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Using "other" powered speakers for mains/monitors w/ m20d?


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#1 egkor

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:02 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

After being a Line 6 customer for tools other than Live Sound/PA, after research and reading these forums, I went ahead and purchased a m20d and 2 L3Ts. 

 

I currently use a simple old-school Yamaha powered PA head (MX512?) and (2) Yamaha passive speakers (SM15V) for mains/monitors.  

 

My needs are:

 

1)  Solo acoustic guitar/vocal, would use single L3t

2)  Duo acoustic guitar and keyboard, vocals, would use L3t(s) w/ m20d as acoustic guitar and vocal amp system with one L3t configured as a single main, the other L3t configured as a monitor

3)  Classic Rock full band, acoustic and electric guitar(s)+male/female vocalists+drummer with electronic drum kit, would use m20d and both L3t(s) as FOH, with a feed from the m20d to some other monitor system  

 

My question is this:

 

Does anyone use the m20d mixer with other brand powered speakers for mains/monitors?

 

I am aware of the virtues of the L3t's:  Line 6 Link, scalability, integration with the m20d, self-configuration, etc.

 

!!!!  --->>>  But, I could also save a significant $ amount if I went with other brands' powered speakers for mains/monitors.

 

I haven't unboxed the L3t(s) yet, I was wanting to ask this question first and see what feedback I received, knowing full well I'm asking this in a Line 6 StageScape/StageSource forum.  :)

 

Thanks!

 

 


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Live Sound: Line 6: m20d, 2 x L3t, 2 x L2m 

Variax:  JTV-69 (manuf. 3/2012), Variax 500 (manuf. ~2003)
Guitar Amps:  DT50 Head, DT25 Head, 2-Marshall 1936 2x12 cab (2xCelestion G12T-75)
Modellers:  POD HD500
Other:   Fender Strat HSS, MIM (~2012), Taylor 614ce (2011), Taylor 315ce (2010)


#2 dieterstoll

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:06 AM

Not a problem at all. I do so all the time (using RCF's TT-08A powered speakers, not necessarily a money saving option compared to Line6's offerings, but they happened to be around before the move to M20d).


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#3 silverhead

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:25 AM

....

2)  Duo acoustic guitar and keyboard, vocals, would use L3t(s) w/ m20d as acoustic guitar and vocal amp system with one L3t configured as a single main, the other L3t configured as a monitor

.....

 

I am aware of the virtues of the L3t's:  Line 6 Link, scalability, integration with the m20d, self-configuration, etc.

 

!!!!  --->>>  But, I could also save a significant $ amount if I went with other brands' powered speakers for mains/monitors.

 

.....

 

An alternative for your #2 situation is to leave the M20d out of the setup. Connect your 2 L3t via bi-directional L6 LINK and use their two onboard side-panel mixers for  your guitar and vocal inputs. Putting your acoustic guitars into Channel 1 of each speaker allows you to use the L3t Acoustic Guitar modeling, which I find delivers a better result than an M20d preset. As for vocals, use Channel 2; there is less flexibility here than with the M20d in terms of FX but results are still very good. Your keyboard can go into the rear-panel line inputs on one of the L3t. Both L3t speakers will deliver the full 5-input sound. And you still have additional rear-panel inputs if you need them.

 

And you are right: the virtue of the L6 Link compatibility among all devices comes with a price tag. Other speakers will work just fine, but the L3t will be better. I find the sound quality/clarity of the L3 speakers to be exceptional on their own even without the L6 Link benefits. Are they worth the extra $$? Only you can decide that.

 

Is there a return period for the L3t? Maybe you can temporarily acquire alternate speakers during this period and compare with your L3t. Then return whichever set you want.


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#4 gordwait

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:43 AM

We use powered Yorkville NX55s and subs for mains with the M20d. No problems.

 

The parametric EQ on the output channels - and - the live real time analyzer make it very easy to tune the room. 

 

I rented an L2T for a bit as a vocal monitor, sounded very nice, much nicer than the Yorkvilles..


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#5 Octo777

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:54 AM

The M20d is pretty versatile and I've used it in a number of different configurations.

 

My most common set up I use is for my Acoustic Duo. At one point I had 3 L3m's and so used two for FOH and one for Monitor all using L6 Link and it worked beautifully.

 

For full Band set ups, I used it in the same way with the addition of 2 L3s Subs and either one or two (depending on the size of the stage) Behringer Foldback monitors and I had no issues with the fact that I was using both a monitor on L6 Link as well as two monitors from the Monitor outputs.

 

Ultimately, I found carrying 3 L3m's quite cumbersome, especially for acoustic gigs and so opted to sell off an L3m and now I just use the Behringer Monitors.

 

If money allows, I will definitely look into getting some L2 speakers for Monitors though.

 

I guess to sum up, yeah I use the M20d with both Line 6 and other brand speakers and it works beautifully.


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#6 egkor

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:29 AM

Hi again Everyone,

 

Wow, Thank you!  I appreciate your responses!

 

I am still undecided about the Line 6 speakers (L3ts), and I knew that staying all Line 6 would be pricey (it is what it is), going in.

 

I do have a return period, and that will allow me to do some additional investigation.

 

Thanks again!


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Live Sound: Line 6: m20d, 2 x L3t, 2 x L2m 

Variax:  JTV-69 (manuf. 3/2012), Variax 500 (manuf. ~2003)
Guitar Amps:  DT50 Head, DT25 Head, 2-Marshall 1936 2x12 cab (2xCelestion G12T-75)
Modellers:  POD HD500
Other:   Fender Strat HSS, MIM (~2012), Taylor 614ce (2011), Taylor 315ce (2010)


#7 litesnsirens

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:22 PM

My advice would be to stick with what you have.  If you are using the L3t's mainly to amplify vocals and guitars.  If you are going to run bass and drums through it I would recommend adding an L3s at some point.  I don't want to start any arguments over whether or not the Line 6 speaker match up to this speaker or that speaker, that on it's own has little merit and is likely a matter of taste and needs.  To me the bigger issue is how good these speakers sound with THIS system and how effortless it is to get good sound at every gig in any room.  I'm not sure how much money you can potentially save scaling down but it would have to be worth more than the security of knowing you'll have good sound at every gig. 

 

You could potentially in scenario 2 and 3 set the speakers up behind you and ring out the feedback before you perform.  I've done this on a few occasions before I got any monitoring system and made it work.  I think it'll depend on the venue, and placement of the speakers etc as to how loud you could get the system.  I managed to get it pretty freakin' loud but your mileage may vary.  I just thought I would throw that out there in case you wanted to experiment with this.


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#8 egkor

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:43 PM

Hi @litesnsirens,

I want to keep the system Line 6 for at least what I've managed to assemble at this point (m20d and 2x L3t).

Your and others' posts are helping me choose to keep it that way, justification as you mentioned in your post.

Thanks for posting, it is good insight and information!
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Live Sound: Line 6: m20d, 2 x L3t, 2 x L2m 

Variax:  JTV-69 (manuf. 3/2012), Variax 500 (manuf. ~2003)
Guitar Amps:  DT50 Head, DT25 Head, 2-Marshall 1936 2x12 cab (2xCelestion G12T-75)
Modellers:  POD HD500
Other:   Fender Strat HSS, MIM (~2012), Taylor 614ce (2011), Taylor 315ce (2010)


#9 Digital-sound

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:15 PM

You won't find an easier, better sound than the m20d and the l3 series speakers. You will find a satisfying sound, but not the "wow" sound you will get with the line 6 speakers and the m20d. And you will need NOTHING else for sound. No external eq, FX, processor. Nothing. And you will have GREAT sound.
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#10 egkor

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:50 PM

You won't find an easier, better sound than the m20d and the l3 series speakers. You will find a satisfying sound, but not the "wow" sound you will get with the line 6 speakers and the m20d. And you will need NOTHING else for sound. No external eq, FX, processor. Nothing. And you will have GREAT sound.

 

Thanks @Digital-sound!

 

I've learned a lot reading your other posts about the system.

 

Thanks to all the positive replies, I'm at the point now where I intend to march forward with the m20d and 2x L3t.

 

Thanks again to all!


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Live Sound: Line 6: m20d, 2 x L3t, 2 x L2m 

Variax:  JTV-69 (manuf. 3/2012), Variax 500 (manuf. ~2003)
Guitar Amps:  DT50 Head, DT25 Head, 2-Marshall 1936 2x12 cab (2xCelestion G12T-75)
Modellers:  POD HD500
Other:   Fender Strat HSS, MIM (~2012), Taylor 614ce (2011), Taylor 315ce (2010)


#11 ryanneal

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:54 PM

Hi

I have a similiar question and did not see a direct answer in this thread...

 

Q:  Can any other powered speaker or powered monitor (ie QSC DSP Speakers)  be used via a L6 Link Cable, and connected to the M20d?

Will the M20d treat the OTHERS the same (ie auto assignment, daisy chain, etc)...

OR

Will a Non-Line6 Stagesource speaker need to be separately wired to the PA (not daisy chained), and separately programed?

 

I too would like to save some money, and maybe buy another brand, but I don't want to lose any significant functionality...  Note, that I'm not too concerend about losing the auto-sensing speaker vs monitor, depending on whether a speaker is horizontal or vertical...  I am more interested in knowing if the DSP states can be dictated by the M20D, once I tell the M20d what the Other powered speakers will live as.

 

Thanks

Ryan


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#12 quadcabby

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:55 AM

Hi Ryan

 

Only line 6 branded products work on the L6 Link protocol. Hence if you wish to use other than Line 6 speakers as monitors you will need to keep them out of the L6 Link cabling. You can however mix your monitors and have some wired via the Link and others (need to be active) directly from the monitors outs.

 

So lets say we have 2xL3 speakers as FOH and 1xL2 as a monitor and then a couple of other brand active monitors. Set up would be from M20 Line 6 Link out to in of 1st L3 (FOH) then out from there to the L2 in (monitor) and out to the 2nd L3 in(FOH). The desk would see the L2 as monitor A. You then have 3 monitor outs left to assign as you see fit to your other brand active monitors. If you added a second L2 as a monitor then the M20 would add it as monitor B leaving you 2 other brand outs and so on.

I do this regularly

Just be aware that the M20 assigns the L6 monitors by their position on the cable run although I believe you can change that in the M20 set up. I haven't got that far in yet!!


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#13 litesnsirens

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:27 PM

To add to my previous reply in regards to some options to try here, I have, along with my in ear monitoring option, created a pretty good option for regular monitors. 

 

I will get into my particular setup after I speak to the connections so that if you want to continue reading you can if not... you can click away.

 

If you think that the house mix would be good enough for the band to listen to for monitoring then this will work for you.  Set up your Line 6 speakers using Line 6 link as you normally would.  Then from the back or your L3t or L2t speakers come from the XLR mix out to the line in of your powered monitors. This is just theory, but I think that since the L3t is only getting frequencies above 120 hz (depending on your crossover point) it should only pass on frequencies above that point to the powered monitors.  And since those frequencies coming out of the L3s are omnidirectional you will hear them as well behind the speakers as you do in front.  A lot of these powered monitor options have linking capabilities so the rest of the set up and how many monitors you set up will be up to you.  But you can set up at least one from each L3t on each side of the stage. 

 

Now for my specific non in ear set up.

 

I purchased a pair of Yorkville Sound NX10C speakers.  They are pretty cool little speakers that are plenty loud for monitor use, coaxial so they are compact and lightweight and have a unique pole through mounting design that makes them fit nicely into my system.

 

I have 2 X L3t and 2 X L3s.  I also have both long poles and short poles from Line 6.  I purchased a couple of pole mount brackets which I was able to attach to the top of my L3t's.  So my set up goes like this ... L3s with short pole attached L3t goes on to the short pole of L3s.  Long pole goes into the bracket on top of the L3t.  The Nx10c slides onto the long pole and basically sits directly on top of the L3t but is secure due to the pole mount.  Then I have a compact but powerful LED lighting rig that is mounted on top of the long pole.  It's all very neat and compact. 

 

The NX10c speakers are set at 45 degrees facing the band so kind of an XY config from each of the two speaker towers.  Yes, the speakers are a little above head height (unless you're really tall) and they don't angle down and yet it works. In fact other band members described the monitoring experience as amazing with lots of headroom before feedback .  In fact for us so far, it actually gets to the point of being uncomfortably loud before we start getting feedback issues.  That said if you've playing with the drummer set against a large window and he moves his vocal mic out of the way directly into the window, you could probably conjure up some feedback.


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#14 shredjsx

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 04:25 PM

I know this may sound funny and simple, but I ran my 16 channel mixer into the left/ right rca jacks of my l3t and did the panning from there, then monitor out from my mixer to a power amp left right channels to my monitors....
Can't afford the line 6 mixer... But it works great...
I have also ran the mixer into the mic/instrument inputs on the L3t...
But it colors the tone to much
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#15 ryanneal

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 06:44 PM

Great info.  Really helps.

Thanks!!!

 

I also intend to mount the DMX onto the top of the mains.  High enough, fewer stands to haul around.

Great idea!!!

Ryan


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#16 litesnsirens

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 07:09 PM

I had some pictures of my rig but I don't know where they are now.  I have a gig this Friday in which we are going to use this set up that I was referring to ...  I'll get some pics and post them.


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#17 BucF16

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:53 AM

I know this may sound funny and simple, but I ran my 16 channel mixer into the left/ right rca jacks of my l3t and did the panning from there, then monitor out from my mixer to a power amp left right channels to my monitors....
Can't afford the line 6 mixer... But it works great...
I have also ran the mixer into the mic/instrument inputs on the L3t...
But it colors the tone to much

Why in the world would you do it that way?

 

Why not run from your mixer to the Line level input?


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#18 shredjsx

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:08 AM

because I sometimes hook my acoustics direct into those because of the modeling, also my board has no effects, so for the main mic I usually hook that up direct for reverb

I guess it's kinda dumb, but it works....
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#19 BucF16

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:20 AM

Specifically:

Why run your 16 channel mixer, which I'm certain has a Main L/R out, to your speakers via the RCA jacks?

 

OR

 

Why run your mixer to the instrument Ins on the speakers?

 

Again, your 16 channel mixer has a Main L/R out. Why not run that to the line level in's on the speakers LIKE IT's DESIGNED FOR.

 

You say you've run your mixer into the instruments and it "colors" the sound...probably because those are instrument ins and not Line ins.


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#20 shredjsx

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 07:23 PM

Thanks so much, I'll try it....

My main full Yamaha PA system is down at my dads in southern IL, ten hours away, so I really have no PA other than the l3t right now and I bought it for my HD500x but it does so much more that I want to utilize it as well as a guitar cab...

That being said.
When you have the 6 Link hooked up to your POD, do you use the PA setting on the back or the guitar cab setting?
Sometimes I have found that the PA setting gives my HD500x guitar settings a little clearer, with more definition and thump, and since I'm using it as a PA too?

What do you think or use on the channels on the back of the l3t?
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#21 BucF16

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 12:38 AM

I've almost always used PA/Reference with the POD with the POD cabinet settings on.

 

(If using an L2 with some other non-POD guitar pre-amp I found electric guitar sounded better.  But for something with decent cabinet emulations, why turn off the tweeter?)

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but I think you can run the POD into L6 Link, simultaneously while running mic's into the two channel mixer.  You can actually run another input through your POD via L6 Link.  Not sure that I would ever perform like that unless I really had to though.

 

The channels on the side of an L2/L3t I've only used when playing a small room with a 1 or 2 person group.  That way you don't need to bring a mixer, everyone just plugs directly into a speaker.  I've only ever used them on L2's in an acoustic type group.  For anything else, I have an M20D.


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