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Who Has Had B, E Strings Very Low Volume After Flash Upgrade

string volume flash upgrade jtv v2.0 v2.1

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#1 edstar1960

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:42 AM

Some people have reported that after a JTV flash upgrade usually to v2.0 or v2.1, that the B and E strings have very low volume levels in comparison to the E,A,B,G strings on some models.  Some have reported that a subsequent reflash or two fixed the problem, and others that they had to roll back to v1.9 to obtain models that had balanced string volumes, and finally some dived in to Workbench HD and tweaked the affected models to balance out the string sounds.

 

I recently hit this issue when I upgraded to v2.1 and a subsequent reflash did not fix it, and as I had a gig coming up I had to roll back to v1.9 as a quick way to get back to balanced string volumes as I did not have the time to go in WB HD and manually adjust for the differences.

 

I think It would be very useful to find out why this problem occurs and why it only affects some users and hopefully Line 6 can then fix the problem.  So if we can gather plenty of useful data in this thread then we can pass it on to Line 6 to investigate.

 

Please answer the following questions: if you have you ever had E and B strings at very low volume immediately following a flash upgrade?

 

    (a)  what flash version were you upgrading from and to?

    ( B)  what model JTV were you updating?

    ©  were you updating directly via JTV dongle or indirectly through an HD500 or HD500X or other device?

    (d)  how did you fix the problem? 

           (i) reflash firmware?  How many times?

           (ii) tweaked string volumes global and models in Wokbench HD?

           (iii) roll back to v1.9 or another fw level?

    (e) have you ever experienced this problem on a fw release earlier than v2.0 and if so, what level was it?

    (f) which models had the problem?

 

My answers:

 

(a)  v1.9 to v2.1

( B) JTV59

© updated via HD500

(d) attempted 2 reflashes, but then rolled back to v1.9

(e) no

(f) T-MOD positions 1,3,5 and SPANK 1 though 5

 

Thanks in advance for your help and answers.         


Edited by edstar1960, 07 May 2014 - 03:52 AM.

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#2 arislaf

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:36 AM

A)2.0 to 2.1

B)69S

C)Via dongle

D)tweaked string volumes global and models

E)No

F)T-MOD positions 1,3,5 and SPANK 1 though 5


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#3 edstar1960

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:53 AM

A)2.0 to 2.1

B)69S

C)Via dongle

D)tweaked string volumes global and models

E)No

 

Thanks for your answers arislaf, but I forgot to ask which models were affected by the problem.    I have updated my OP to add that question.


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#4 donnachatoo

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:28 AM

A- v1.7 to v2.0

B- JTV 59

C- the dongle

D- reflashed

(i) 3-4 times

E- no, didn't rollback after getting v2 to work

F- don't remember exactly, but I only tend to use the Lester, Spank and acoustic and noticed it with those

 

Hope this helps?


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#5 jayson2

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:54 PM

 
Please answer the following questions: if you have you ever had E and B strings at very low volume immediately following a flash upgrade?
 
    (a)  what flash version were you upgrading from and to?
    ( B)  what model JTV were you updating?
    ©  were you updating directly via JTV dongle or indirectly through an HD500 or HD500X or other device?
    (d)  how did you fix the problem? 
           (i) reflash firmware?  How many times?
           (ii) tweaked string volumes global and models in Wokbench HD?
           (iii) roll back to v1.9 or another fw level?
    (e) have you ever experienced this problem on a fw release earlier than v2.0 and if so, what level was it?
    (f) which models had the problem?
 


A. 1.9 to 2.0
B. JTV-69K
C. Tried updating via HD500 but failed on a midi timeout error. Hooked up the dongle and got fireware upgraded after two attempts.
D. Lived with it until the 2.1 upgrade and am using Workbench HD to adjust.
E. No
F. Most notably on the Spanks but also in the Tele.

Cheers,

jayson
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#6 edstar1960

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:55 AM

Thanks for the responses - keep them coming!     :)


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#7 edstar1960

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:56 AM

I have raised a support ticket and provided them an audio file demonstrating the problem.  Within the DAW you can clearly see the steady increase in volume from high E through to low E revealing the fact that it is not just the high  E and B that are low in volume - it's just they are the most noticeable - but each note gets louder and louder with the low E being clearly much louder.
 
I have attached it for everyone to listen to hear and see for themselves.

Attached File  JTV59-v21-String-Vol.zip   1.67MB   16 downloads

 

This demonstrates a T-MOD pos 1, I play twice from high E to low E on the 5th fret, using an AC-15 model, then I engage default NOISE GATE and TUBE DRIVE and play the notes twice again which just serves to emphasise the effect.


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#8 edstar1960

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:21 AM

Just an fyi ....

 

While I was recording the clip for Line 6, I thought I may as well record a clip of all models at v2.1.   I found that most of the electric guitar models have this imbalance to some degree or another - it's just that the T-MOD and SPANK models are quiet to start with so the extra softness of the high strings stand out even more.  The acoustic models all seemed fine and nicely balanced.  The reso models had a couple where the high E really screamed out loud and rest of strings were louder than v1.9 and some were no different to v1.9.  I also recorded all models at v1.9 and I also recorded a couple of my standard guitars with a combination of single coil and humbucking pickups and noted they were very similar to the v1.9 models, so I could compare the waveforms.  As you would expect a standard guitar does have different volumes for each string BUT they are close together in terms of db's and there is not the steady progression from very soft to very loud from high E to low E as there is with v2.1, and to the ear they sound a similar volume although actually they are different.  In terms of db's the higher strings are usually quieter and the A is normally the loudest with the low E a little lower.  Visually you can see that a standard guitar has a slight increase and then drops off at the low E, but on the v2.1 models there is a very steep increase up to the A and E.


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#9 edstar1960

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 11:59 PM

Where are all the JTV users that complained about this problem the first time it reared it's head?

 

Please add an update so we can get to the bottom of this particular issue one way or another.

 

Many thanks!                :)

 

I have added it to ideascale so we can bring attention to it and hopefully get it addressed, so please take a moment to vote for it if you want to see it fixed, here is the link: 

http://line6.ideasca...-1/619937-23508

 

Thanks!             :)


Edited by edstar1960, 13 May 2014 - 12:28 AM.

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#10 chuckewheat

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:14 AM

1. 1,9 to 2.0

2.JTV-59

3." USB Death Dongle"---which failed and actually bricked my guitar.

4. Adjusted all affected models in Workbench HD after being returned from Line6 Service.

5. Only noticed it on Spank & Tele Mods.

6. Did not have any volume issues w/ 1.9.....Came installed at time of purchase.

 

Not even going to try 2.1, I feel safe with what I've got working right now and I sure as heck WON"T hook up with "The Death Dongle" again for up-dates. Will use my partners HD500 or just call it good enough.


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#11 edstar1960

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:04 AM

Calling everyone who had an issue with string volume balance on some models when they installed either v2.0 or v2.1 firmware but did not have a problem with v1.9 or earlier firmware.  

 

I know plenty of people complained about this issue when v2.0 came out, and I know that you have either tweaked the volumes in WB or decided to stay on v1.9 or earlier.     In fact, the string volume balance being way off may be the reason why people decided they could not live with the new HD models and rolled back because obviously the new models would sound bad if the string volume balance was way off, so if we can get it fixed then everyone will be able to try out the new HD models as they are meant to be heard straight after the install without having to adjust them drastically in WB to get them playable.

 

We are not talking about slight volume differences here - we are talking about over 6db of gain difference - for example, on the T-MOD pos 1, the high E sounds like a Telecaster bridge pickup on about 3/4 volume, and the low E sounds like a LP bridge pickup on full volume.   That is not normal string volume variation.   Sure it can be adjusted in WB but it should not be like that fresh from the firmware install.   So, is it a hardware issue that has come to light with v2.0 and v2.1 firmware but only on some JTVs, or is it a firmware install glitch that only comes to light on some JTVs when moving from v1.9 (non-HD) to either v2.0 or v2.1 (HD)?  We don't know .... yet.

 

Gathering the data and sharing it will help determine what is the root cause of this issue and hopefully then it can be fixed.

 

Please can everyone who has had this issue contribute to this thread and share their experience and data.

 

Thanks very much for your help.               :)


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#12 Inerzia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

In my experience, there is not only a difference in volume, but also in character and timbre, as if some strings were from a different guitar (on some models, and not always the same strings)
I recently tried again to make it work (in fact I just rolled back to 1.9 this tuesday) because I like some of the new models better, and all of them are more responsive, but, even having compensated all the volumes (between strings and also between models) to my taste, I still prefered the non HD hollowbodies and semis, and I use them a lot. The 2nd and 4th positions on the strat would have been nice (although I still prefer the non-HD versions) if I hadn't encountered those differences in character that I just mentioned.
I think L6 should solve that, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. It's just sad to see how this long awaited HD stuff came out half cooked. The ideas are good, as always, and there's a significant amount of nice work put into it, but...
Anyway, I paid for something, I got that something and it still works as it first did. Even better, because there are some updates I could use.


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#13 Rewolf48

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:07 AM

I haven't tried rolling back - I'm on the latest version but from playing around last night Ed is definitely right - it happens on all the models, it is just that the Strat and Tele models show the difference more than the others.  I already had Global String Volume changes set-up before the upgrade that seemed to carry over so I am going to have a play with the Global String Volumes again before mucking around with the individual patches.

 

I would expect that the thinner strings will produce less of a signal from the piezos as the output is based on mechanical force, and I wonder if this latest firmware version reduces compression in order to get more dynamics, and therefore exposes the imbalance in levels more. 


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#14 Slidedude

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:28 AM

I was using the Dobro sound on a song and noticed the high E was a lot lower in volume.

 

Went into WB and dropped the other ones....seems much better.

 

Ah, computer guitars. Tweak tweak tweak. I pretty much use my JTV59 for recording at home and that's about it. Live I grab a Tele or a Strat. The JTV59 went wonky on me at one too many gigs, so now she's in the south forty....lol


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#15 edstar1960

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:32 AM

Line 6 support have logged this as a bug, however, no idea when they can get round to addressing it. I have raised it on ideascale and if it gets enough votes then it will attract a higher priority to be investigated and fixed. Please vote to have it fixed.
Thanks.
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#16 clay-man

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:50 AM

Nice thread. I wish there was a solid response by a professional to why this happens.


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#17 edstar1960

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:54 AM

Just a gentle reminder that if you have experienced this issue then please take a moment to comment in this thread and to vote for it to be fixed on ideascale. 

 

Here is the link:  http://line6.ideasca...-1/619937-23508

 

Thank you.


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#18 edstar1960

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:05 AM

Please add to this thread if you have experienced this problem - thank you.


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#19 Rewolf48

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:41 AM

I have been troubled with this (as above) and since upgrading firmware wasn't getting great sounds - especially the acoustics that I had to lower the global string levels for in an earlier firmware release - my working Acoustic patches had all sorts of compression, eq and reverb on them to bring it to life while others were saying no effects needed at all.  I decided that the firmware really cannot be that bad if loads of people are not complaining, so perhaps something that I did in combination with firmware updates has caused a problem; and I decided to play around with the serious intention of getting the JTV working as it should.

 

First I tweaked the physical set-up a bit to return it to factory - I had previously lowered the pickups a bit so I raised them back up again, and I had the trem springs slightly over tight, so I slackened them off so that the plate is tilted slightly towards the neck.  Didn't really make any difference, but it should potentially have added some magnetic damping to the strings and reduced a bit the pressure on the piezos. It didn't seem to make much difference - still not happy.

 

Open Workbench HD. Global String Levels.  These had been adjusted when an earlier firmware had made the acoustics appear over loud and compressed with no dynamics at all, and again when I change to 11s.  Subsequent firmware updates appeared to have retained the settings and had adjusted from that position with later firmware upgrades and this quiet top strings problem. Deciding that I might as well go back to the beginning with them I simply pulled them all back up to 100%...

 

What the Lollypop!?! JTV comes to life - the acoustics that I had expected to be the same over-compressed mess were nothing of the sort and with no effects they were exactly what they should be.  The other guitars seemed good too, but to make sure that everything was reset I reloaded my backup of the factory bundle. And it is like having a completely new set-up.  Before somebody points out that just raising the levels to make it all louder can give this effect - I know this is the case and allowed for it.

 

And the Strats? The top two strings are very slightly quieter than the others in the same way they are on a real Strat because of the narrower string gauge, but not the significant and unplayable lower level they had been before that had required major level adjustments to the patches.

 

My thoughts are tending towards something relating to Global String Levels adjustments not being quite as compatible across firmware updates as they appeared to be, and for others with this problem - can I suggest you try the same; don't just tweak carried-over GSL settings, but reset them all to 100% and see what happens.  Worst case is that you can restore them back to where they were, but it might be turn out to be unnecessary.


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#20 chimp_spanner

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:57 AM

Also experiencing this problem. Thought it was just my imagination!


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#21 edstar1960

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 04:41 AM

I have been troubled with this (as above) and since upgrading firmware wasn't getting great sounds - especially the acoustics that I had to lower the global string levels for in an earlier firmware release - my working Acoustic patches had all sorts of compression, eq and reverb on them to bring it to life while others were saying no effects needed at all.  I decided that the firmware really cannot be that bad if loads of people are not complaining, so perhaps something that I did in combination with firmware updates has caused a problem; and I decided to play around with the serious intention of getting the JTV working as it should.

 

First I tweaked the physical set-up a bit to return it to factory - I had previously lowered the pickups a bit so I raised them back up again, and I had the trem springs slightly over tight, so I slackened them off so that the plate is tilted slightly towards the neck.  Didn't really make any difference, but it should potentially have added some magnetic damping to the strings and reduced a bit the pressure on the piezos. It didn't seem to make much difference - still not happy.

 

Open Workbench HD. Global String Levels.  These had been adjusted when an earlier firmware had made the acoustics appear over loud and compressed with no dynamics at all, and again when I change to 11s.  Subsequent firmware updates appeared to have retained the settings and had adjusted from that position with later firmware upgrades and this quiet top strings problem. Deciding that I might as well go back to the beginning with them I simply pulled them all back up to 100%...

 

What the Lollypop!?! JTV comes to life - the acoustics that I had expected to be the same over-compressed mess were nothing of the sort and with no effects they were exactly what they should be.  The other guitars seemed good too, but to make sure that everything was reset I reloaded my backup of the factory bundle. And it is like having a completely new set-up.  Before somebody points out that just raising the levels to make it all louder can give this effect - I know this is the case and allowed for it.

 

And the Strats? The top two strings are very slightly quieter than the others in the same way they are on a real Strat because of the narrower string gauge, but not the significant and unplayable lower level they had been before that had required major level adjustments to the patches.

 

My thoughts are tending towards something relating to Global String Levels adjustments not being quite as compatible across firmware updates as they appeared to be, and for others with this problem - can I suggest you try the same; don't just tweak carried-over GSL settings, but reset them all to 100% and see what happens.  Worst case is that you can restore them back to where they were, but it might be turn out to be unnecessary.

 

Thanks for the tip!    I thought I had already tried that but can't recall it having the dramatic fix all effect that you have reported - so maybe I need to try it again.  I have already spent several hours adjusting global string volumes and individual model string volumes to overcome the volume discrepancy - so I will need to reserve a few hours to try resetting everything and see if it does resolve the issue for me.


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#22 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 05:35 AM

Good find.  That might explain why some have this problem and others don't.  Mine behaves the way yours does after you made this change.  String volumes sound very much the way I would expect on the Strat models.  I compared them to my Strat with same 10 gauge strings on it.  Very similar.


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#23 McLenison

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

I have been troubled with this (as above) and since upgrading firmware wasn't getting great sounds - especially the acoustics that I had to lower the global string levels for in an earlier firmware release - my working Acoustic patches had all sorts of compression, eq and reverb on them to bring it to life while others were saying no effects needed at all.  I decided that the firmware really cannot be that bad if loads of people are not complaining, so perhaps something that I did in combination with firmware updates has caused a problem; and I decided to play around with the serious intention of getting the JTV working as it should.

 

First I tweaked the physical set-up a bit to return it to factory - I had previously lowered the pickups a bit so I raised them back up again, and I had the trem springs slightly over tight, so I slackened them off so that the plate is tilted slightly towards the neck.  Didn't really make any difference, but it should potentially have added some magnetic damping to the strings and reduced a bit the pressure on the piezos. It didn't seem to make much difference - still not happy.

 

Open Workbench HD. Global String Levels.  These had been adjusted when an earlier firmware had made the acoustics appear over loud and compressed with no dynamics at all, and again when I change to 11s.  Subsequent firmware updates appeared to have retained the settings and had adjusted from that position with later firmware upgrades and this quiet top strings problem. Deciding that I might as well go back to the beginning with them I simply pulled them all back up to 100%...

 

What the Lollypop!?! JTV comes to life - the acoustics that I had expected to be the same over-compressed mess were nothing of the sort and with no effects they were exactly what they should be.  The other guitars seemed good too, but to make sure that everything was reset I reloaded my backup of the factory bundle. And it is like having a completely new set-up.  Before somebody points out that just raising the levels to make it all louder can give this effect - I know this is the case and allowed for it.

 

And the Strats? The top two strings are very slightly quieter than the others in the same way they are on a real Strat because of the narrower string gauge, but not the significant and unplayable lower level they had been before that had required major level adjustments to the patches.

 

My thoughts are tending towards something relating to Global String Levels adjustments not being quite as compatible across firmware updates as they appeared to be, and for others with this problem - can I suggest you try the same; don't just tweak carried-over GSL settings, but reset them all to 100% and see what happens.  Worst case is that you can restore them back to where they were, but it might be turn out to be unnecessary.

 

I mainly only use acoustics, Rick 12 and sitar with my solo Beatles tribute.  Were the acoustics affected in 2.0 so that turning up the Global String Levels to 100% in WB remedied most noted issues?  I have never opened Work Bench, and I'm almost afraid to unless there is a major improvement.   For my own remedy, I did some major EQ tweaking of the acoustics with a Zoom multi-effects pedal primarily to reduce the percussive attack and add echo.  The only other thing I noticed was with the Rick 12 with both pups on the octave strings and unison strings were not too pronounced.  Not sure if I should live well enough alone.


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#24 clay-man

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:43 PM

I mainly only use acoustics, Rick 12 and sitar with my solo Beatles tribute.  Were the acoustics affected in 2.0 so that turning up the Global String Levels to 100% in WB remedied most noted issues?  I have never opened Work Bench, and I'm almost afraid to unless there is a major improvement.   For my own remedy, I did some major EQ tweaking of the acoustics with a Zoom multi-effects pedal primarily to reduce the percussive attack and add echo.  The only other thing I noticed was with the Rick 12 with both pups on the octave strings and unison strings were not too pronounced.  Not sure if I should live well enough alone.

 

You're acting like workbench will kill your guitar. It will do absolutely nothing like that. It's not like it's updating the firmware.

Trust me, it's fine. Workbench is great and I'm sure it can help solve your problems.

 

Backup your current patches if you ever want to roll them back.


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#25 McLenison

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:07 PM

You're acting like workbench will kill your guitar. It will do absolutely nothing like that. It's not like it's updating the firmware.

Trust me, it's fine. Workbench is great and I'm sure it can help solve your problems.

 

Backup your current patches if you ever want to roll them back.

 

Ok, thanks!  When I'm tweaking patches in WB, will I hear the resulting sound  tweaks in my headphones plugged into the computer or does it need to be routed to another source?


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#26 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

You will hear nothing on your computer through workbench.  You can have your guitar plugged into an amp and then you will hear the changes.  WB is fine now that they released the latest version that fixed the bug in the Strat pickups.  And it works with the Pod as an interface now too.  I never used it until those things were fixed but I use it now with no problems at all.


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