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#1 janneke

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:14 AM

Hello,

 

I'm about to play my first couple of shows HD 500 and I want to use it as an amp (so just pod-> xlr out -> PA), but I have a problem keeping the volume levels even through patches. I'm using a few patches for clean sounds and a bunch of others for distorted and lead sounds. But when I'm on let's say clean A and I switch to distorted B the volume level drops (just because of the settings I dialed in, not because of any technical error or similar). I find it quite hard to dial all the settings to right about the same volume, so is there somekind of failsafe way to do this? Otherwise I'll just screw up all of our gigs :D.

 

Thanks,

Janneke


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#2 zaboomafoo

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:14 PM

This was asked many times on the old forum, try to search through the archives.

 

Basically there are few points to keep in mind:

 

1) Set levels for your patches using the same (or close to same) setup as you will on the gig - same amp, input configuration, etc

2) Play at the same level as what you expect to play on the gig. If you set patch levels at the low levels, they will not sound the same when turned up.

3) Try to do the above in the band setup, when everybody is playing. again when you with the band some frequencies could be drowned by other instruments.

4) at the end you will find that what sounds good on its own does not sound good or loud enough in the band setup. Mid range boost often helps to stick on top and often it doesn't sound good when you play on your own.

5) As you noted, clean sounds most of the time appear louder than distorted.

 

There is more and it is very hard to balance patches properly, but you can get close enough - probably after the gig :) .

 

zbf


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#3 joemama78

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:10 PM

I find it good to use some sort of dB meter as a guide. I plug it in to the computer and record, watching the levels and adjusting the mixer on each patch accordingly. Remember, dBs are only a guide, not a concrete goal. Your clean patches will not be as loud as your dirty patches. Overdrive/distortion patches will be pretty compressed, but clean patches will be more dynamic, so I try to make sure that my clean patches peak at the same volume as my OD patches (i.e. when I strum all six strings firmly). Adjust the POD's mixer output accordingly as you go during practice to get your final levels.


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#4 JTSC777

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:31 PM

Tweak your patches at VOLUME! That means loud. Most important. Go through with the editor and set all patch levels at 50 percent so you have headroom because especially with the Line 6 HD units any patch with a distorted amp/effects will be much lower in output volume than the clean ones. My other processors don't do that to such an extreme but with my HD300 I quickly run out of output volume in a dist. patch when balancing it with a clean. Use the volume pot on the guitar too. These HD models clean up well and you can have a lot of variation in the same patch. Lastly take breaks every 15 or 20 minutes to let your ears rest whilst tweaking patches and don't do it when you are tired. When you feel tired so are your ears. Good Luck!


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#5 bribrew1968

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:46 AM

I have a handheld dB meter at home.  Ya it was $60 but does the job.  I sit away from amp, turn it up to a volume representing band rehearsal, then adjust volume to nearly the same levels.  Also, set the foot-pedal to adjust the amp volume on HD500.  IT can create an instant adjustment ... on the fly so to speak.

 

The big mistake here is that sometime a little extra 'umph' is needed when playing leads ... use compression and or distortion levels to get yourself cut through the mix.


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#6 spankygtr

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

The volume discrepancies between patches (and models, specifically), has long been a pet peeve of mine. i still think Line 6 should attempt to equalize them (at least a little bit-have mercy!) out of the box, so users can spend more time playing, and less time doing unneccessary tweaking.


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#7 Tboneous

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

The question that comes to mind for me when this question is asked is "how many amp models does one guitarist need to cycle through during a gig?" Most working guitarist I've seen use 1 amp for a gig. Some of the heavy hitters may use 2 in stereo. One amp may be for the clean and the other for the grit. Metal heavies my use 10 amps but they are typically the same amp. I have yet to see a guitarist stage set up consist of a Dr. Z a Mesa Boogie, an AC -30, a Plexi, a Soldano a Bassman a Gibson and a Fender Blackface.

When I first got my Pod, I totally geeked out with all of the options available. My guitar didn't sound like a guitar anymore. I have now simplified my set up. I use a dual amp patch with a Gibtone and a Blackface. Expression pedals control the volumes on each amp and because I use a JT69, the tone knob on the guitar controls the gain of both amps. throw in a screamer and bada bing! If I want heavier gain, I roll up the Gibtone. Need some clean. Roll up the blackface. add a chorus and some reverb to the chain and now there is no more patch changing. I just toggle on or off the effects I need for the song.

The caveat here is this: I'm doing original material so I am not trying to emulate someone else's tone. Maybe that is where the rub lies. But I still believe that going simple is the way to go. If you only use 1 amp, you won't be a victim of wild volume shifts.
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#8 moondancer

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:01 AM

The question that comes to mind for me when this question is asked is "how many amp models does one guitarist need to cycle through during a gig?" Most working guitarist I've seen use 1 amp for a gig. Some of the heavy hitters may use 2 in stereo. One amp may be for the clean and the other for the grit. Metal heavies my use 10 amps but they are typically the same amp. I have yet to see a guitarist stage set up consist of a Dr. Z a Mesa Boogie, an AC -30, a Plexi, a Soldano a Bassman a Gibson and a Fender Blackface.

When I first got my Pod, I totally geeked out with all of the options available. My guitar didn't sound like a guitar anymore. I have now simplified my set up. I use a dual amp patch with a Gibtone and a Blackface. Expression pedals control the volumes on each amp and because I use a JT69, the tone knob on the guitar controls the gain of both amps. throw in a screamer and bada bing! If I want heavier gain, I roll up the Gibtone. Need some clean. Roll up the blackface. add a chorus and some reverb to the chain and now there is no more patch changing. I just toggle on or off the effects I need for the song.

The caveat here is this: I'm doing original material so I am not trying to emulate someone else's tone. Maybe that is where the rub lies. But I still believe that going simple is the way to go. If you only use 1 amp, you won't be a victim of wild volume shifts.

 

IMHO if this is your thinking, you don't need a POD HD.

Of course - working as cover-band - I want to copy the sound of the original, hence I need a tool that gives all the possibilities to me.

 

Otherwise I would look for great clean sound, a distortion pedal and a good multi-effect processor.

 

BTW the POD HD (500) has a lot of option to get equal volumes in your sounds, i. e. the amps himself, the mixer, compressor, equalizer and first of all your experience and a strategy.

Once you've covered the unequal volumes, you aim your new sounds always to the lowest patch. That's it!


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Stay tuned brothers

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#9 Tboneous

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

IMHO if this is your thinking, you don't need a POD HD.

Of course - working as cover-band - I want to copy the sound of the original, hence I need a tool that gives all the possibilities to me.

 

Otherwise I would look for great clean sound, a distortion pedal and a good multi-effect processor.

 

BTW the POD HD (500) has a lot of option to get equal volumes in your sounds, i. e. the amps himself, the mixer, compressor, equalizer and first of all your experience and a strategy.

Once you've covered the unequal volumes, you aim your new sounds always to the lowest patch. That's it!

 

That is my thinking in a live setup. I find that cycling through amp model after amp model doesn't give me very good results. But again, I am not doing cover songs where I am attempting to copy someones tone.

 

As far as not needing a Pod, you may be right, In as far as I don't need an fx pedal that goes from a warm bluesy Bassman to a screaming ball crushing Treadplate for the music I play live. It's either one or the other. Rarely both on one gig. My patches are tad bit more involved than mentioned in my above post, I did abbreviate in the interest of time, but they do generally revolve around a Gibtone and a Blackface.

 

Lastly, you mentioned that I would be better off looking for a good clean sound, a distortion and a good multi Fx pedal. Well, the Pod is a good multiFx pedal that has several great distortions, my DT50 2x12 has a great clean tone and my Two Rock Jet rounds out the middle.

 

Now for recording, I am all over the map with my Pod. I use it all! Treadplate for my Fender Rhodes, Soldanos for my Didgeridoo, the list goes on and on. But even in a controlled setting like recording, I STILL don't cycle through 12 different amp models in the middle of a song or passage. At least I have yet to find that the need to do that. I am open to it if it sounds good!


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#10 Leftzilla

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:53 AM

I use my HD 500 for an 80s cover band and for an Original Prog band and run direct to the PA.  I primarily use the Patch volume to equalize out my patches and use the FX Loop to give myself a 3db boost for lead work.   I will in the Prog band flip between up to 4 different patches with different guitars for each since I run a Variax with the VDI cable.  Try going from a Les Paul Neck, to a Fender Out of Phase, to a Sitar and then an Acoustic on top of amp/effect combinations to really challenge your level volume.  But if I can do it with those combinations you should have no problem it will just take a little time.


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#11 sozeg

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:03 AM

Hi leftzilla. Do you reckon the best way to equalise volume is the amp volume control? I wasn't sure whether this would change the tone of the amp and maybe the mixer would be better?
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#12 medbad5150

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:35 AM

watching this thread carefully because that exactly my proble..we play from U2, Van Halen, The Killers, Elvis, George Michael and that only a few of the 170 songs and artists I cover. Easy to say use clean or treadplate, but do the Killers use same distorion as EVH, Sambora or the Edge? And what about Brian May? That is simplyfying distortion and O/D which we all know is hard to patch in for one artist let alone 50!

 

Does the clean of Nile Rodgers sound the same as BB King? Same for effects

 

Yeah buddy don't fret cos I have the same problem with volume, trouble is..most of the people here are right. It's a case of keeping it simpler. I used to have a patch per song with my Boss GT-10 but it killed me.

 

Going downstairs to get on it, loads of gigs coming up and little time to play with patch volumes, cos its never ending.

 

But love the HD500 anyway!


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#13 phil_m

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:16 AM

IMHO if this is your thinking, you don't need a POD HD.

Of course - working as cover-band - I want to copy the sound of the original, hence I need a tool that gives all the possibilities to me.

 

Otherwise I would look for great clean sound, a distortion pedal and a good multi-effect processor.

 

Not necessarily... There are other reasons for using a POD rather than going the amp and effects route. One of them is if you're in an environment where stage volume is extremely limited, and you have to go direct.  The POD is a great solution there even if you don't use a lot of amp models.

 

I actually tend to agree with the philosophy that in a live situation, the less patches you have to deal with, the better. I have never liked the idea of having dedicated presets for every song. It just seems things become unmanageable pretty quickly. But that's just how my brain works.


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#14 Tboneous

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

I actually tend to agree with the philosophy that in a live situation, the less patches you have to deal with, the better. I have never liked the idea of having dedicated presets for every song. It just seems things become unmanageable pretty quickly. But that's just how my brain works.

 

Amen!

 

One way to get a good volume is to assign the amp model to a button on the pedal board so you can toggle the amp model on and off. Set your amp to the appropriate volume without any amp model. Once that is dialed in toggle on your amp model. it will either be too loud or to soft. Toggle on and off between your amp model and your amp without modeling. Make them the same volume and hit save. Its best to do this with your band at volume.

 

Then add other fx. Your volume may go up or down depending on which fx you use. But at least now you have narrowed your issue to tweaking your fx instead of messing with your amp volume.


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#15 sozeg

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

There is some really great advice here and there's no doubt that the less patches and individuals amps you use the better. However as a few people have said, this isn't always possible. I play in a Rush tribute band and through the decades Alex lifeson has complete gear overhauls using an a array of different amps and guitars. It isn't possible to simulate these sounds using just one or even two amps. 


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#16 Tboneous

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:10 PM

There is some really great advice here and there's no doubt that the less patches and individuals amps you use the better. However as a few people have said, this isn't always possible. I play in a Rush tribute band and through the decades Alex lifeson has complete gear overhauls using an a array of different amps and guitars. It isn't possible to simulate these sounds using just one or even two amps. 


It is true that Alex Lifeson has changed gear many many times. But...(and please forgive me if I am displaying my OCD on this topic) today Alex Lifeson only uses 1 Hughes & Kettner amp tweeked 3 different ways on stage to reproduce his tones from the first Rush album in 1974 until now. He doesn't lug every Marshall or Boogie he has ever recorded with on tour with him and start cycling through each amp for every song. And yet when he rocks Fly By Night or Cygnus X-1 it sounds Dy-No-Mite! If Alex Lifeson can do it with 1 amp so can you! So can anyone who struggles with getting the HD500 to maintain a consistent volume level across the various amp models.

Simplify your amp set up and your volume issues go away.

Or.....

Stop wasting time typing on this forum and get to tweaking them patches until you get your levels right across the 20 different models we feel we must have to play a gig! Times a wastin'!

Besides...messin with our gear is kinda fun ain't it?
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#17 moondancer

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:13 PM

@Tboneous

who I am to tell you what you should do!

I only wrote what I would do. And BTW in most of the points we agree. I also try to use less amp models and try to learn to dial them in. E. g. for clean sound I use most of the times the Blackface 'Lux for his warmth, for distortion the Threadplate for his versatility. The Threadplate you can use with 0 % drive up to 75 % from dirty clean to hi gain and you can get always enough output.

One can change the sound a lot by the distortion pedals (I only us the first 4 types) a little bit of compressor (red comp) and a little bit of mid focus eq.

The diversity in the HD500 is sometimes bone-crushing, so I also try to concentrate myself on a smaller choice of amps and fx and learn to handle them saving time ;)

As a musician you have a more ambitious thinking in sound and playing. 90% of the audience won't hear what will give you sleepless nights  :D


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Stay tuned brothers

Regards Edgar


#18 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

Hello,

 

I'm about to play my first couple of shows HD 500 and I want to use it as an amp (so just pod-> xlr out -> PA), but I have a problem keeping the volume levels even through patches. I'm using a few patches for clean sounds and a bunch of others for distorted and lead sounds. But when I'm on let's say clean A and I switch to distorted B the volume level drops (just because of the settings I dialed in, not because of any technical error or similar). I find it quite hard to dial all the settings to right about the same volume, so is there somekind of failsafe way to do this? Otherwise I'll just screw up all of our gigs :D.

 

Thanks,

Janneke

The best way from my experience is to plug your XLR into an audio interface or anything that has a meter. That's how I do all my patches and they all have the same levels or pretty darn close. You can compensate to level patches by using the amp level or the mixer setting inside the POD. I'm guessing the reason Line 6 don't provide meters in the edit screen is due to the different volume levels of SPDIF, XLR, unbalanced outputs etc.


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#19 Tboneous

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:32 AM

@Tboneous

who I am to tell you what you should do!

I only wrote what I would do. And BTW in most of the points we agree. I also try to use less amp models and try to learn to dial them in. E. g. for clean sound I use most of the times the Blackface 'Lux for his warmth, for distortion the Threadplate for his versatility. The Threadplate you can use with 0 % drive up to 75 % from dirty clean to hi gain and you can get always enough output.

One can change the sound a lot by the distortion pedals (I only us the first 4 types) a little bit of compressor (red comp) and a little bit of mid focus eq.

The diversity in the HD500 is sometimes bone-crushing, so I also try to concentrate myself on a smaller choice of amps and fx and learn to handle them saving time ;)

As a musician you have a more ambitious thinking in sound and playing. 90% of the audience won't hear what will give you sleepless nights  :D

I think you nailed it. When got my pod I had an amp for this song and one for that song and two for this other song. Once I simplified my approach, things got much easier. I started with just making one amp sound fantastic. I had multiple patches with the same amp model but with different fx. I really learned how to make that amp sing! Used it for all of my gigs. Then I went to a different amp and did the same thing. With all of the tweaking one can do with just the amp (DEP, Mic selection, Cab selection, Cab parameters etc) it will keep you busy. 

 

I think some people, myself included, see all of the options of the Pod and start salivating and blowing through the patches without really sitting with each parameter, each fx. Then at the end, we wonder why this thing doesn't sound right. Or why is it so loud on this patch an so soft on this other one. 

 

Not saying that everyone does this. I just know I did and I'm sure others did as well. 

 

Perfect example is a DR.Z Route 66 amp. The only thing to tweak on that amp is Volume Bass and Treble. And that amp sounds terrific! When you have less knobs bells and whistles, there is less opportunity to mess stuff up!


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#20 sozeg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

It is true that Alex Lifeson has changed gear many many times. But...(and please forgive me if I am displaying my OCD on this topic) today Alex Lifeson only uses 1 Hughes & Kettner amp tweeked 3 different ways on stage to reproduce his tones from the first Rush album in 1974 until now. He doesn't lug every Marshall or Boogie he has ever recorded with on tour with him and start cycling through each amp for every song. And yet when he rocks Fly By Night or Cygnus X-1 it sounds Dy-No-Mite! If Alex Lifeson can do it with 1 amp so can you! So can anyone who struggles with getting the HD500 to maintain a consistent volume level across the various amp models.
Simplify your amp set up and your volume issues go away.
Or.....
Stop wasting time typing on this forum and get to tweaking them patches until you get your levels right across the 20 different models we feel we must have to play a gig! Times a wastin'!
Besides...messin with our gear is kinda fun ain't it?


Thanks dude. I have to say though that on the current tour Alex Lifeson does humpf loads of amps, he no longer uses cabs but uses about 4 heads. He doesn't use Hughes &Kettner anymore. He uses Mesa boogie and custom made Lerxst amps which are really Marshalls, a ton of effects and uses Apple Logic to get even more sounds. That's why as a tribute band I need to use loads of different amps in the hd500. If you look on google you'll find his tech taking you through all the gear on t he latest tour.
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#21 sozeg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

Sorry, actually he does use H&k as well as Mesa and Lerxst!




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#22 sozeg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

Here's another one!


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#23 bjnette

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

There are so many volume variables on the HD that balancing patches is a chore.

You could say the HD500 has some volume options that are extra and not really needed and to simplify by removing the the variables you can get patch switching balance.

The Amp Volume and gain are part of your tone, effecting these to change volume is effecting your tone. This is one of those mouse wheels.

Your Master out is not where to balance from one patch to the next. It is for gain matching to your monitoring device, h'phones, Amp, PA etc.

Where you balance your patches is in the mixer volume page. Cycle thru your own made patches only adjusting your mixer volume.

Heaps simpler.

If your matching high gain amp to a clean Amp you might go negative volume numbers at first for the former.

The SPL meter on your phone app can help you get in the ball park but your ears have the final say.


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#24 phil_m

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

The Amp Volume and gain are part of your tone, effecting these to change volume is effecting your tone.

Actually, increasing the volume with the channel volume knob in the amp block doesn't change the tone. The way to think of that parameter is simply as a volume control for the the amp block itself. It's not related to any of the amp modeling. Now changing the drive or the master volume DEP will affect the tone. If you put effects after the amp block, changing the volume with the channel volume parameter can potentially cause clipping in some effects.


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#25 bjnette

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:57 AM

Yeah it is in the Amp block, so part of the Amps volume control.

I personally have it on full for most of my clean patches less for high gain.

I use the mixer volume to get the level posty amp FX.


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#26 Tboneous

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:15 AM

Thanks dude. I have to say though that on the current tour Alex Lifeson does humpf loads of amps, he no longer uses cabs but uses about 4 heads. He doesn't use Hughes &Kettner anymore. He uses Mesa boogie and custom made Lerxst amps which are really Marshalls, a ton of effects and uses Apple Logic to get even more sounds. That's why as a tribute band I need to use loads of different amps in the hd500. If you look on google you'll find his tech taking you through all the gear on t he latest tour.

Fair enough. I'm sure that you have figured out how to get your volume levels just right across the various amp models that you are using.for those who are still struggling with leveling between amp models, there are many great suggestions on this forum. My contribution to the discussion is to simplify your amp selections. Pick one or two and make them sing! I guess it comes down to working with the suggestion that best works with your situation.

I have to say, as a proponent of my own suggestion, Alex Lifeson did a fine job making Rush sound like Rush with 4 Marshall combos (see ultimate guitar interview 1980) & long before Apple Logic existed on the planet or Huges & Kettner or Boogie for that matter. Rush tribute Bands existed long before Apple Logic, Hughes & Kettner Line 6 or amp modeling. I would bet that they did just fine sounding like Alex Lifeson with a guitar, some fx and one Marshall 100 watt amp.
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#27 gckelloch

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:15 PM

Yeah it is in the Amp block, so part of the Amps volume control.

I personally have it on full for most of my clean patches less for high gain.

I use the mixer volume to get the level posty amp FX.

The Amp Chanel Output level only controls the output of the amp sound.  It does not affect the amp sound at all. The DEP Master knob controls the amp gain, thereby affecting amp tone and response.  It is best to keep the Channel Output near 50% as a reference point with your high gain tones so you don't clip any post amp FX or the D/A converter.  You can set it up higher for clean tones, but it depends on how much bass is in the tone.  The Speaker Cab DEP Cutoff, Res and Thump will affect output, so you may need to adjust the Channel Output if you change them.  I think the way to check is through a unity gain configured USB audio panel with peak meters and the Pod HD Mixer Block levels set up to 0 with pans full L and R.  If the USB audio meters don't peak, neither should any internal Pod HD post amp FX.  You should generally leave ~3-6dB headroom in the USB meters to ensure no digital clipping.  It's fine if it's a bit lower than that.


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#28 AndyParedes

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:50 PM

I often start with whatever is the "cleanest/quietest" tone and put that channel volume at 90-95% (just in case I need to adjust against something later). I say "quietest" as a clean Marshall (i.e. Andy Summers/James Honeymoon Scott) will need that headroom to be balanced against a blazing high-gain amp.  I then balance all the tones in my setlist from there - first at a low volume and then at performance volume.  I find some mid-frequencies tend to cut a little harder at high volume that may not be offensive at lower volumes, so it is good to check at both levels.  There are extra ways to control the volume on the HD (additional mixer and amp master controls - didn't have that on the PODxt!) that can be experimented with as needed f you run into a situation later and don't want to re-balance all your patches... 

Also - when going to a PA with a POD I tend to put the master output on "line" (if using a 1/4" cable) and put it at 100% to get optimal signal/noise and not scare the soundperson if I accidently move the knob during performance.


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#29 gckelloch

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:01 PM

Makes sense Andy, but I wouldn't use the amp DEP Master for level adjustment.  It affects the amp model response and distortion.  Use the amp Channel Output for level.  RIP: James Honeyman Scott.  I'm a big early Pretenders fan.


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