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Dream Rig With Analog Pedals + Multiple Jtv Input Paths


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#1 ColonelForbin

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:02 AM

I am definitely interested by the idea of incorporating external analog, true-bypass pedals into my 'dream' rig (JTV59, HD500, DT25) and I'm curious to hear both good and bad experiences folks have had. Particularly, positioning the external pedals in the signal chain, primarily in the HD500 fx loop and the DT(25) fx loop.

 

I am also wondering about doing less conventional things, like running dual outputs off the JTV the 1/4" off the JTV into a sequence of FX pedals, and into the HD500 guitar in, while also using the VDI variax in tandem. Or running the dual input programming on the HD500 to split the variax models and mags into input 1 and 2, then running the fx loop out to the analog pedal, on one or the other of those, and/or both. Just kind of grasping at straws about which ideas are good, and which are going to be a total mess of noise or mismatched levels.

 

In a nutshell, if you had a few choice analog pedals - mine happen to all be true bypass Keeley - but more in general, what is the thought process for where certain types of pedals should go - before the amp model, after - which types of stomps belong in the HD500 fx loop and which should/could go in the DT(25) FX loop.

 

I've got some Keeley pedals on order, one of which being an external true bypass fx loop pedal.

 

I have no issue with the onboard FX of the HD500, and the amp models are sounding fantastic.

I have been reworking alot of my patches, still exploring how to get "my sound", haven't gotten there yet, but I can say, at our last rehearsal I *finally* got decent multi-track using our M20d, so I am looking forward to jamming on Saturday, and working with some new pedals and new ways to approach interacting with this gear.

 

I am also wondering about splitting the two inputs between "variax models" and "variax mags", by way of splitting the signal path up in various positions before and after the amp model.

 

I also wonder, where does the DT(25) FX loop sit in the signal chain of the HD500 going with L6Link into a DT25? I suppose the easiest way to know, is stick a pedal in there, run a delay FX on the HD500, and do staccato bursts and see if the delay is being modulated, or the modulation pedal effect is being delay repeated. I would guess that the DT25 FX loop occurs "post" everything in the HD500, but I don't know for sure.

 

For instance, if I place a chorus pedal in the DT25 FX loop, is that effect happening post-HD500, or does it occur at the amp model position, placing all "post" effects blocks in the HD500 patch.

 

Lots of questions, I know - just doing some brainstorming this week, will try to set my patches up before rehearsal, but thus far, I've done the bulk of my actual patch editing and creation at rehearsal, on the fly.

 

Oh yeah, the pedals I've got en route are all Keeley. They are on order, but the Neutrino is coming from Keeley, the other pedals from Sweetwater - guessing the Keeley is still a ways out, they are still building them! Sweetwater should be here tomorrow or friday though, so will definitely have the bulk of the new stuff for rehearsal on Saturday. Of all of these, of course, the one I am most pysched about is the Neutrino! *Love* that "Estimated Prophet" Jerry Garcia vibe. And I also want to hear a big fat bass tone through that, get some Bootsy on!

 

Cheers people, Happy Wednesday :)

 

- Bootlegger overdrive

- 4-knob compressor

- Seafoam chorus

- True-bypass FX loop pedal

- Neutrino envelope filter

 

Thanks!


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#2 radatats

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:05 AM

I seem to remember reading that if you are using L6 link, the DT25 FX loop is bypassed and not available...  I think the POD goes straight to the power section...


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#3 ColonelForbin

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:27 PM

I seem to remember reading that if you are using L6 link, the DT25 FX loop is bypassed and not available...  I think the POD goes straight to the power section...

 

That actually makes a lot of sense; since the link function basically positions the pre and post effects accordingly.

Not a big deal, I will have to dig a little deeper and see what I can come up with!

 

Will have time this weekend to give it a spin, will report back with what I find


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#4 ColonelForbin

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:39 PM

Digging through the various manuals, nothing conclusive yet. Here's what I've found thus far:

 

POD HD500 Connections & Options: FX LOOP
The signal of any external devices connected within the FX Loop is also incorporated into the audio output fed to L6 LINK, so feel free to put it use with your favorite pedals & rack gear.

 

DT Amplifier Effect Loop
The SEND and RETURN jacks here are for the analog, series EFFECT LOOP of the amplifier. You’ll hear your POD HD Preset Tones fed through any effects you connect in this Effect Loop chain before the signal is fed through the DT amp’s power amp stage

 

This statement was a bit confusing; I would *guess* it applies to the HD500, but not the HD300?

 

FX Loop (POD HD400 Only)
You can still utilize the POD HD400 FX Loop and it options for any Preset when using the L6 LINK connection.


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#5 malnack

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:36 AM

I'm using an Electro-Harmonix Soul Food overdrive in the effects loop in the HD500. I have it positioned 2nd in the chain behind the noise gate but before the preamp. Prior to that, I was never able to get the overdrives in the HD500 to match the tone in my head. That's not to say that the HD500 can't create a good overdrive, it's just that when I would get a decent overdrive the jump in level when it was engaged.

 

Now that the Soul Food is in my chain, I can better manage the levels and it is really a nice overdrive. I'm mostly using it with the AC15 preamp model and it is nice.

 

I haven't done much related to the rest of your questions. 


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#6 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:07 AM

I'm using an Electro-Harmonix Soul Food overdrive in the effects loop in the HD500. I have it positioned 2nd in the chain behind the noise gate but before the preamp. Prior to that, I was never able to get the overdrives in the HD500 to match the tone in my head. That's not to say that the HD500 can't create a good overdrive, it's just that when I would get a decent overdrive the jump in level when it was engaged.

 

Now that the Soul Food is in my chain, I can better manage the levels and it is really a nice overdrive. I'm mostly using it with the AC15 preamp model and it is nice.

 

I haven't done much related to the rest of your questions. 

 

 

Hey, that helps! That's a big part of my question: where should this stuff go in a signal chain. I am starting to look at doing a bit more frankensteining on my 'dream rig', in terms of adding that outboard gear. The Keeley pedals I ordered from Sweetwater literally just arrived, I haven't even opened the box yet. I will know a whole lot more on Saturday after I have a chance to get all my gear in one place and jam with the guys. I am definitely looking forward to it~

 

It's also encouraging to know that people are having success inserting analog drive pedals in front of the 'dream rig' amp models. I guess it helps that those pedals become part of the digital preamp tones before they hit the DT analog power amp. I am still curious to see what happens if I put any pedals into the DT25 FX loop while I am using the L6Link... Will know soon enough! :)


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#7 malnack

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:26 AM

I wasn't exactly sure where to place it and I just moved it around until it sounded the best. I could definitely tell the difference of having it in front of the preamp instead of after it. Because it was an overdrive pedal maybe that is the reason.

 

Also, when I put it in the chain in HD Edit, I set the FX Loop to be 100% in the mix. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do, but it made sense to me. Might as well let the pedal have full control of the signal.

 

I used this setup at a gig and my biggest problem was were to place the pedal. I ended up using two 6 inch cables and placed it on top of a mic stand base to get it elevated. It was a little dicey getting to pedal button but it worked.

 

One other benefit for me is that I only assign HD500 effects to the 1 - 4 switches. Now I can activate my other effects without having to eat one up with the overdrive.


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#8 ColonelForbin

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:37 AM

One other benefit for me is that I only assign HD500 effects to the 1 - 4 switches. Now I can activate my other effects without having to eat one up with the overdrive.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking about freeing up the fs1-4; I use a couple of the drive FX on the HD500, though somewhat rare, I more commonly use volume and compressor boost blocks to drive a slightly gained up amp model from clean to crunch.

 

I actually caused horrible squealing monster feedback noise the last time we jammed, by over tweaking a drive FX setting, it was a total mess. I typically keep it pretty sparse as it is, I suppose I could do the version of the FS control that allows all 8 FS to be assigned and used to control FX and other things, while patch change then occurs only by the patch bank up/down option - not ideal.

 

I am typically assigning fs1=comp or boost, fs=drive, fs3=reverb toggle*, fs4=delay. The reverb toggle* is where I use two reverb FX blocks, usually '63 spring reverb, and then a more "effected" reverb, like a big hall, or the crazy sounding stuff, like set that particle verb to meltdown. The fs3 then just toggles the spring verb off and the particle verb on. I guess I could just leave the spring verb on all the time, and just make fs3 toggle the more extreme verb on/off.

 

But thinking now with some outboard (Keeley) pedals, I can maybe free up fs1 and fs2 to use some other effects that I would normally skip - phasers, and stuff like that.


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