means it's running through the pre-amp, which defeats the whole purpose. Ive double,triple checked that i have the cables hooked up right. And no amount of playing wiht the send/receive volume levels on the pod or the amp effects loop output makes any difference. anyone have any ideas on why this could be happening?


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#2 Rowbi

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

Can you confirm where each cable is connected (both ends), as I've used 4CM before and it worked really well with wah and OD before the loop and verb/delay after the pods loop.

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#3 happycats0199

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:32 AM

Sure, cable from guitar to pod.

 

Pod effects send out to amp in

Amp effects send to pod effects loop return

Pod line out to amp effects return

 

That is right?


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#4 phil_m

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 09:56 AM

What kind of amp is it? It sounds like it may have an effects loop that needs to be turned on. If you aren't hearing the effects in the post position, to me it sounds like the amp's effects loop isn't on.


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#5 happycats0199

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

Its a Vox AC30 cc2x, about 3 years old
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#6 phil_m

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

Make sure the bypass switch for the amp's effects loop is switched to "on".


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#7 jimsreynolds

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:24 AM

What Phil said.  You could test for this by leaving out the last cable in the 4CM.  If the amp loop is turned off then you will still be able to hear sound.


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#8 happycats0199

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:38 AM

well i set the bypass to 'on' and then no signal at all came out of the amp. when i put the bypass to 'off', i can hear the signal of all the effects that are ordered in front of the effects loop icon on the pod. seems when i put the bypass to 'on' on the amp it cuts everything out.


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#9 phil_m

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:42 AM

With the bypass switch set to on, the amp's effect loop it on (it's somewhat confusing labeling if you ask me). So you'll want to leave that on.

 

But we are getting somewhere. So where do you have the effect loop block in your signal chain in your tone?


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#10 happycats0199

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:47 AM

so the order goes, compressor, distortion, effects loop, (amp modeling set to 'off'), delay, rotary drum, (then i think there is a 'pan').

 

when in move the delay and/or rotary in front of the loop icon, then i hear them, but behind it i don't.


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#11 phil_m

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

So are you saying you have an actual amp model selected in the tone, but just have it turned off? If that's the case, there's a parameter in the amp block called "bypass volume". You may have this set to zero.

 

Another potential issue. You mention the pan effect. If you are using this, and you have the tone hard panned to the wrong side, you may not be getting a signal coming from POD's effect send. Remember the POD's effects loop is stereo, so if you are only using it as a mono loop (which is what you'd be doing), you need to make sure you have something coming out of the left side.


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#12 happycats0199

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:19 AM

ok - thanks for that. will check on those when i get back after work.


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#13 Rowbi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

Some good advice there from Phil!

Nothing further to add with the preset youre using except keep plugging away at it and you'll get to the bottom of this issue eventually.

Another thing to try would be to use a blank preset and start with adding the fx loop and see how that works with no other fx or amp model. Just in case something else in your chain is causing the issues.

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#14 happycats0199

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:02 AM

Ok, so still having the issue. Here is a new wrinkle I discovered as I was experimenting. If I unplug the able on the fx return on the pod (coming from amp FX send), or the line out from the pod (going to amp fx return), I get sound coming out of the amp. In other words. The amp is getting everything from my pod FX send (to amp in). I can monkey with the other two cables and it doesn't do any thing. I still can only hear the effects on mybpod if they are in front of the FX loop icon on the pod, but I thought this might be able to be a clue to you guys as to what is going on? Ideas?
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#15 jimsreynolds

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:01 AM

In part this depends on the behaviour of the amplifier. Sometimes the effects loop will be bypassed even when it is turned on but there is no cable plugged into either the sender or the return. This is not the case with all amps though.

 

I think we need to do some basic checks here.  

 

Test A:

 

Remove all of the cables apart from the following:

 

1) Guitar --> Pod Input

2) Pod Output --> Amp FX Return

 

-  Make sure the Amp FX Loop is turned on.

-  Create a new empty preset without an FX Loop Block but with an amp model. Put a flanger before the amp model and a delay after the amp model.

-  Play

 

At this point you should hear your echoey flanged guitar.

 

If you do not, first check that the amp FX loop is turned on. If that does not help try plug-in a dummy cable into the Amp FX loop send (leave the other end unplugged).

 

If this does not work, check mixer levels, master outputs and similar on the HD500. There is no point in trying to get 4CM working if this does not work.

 

With everything working we should now have proved that your amp FX loop is working correctly as is the HD500 output. So now try ...

 

Test B

 

Plug in the remaining 4CM cables

 

1) POD FX Send --> Amp Input

2) Amp FX Send --> POD FX Return

 

Using the preset:you created in the previous step: 

 

- Insert an FX Loop block in between the flanger and the amplifier and turn it on.

- turn off the amp model 

 

If everything is working correctly you should now hear both the flanger and the delay. If you do not then please report back the results. 


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#16 happycats0199

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

Thanks Jim, it failed test a. So does that mean that the amp FX loop is not working?
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#17 jimsreynolds

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:21 AM

Possibly.  I would now check:

 

1)  is the amp loop switched on? Some just 'work' when you cable things into them.  Some have a switch on the amp.  Some need a footswitch.  

 

A simple test for whether you loop is switched on is to hang two cables, one  out of the loop send and the other out of the loop return.  Leave the other ends of the cable unplugged.  

 

-  If the loop is working, you should hear nothing when the loop is switched on and signal when the loop is turned off.  

-  If you hear nothing with the loop turned on: unplug the loop send cable and plug the other end of the loop return into the loop send (i.e. a patch direct from loop send to loop return).  You should now hear signal.

 

If these tests fail then your loop is probably the cause.

 

2)  Are all your cables ok?  Test them all if you have not already.

 

3)  Is the Pod outputting anything at all?  Plug it into the front of the amp and test.   Do you hear anything?  Then your POD is working.

 

4)  Does the loop need a footswitch to toggle it on (i.e the one supplied with the amp)?  I know this is weird but I have seen this on some amps.


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