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Tips For A Great High Gain Sound

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#1 dvuksanovich

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Hi all,

 

I've been using my HD500 live for about two years now and I've been tweaking (and tweaking... and tweaking) my high gain patch since day one. I've read tons of online discussions (many of them right here in this forum) and guides about how to get good high gain tone out of your POD HD... like this one for example:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

This guide is extremely informative, but since I'm not a sound engineer it's, frankly, a bit over my head. I've got a much simpler guide to getting an organic high gain sound (mine is dialed in to sound kind of hair-metal-ish) that I recently put up on my blog:

 

http://www.whyisucka...igh-gain-patch/

 

Theres also a link to download the latest incarnation of the patch that I use live, straight into the PA. Multiple sound guys have told me that I've got the best direct sound they've ever heard, so I think I'm doing something right at this point.

 

I hope this helps some folks out there in POD-land who've been having trouble with dialing in hard rock and metal tones.

 

Dan Vuksanovich


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#2 snhirsch

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:13 AM

That's very helpful - thanks.  I had been hoping to see some input from other folks using the QSC powered speaker for a rig.  You are quite correct about the Marshall emulation.  It just doesn't sound very convincing to me, and by the time you suck all the "fizz" out with a post-amp parametric EQ there isn't much left to work with.

 

I do have to say that a Rickenbacker 12-string sound through Fender Twin simulation is awe-inspiring from the QSC!

 

http://www.whyisucka...igh-gain-patch/


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#3 bjnette

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

That QSC is a 1000watt powered speaker. Blimey!

I got a paulty 250 watt installion series  power amp and yet to try it out with a 12' Tannoy PA speaker.

I have tried it out on my 100 Solid State Amp and the speaker sounds great.

 

I think that the weight of the Amp and the speaker kind of defeats the advantage. 

I guess I gotta hook it up and listen to know for sure.


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#4 dvuksanovich

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:03 AM

I've got the QSC K8, which is surprisingly loud (even during a show) despite the fact that it only has an 8" woofer. True, it doesn't move as much air as a 10" or 12" speaker so the area on stage where I can hear myself really well is smaller than in would be with the bigger models.

 

The one thing I don't like about the K8 is that the housing is so small that there's no angled back for turning it into a floor monitor without putting it in a stand or using this method:

 

 

I'll be trying this (ingenious) solution for the first time tonight.


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#5 snhirsch

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

For some reason, the forum editor will not allow me to insert text below the quote... Go figure.  Anyway, I didn't realize the K8 had such a different form-factor.  I generally set the K10 into a folding amp stand on its angled side.  Works perfectly and lifts it closer to me so my bass player (standing next to me) doesn't complain about the wash :-).

 

The one thing I don't like about the K8 is that the housing is so small that there's no angled back for turning it into a floor monitor without putting it in a stand or using this method:


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#6 snhirsch

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

That QSC is a 1000watt powered speaker. Blimey!

 

With great power comes great responsibility!  I don't generally play all that loud, though.  The headroom really comes in handy for my Variax's acoustic guitar and 12-string sounds.  The Rickenbacker model is just brutal in terms of the bandwidth requirements and tends to mush out just about any conventional amplifier.  We've been working up an older Midnight Oil tune with a prominent 12-string part and the QSC is magical sounding.


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#7 meambobbo

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:45 PM

i definitely ended up making that guide huge and very in-depth, and definitely can be very off-putting.  glad to see a nice guide like yours and hope it helps people out.

 

one bit of advice - instead of using the patch-cable in the loop approach, if you have an extra effects block, just put a volume pedal effect behind the mixer block, and set the volume to a fixed 80% (disable exp pedal control over the level).  Then toggle it OFF to get your solo boost.  Now you free up the effects loop for a better use, or you don't have to worry about any degradation from more AD/DA conversion or a bad cable or interference or worry about forgetting that patch cable at home.


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Pod HD Tone Guide and Patches


#8 dvuksanovich

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:23 PM

Hi meambobbo,

 

Thanks for replying, and nice to (virutally) meet you. I tried the volume pedal approach for clean boost but don't like it as much as the effects loop solution. I don't use any external effects, so the fact that I can't use the loop for additional effects is not a big deal to me. In fact, one of the things I love about the HD500 is that it's an all-in-one solution and that I don't need any additional stuff. Definitely good advice for others who do want to use their effects loop for other things, though.

 

FYI - I recently took another look at your site and rebuilt my patches from the ground up based on your dual-cab advice. I still can't get the SM57 on-axis to sound good, so I substituted the 87 condenser, which sounds nice and smooth on the top end with my guitar's high output pickups. The new patch sounds FANTASTIC (in fact I think it sounds better than our other guitarist's tube head and 4x12 cab), so thanks again for all the work that you did putting your site together.

 

I tried to attach the patch to this reply but apparently I'm not allowed to upload .h5e files (which seems odd). If you're interested in hearing what someone else did with your advice I'd be happy to send it to you. Is there any other way I can contact you?

 

Dan


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#9 radatats

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

I tried to download your patch from your site but it is a .txt file... Try uploading your patch to Customtone and post the link here or you can put your patch in a .zip file and post that here.


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#10 dvuksanovich

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:09 PM

The file on my website is definitley an h5e file (I went and looked at it again just to make sure). If you go to the page and hover over the link to the patch you should see the complete path including the filename. I'm guessing that you've got anti-virus software that's trying to protect you from downloading a file in a non-standard format.

 

I zipped up my new dual cab patch and have attached it here. I also zipped up my older high gain patch (from my website) and attached that as well.

Attached Files


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#11 rerbty

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:45 PM

the DualCabMesa.zip is a blank patch.


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#12 dvuksanovich

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:07 PM

Sorry... I tried to save that one out of my HD500 Edit in offline mode and thought it would work. Try this one.

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#13 rerbty

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:23 PM

Hi dvuksanovich,

Is there any reason why you don't set High Gain's treadplate vol to 100%? If I want to make it louder, what should I do? use mixer or eq or boost? Thanks


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#14 dvuksanovich

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:33 PM

I needed to match levels with some clean patches I have, and I couldn't get the clean patches to not break up above a certain level, so I turned the volume on the treadplate down. I've got a pretty powerful PA speaker that I use as a monitor at my shows, so volume is not an issue for me since I can just turn up my PA speaker. As long as the volume level doesn't change the tone of the patch I'd say go ahead and set it wherever you want to.


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#15 meambobbo

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

Turning any of the amp Volume parameters up to 100% is a surefire way to clip the digital signal chain and get things to sound nasty.  My advice is to turn MASTER VOLUME (the physical knob on the unit) up to maximum, but keep the Amp Volume around 50% and Mixer around 0 db.  If that's not loud enough, the problem isn't about squeezing volume from the Pod, but your actual amp/monitor/PA/etc.  Then use the MASTER VOLUME to get the correct level by adjusting downwards.

 

dvuksanovich, i will try out the patch later on.  My HD isn't even connected at the moment.  I'm a fan of the 57 sound, even if it is a bit harsh.  But it has to mix with the other cab/mic to get a full sound.  Of course it's always nice to hear new combinations.


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Pod HD Tone Guide and Patches


#16 hurghanico

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:51 PM

..Turning any of the amp Volume parameters up to 100% is a surefire way to clip the digital signal chain and get things to sound nasty.  My advice is to turn MASTER VOLUME (the physical knob on the unit) up to maximum, but keep the Amp Volume around 50% and Mixer around 0 db.  If that's not loud enough, the problem isn't about squeezing volume from the Pod, but your actual amp/monitor/PA/etc.  Then use the MASTER VOLUME to get the correct level by adjusting downwards...

 

I don't agree with the above absolute statement.. and I would say that it depends on several things..

 

especially when recording through USB or S/PDIF and depending on which amp model I'm using, I often set the amp volume quite high and also at the mixer block I add some dBs to get a decent good signal into the DAW..

and doing so I don't get any clipping both into the POD chain and also into the DAW track channel..

 

when recording through USB or S/PDIF the POD master volume knob affects only the monitoring level , and the overall output volume when playing live


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