External Noise Gate???

[stevedodd]

Hi all,

 

Has anyone tried using an external noise gate of any description instead of the internal ones?

 

I'm trying to free up an effects block and it seems that an amp top noise gate might be an answer, thought I would throw it out there before spending any money to find its no good.

 

Thanks in advance :)

 

Steve

[BlueViolince]

Do you use a volume pedal block? If you haven't already, you can assign exp 1 or 2 to the volume knob on the amp models to free up a block.

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah, I have been having the same thought. Trying to integrate analog pedals into my HD500+DT25 rig, and I end up using a noise gate after the first sequence of pedals, and then I have more in the FX loop, so it seems like total overkill to add another noise gate!

 

My buddy that I jam with uses the first Decimator in his Fender tweed rig- it goes last in his FX loop, and I must say does a great job taming the noise. If you set it too strong it gobbles up all the sound, but if it's right at the edge where that white noise creeps in it's quite effective.

 

I know since then, ISP has made the Decimator II, and the Decimator II G-string, which is a dual channel noise gate, and can also be linked to a second unit.

 

I was looking at the dual channel version, it has direct input tracking from the guitar, which claims to help with switching from clean to high gain without changing the threshold setting.

 

Here are some links; I have a feeling once I free up space on the top of my pedalboard by moving the power supply underneath, this may be the next piece of the puzzle.. Not an inexpensive piece of gear! But it's that kind of thing, you connect a bunch of different pieces of gear, various power sources, multiple this and that, and your bound to hear some noise..

 

ISP Decimator II

 

ISP Decimator II G-String

 

"The new design allows connection of the processing channel of the Decimatorâ„¢ to be inserted into your effects loop or after your high gain pedals or preamp"

 

 

[ColonelForbin]

This video actually does a good job explaining how to use it in "effects loop" mode - you plug guitar into it first, then it also has a second channel that you run in your effects loop, post gain / pedals, etc.

 

[BlueViolince]

Similar to the NS-2?

[ColonelForbin]

Similar to the NS-2?

 

Sort of - not sure; the ISP just has one knob. Not sure how the NS-2 functions, in terms of the four jacks. With the ISP II g-string, you run it first in the chain, but it is not doing a noise gate function at that stage, it's just sampling / listening to your guitar.

 

The actual noise gate function occurs in the FX loop - the ISP needs to be almost last in the FX loop - before the reverbs and delays however. Here is where it pairs what it's hearing from your guitar, and isolating the difference between noise up front and induced noise down the line. I don't think it will actually work up front as a noise gate, which may be a difference in how the Boss functions.

 

From looking at the Boss NS-2 manual, it looks like they have you plug the guitar into the NS-2 guitar in, and then connect your effects / stomp boxes into the NS-2 send/return loop, and then run the output from the NS-2 into your delay pedals and such.

 

According to the ISP Decimator II G-String manual:

 

"The Decimator II G String has 4 ¼ inch jacks.  Connect  the  guitar directly to  the  Guitar IN.  

Connect  the  Guitar  OUT  to  the  input  of  the amplifier.    

 

Connect  the  DEC  IN  to  the  loop send  and  DEC  OUT  to  the  loop  return.   

For best performance place all gain pedals in front of  the amplifier  and DEC  IN.   

 

You can  put Delay  and  Reverb effects  pedals after  the Decimator  II  G  String

and  before the  loop return to  avoid  cutting off  reverb  and  delay tails."

 

Mine just arrived today! But it's looking like I won't have time to connect it up with the rig until (hopefully) this weekend.

Will let ya know how well it plays with a bunch of analog pedals - in this case the "amp" is my HD500 L6Linked to a DT25, so the Decimator will actually be the last thing in the FX loop before the fx loop return going to the HD500.

[BlueViolince]

That's pretty much how the NS-2 works. I also ran mine in the same type of chain.

[gunpointmetal]

personally, I would use an external gate FIRST in the chain, before you hit the HD500...if you put it after your output, you're gonna gate delay and reverb trails, as well as fighting the volume created by effects on/off etc. throughout your patches/chain.  With it out front, it won't mess with your ambient effects, and you only need to worry about adjusting the settings if you change instruments. This method doesn't help any if you have a noisy effect in your digital chain, but at least you're not messing with the decay of your effects....plus you can usually "Set it and forget it" when its out front unless you're gain varies very widely.

[ColonelForbin]

personally, I would use an external gate FIRST in the chain, before you hit the HD500...if you put it after your output, you're gonna gate delay and reverb trails, as well as fighting the volume created by effects on/off etc. throughout your patches/chain.  With it out front, it won't mess with your ambient effects, and you only need to worry about adjusting the settings if you change instruments. This method doesn't help any if you have a noisy effect in your digital chain, but at least you're not messing with the decay of your effects....plus you can usually "Set it and forget it" when its out front unless you're gain varies very widely.

 

Yeah, I am going through some (probably) needless brain damage assembling an overly complex take on how to use the HD500+JTV59+DT25+analog pedalboard.

 

In a nutshell (because I am crazy for doing this!) I am using both the VDI and the 1/4" out from the JTV59. I send the VDI to the HD500, and run that on amp path A; and I split the two inputs to two isolated amp chains in the HD500 patch. The JTV 1/4" goes into the analog pedals, in a sequence something like this: (I am still waiting on two pedals to arrive from Keeley, so I still haven't been able to test out this full rig idea)

 

And I fully agree about noise gate happening before the delay and reverb. From what I understand about the Decimator II G-string, even though you place it first in the signal chain, the actual noise gate effect doesn't occur until the DEC IN and DEC OUT are connected, which in my case, is in the HD500 FX loop, as the last item before the HD500 Fx loop return, which then feeds into the delays and reverb, post noise-gate. I have to mess around with whether I want to keep the FX loop in only the amp path B, or if I want to place it after the two amp model signals are merged. I am thinking I will try it both ways, and see what works / sounds best. Originally I was going to have alot more stuff in the FX loop,and now it's just chorus and phaser and noise gate, so that might make sense to merge the signals before I run it through those FX; we'll see. I may also push the phaser back to "pre" portion of the pedalboard path, and run it after the drive pedals, after the 2nd comp, before the clean boost. We'll see how it all works, and what sounds best! I want to use the tap tempo feature on it, and the ramp function, to get that leslie speaker sound, so I don't know if that would sound better across the whole signal, or just on the analog side of the path.

 

[HD500 guitar in / amp model path B]

1. Decimator II G-string noise gate (tracking only, does not noise gate this signal)

2. Keeley 4-knob compressor #1

3. Sonuus Wahoo

4. Keeley Neutrino (envelope filter)

5. Keeley White Sands (overdrive)

6. Keeley Bootlegger (overdrive)

7. Keeley 4-knob compressor #2

8. Keeley Time Machine (clean boost / treble boost)>>

9.-->> to HD500 guitar in

10. HD500 amp model B

11. HD500 fx loop send-->>

12. Keeley phaser

13. Keeley Seafoam (chorus)

14. Decimator DEC IN > DEC OUT -->> (this is where the actual noise gate effect is applied)

15. -->>to HD500 fx loop return

 

At this point, I merge the two HD500 amp model paths to a single mono mix and send them into post FX:

1. HD500 fx loop send-->>

2. Keeley phaser

3. Keeley Seafoam (chorus)

4. Decimator DEC IN > DEC OUT -->> (this is where the actual noise gate effect is applied)

5. -->>to HD500 fx loop return

6. HD500 Volume pedal

7. HD500 delay

8. HD500 reverb #1

9. HD500 reverb #2

10. L6Link to DT25.

 

Stepping back to the VDI path, I run this on amp path A, because that's the cleanest direct path to the tuner.

I then run the VDI input on it's own parallel signal path, with some basic FX blocks like this:

 

HD500 VDI input / amp model path A:

1. HD500 wah

2. HD500 comp

3. HD500 screamer

4. HD500 amp model A>>

 

(merges with amp model path B > to FX loop then to delays and reverbs)