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Should I Jump From A Vetta To A Dt50/hd500 Setup?

vetta hd 500 dt50

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#1 ChuckSteak01

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

Hey all!

 

     I've been using a Vetta I amp for about the last 10 years, but I've come to a crossroad with it.  The main display screen doesn't work any more (can't edit patches!) and over time an annoying hum has devolped when the amp is on(nothing plugged in).  So at this point I can either pay to have a tech look it over/ fix it or spend that money on a new rig.

 

    My question is to anyone with experience using a Vetta.  Do you feel that a DT50/HD 500 set up is a significant improvement?  Do the effects/distortions/reverbs/etc sound better (less digital?)  I'm hoping to crap my pants at the difference!  I haven't personally demoed either, but I'm thinking of getting them from somewhere with a good return policy as I know a store testdrive isn't enough time to really get a feel for these things.  Also, am I correct in thinking that 50w tube amp is equivilant in volume to a 100w solidstate amp?

 

     Convince me to drop $1800! ;)


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#2 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:22 AM

I've never owned a vetta... and if there's some real math to it i'm not aware.... but to my ears 50 watt tube amp is closer to a 500 watt solid state... very loud! I would think you'd probably be louder than the vetta with the DT25 25 watt version.

not having heard the vetta, or your particular tones with it, a direct comparison isn't something i can offer... but the tech behind the new HD stuff is well improved. It may require some patience and some learning... but I think your efforts would be worthwhile.


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#3 lef38

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:16 AM

Regarding the hum, have you tried to plug your amp in different places ? It could just be a bad local electrical network.

The DT25 is very loud, I can't compare it to a solid state equivalent, but should you need more power, buy a second DT25 ! You'd get more power + real dual amp tones.

Now the effects are pretty good, but regarding distortions & fuzz, honestly you can achieve way better tones with pedals.


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#4 bribrew1968

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:34 AM

I never owned a Vetta either, but the DT50 212 is ungodly loud.  The tube effect on my strat and LP is unmatched.  Also, I have HD500 ... its the real deal.  The learning curve is high as Zap said, but I find the tweaking fun.  Go to a local Guitar Center and give it a good, 3 hour look.  Also, spend time in the forums researching.  All reviews are good, but look on youtube for hands on reviews where peeps are actually using it.

 

I did all this and eventually made the jump ... haven't looked back since ...


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#5 ChuckSteak01

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 10:46 AM

Thanks for the advice, everyone. 

 

My experience with tube amps has been limited.  My thinking is to get the dt50 1X12 with the option of the extra cab if I ever needed it.  Now I might need to consider the 25w version!

For the distortion effects, I agree that an independant pedal is usually better(the only pedal I use is an Ibanez tube screamer from Analogue Man).  I was mostly curious if the effects, overall, are more refined than previous efforts by Line 6.  I play in a rather ecclectic band that requiers me to go from clean-surf-metal-jazz-rock tones within a given set.  But hey, that's why this technology is so awesome!

Concerning the hum in the Vetta, it is definitely more noticeable in certain outlets than others, but always there to a degree (I am aware of how grounding can effect this).


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#6 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

the HD500 effects are from the M13, it came after the vetta i believe and are well regarded... like everything else it has it's critics... but i think it's alot better than the X-series effects, which might have been closer to the vetta effects.


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#7 sliding_billy

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:20 AM

My take... I have a Vetta HD (with VDI), a DT50 HD, a POD HD500 and a JTV.  I think the difference between the Vetta by itself and the DT50 by itself is night and day in terms of organic sound/feel.  Add in the HD500 with or without the JTV, and I think it is only marginally different.  It is a bit more like running the POD through a tube power amp at that point, better but not perfect.  With the JTV over VDI, the difference is also marginal between the same setup on the Vetta or DT50/HD500.  Don't get me wrong, I love the tone of the dream rig, but I also got great tone out of my Vetta and continue to get great tone out of it.  I will keep it because I still like to play through it.  You really need to demo all of your options.  You may not "crap your pants" at the sound of the DT with the HD, but then again you might.  I actually play my DT more with an analog guitar and no POD, but it you need a lot of effects, presets and other options that may not be an option for you.

 

Also, I have no issues dialing the DT50 back to a reasonable volume and would prefer to have the available power if needed vs. getting a DT25.


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#8 MGblade

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:27 AM

Add in the HD500 with or without the JTV, and I think it is only marginally different.  It is a bit more like running the POD through a tube power amp at that point, better but not perfect.

i know there is allot to say about this topic, but doesn't the dt uses the same pod pre amps.

i have a dt25 /hd500 and i get amazing tone out of it, ok not perfect, don,t think there is a perfect rig.

have tried dt25 alone with effects from the pod, also great, but in my opinion not better in terms of organic sound and feel.


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#9 TheRealZap

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:31 AM

you're right, the DT and the HD use the same preamps...

 

I also think that although billy was getting "good sounds at any volume" with his DT50... he's missing the point of a genuine tube amp rather than a model...

if you aren't pushing the tubes to their limit you aren't quite getting the real deal....

that's why people pay hundreds of dollars for attentuators rather than just turning the volume down....

and it's also why a cranked/pushed DT25 might be a better option than a cranked/pushed DT50 for many... because the DT50 is too loud for many situations when properly cranked.

 

i know there is allot to say about this topic, but doesn't the dt uses the same pod pre amps.

i have a dt25 /hd500 and i get amazing tone out of it, ok not perfect, don,t think there is a perfect rig.

have tried dt25 alone with effects from the pod, also great, but in my opinion not better in terms of organic sound and feel.


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#10 oldgitguy

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:03 AM

I started out with a Spider iv HD 150 head and custom Peavey slant cab 4x12 that has dual inputs for the head.

I added a Dt25 about a week ago. Wow! Huge improvement!

If I were you I would seriously look at the Dt25.

It offers me so much more than I can even use right now. I also have a Pod HD Pro and FBV MKii controller.

I am very satisfied with the sound, cab models and ability to change just about everything.

I mainly use it in my home studio for jazz, blues, zen music recording.

Did I mention my JTV69 is my favorite guitar with this new amp? I would go for the Dt25!


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#11 ChuckSteak01

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

Thanks everyone for the further advice.  Yeah, I'm starting to think the DT25 is the way to go.  Plus, it's got all the knobs on top of the amp instead of the front.


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#12 sliding_billy

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:16 AM

you're right, the DT and the HD use the same preamps...

 

I also think that although billy was getting "good sounds at any volume" with his DT50... he's missing the point of a genuine tube amp rather than a model...

if you aren't pushing the tubes to their limit you aren't quite getting the real deal....

that's why people pay hundreds of dollars for attentuators rather than just turning the volume down....

and it's also why a cranked/pushed DT25 might be a better option than a cranked/pushed DT50 for many... because the DT50 is too loud for many situations when properly cranked.

Not missing the point of pushing tubes at all (been pushing them for over 30 years in small, medium and large venues).  Just saying that the benefit of having more power available when I want/need it is more important to me than the ability to push the tubes all the time and potentially not have reserves left.  I am not saying it is the only right opinion, but it is mine.  That is why I said it is what I would prefer.  Also, if you are going to quote me, please quote me.  I said at a "reasonable" volume, not "any volume."


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#13 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:44 AM

was just giving another side to the coin dude.. nothing wrong with the way you use it... i have the DT50 and probably use mine much the same way...

just throwing that knowledge out there... wasn't meant to be a direct quote only a paraphrase to put the knowledge drop in context.

 

Not missing the point of pushing tubes at all (been pushing them for over 30 years in small, medium and large venues).  Just saying that the benefit of having more power available when I want/need it is more important to me than the ability to push the tubes all the time and potentially not have reserves left.  I am not saying it is the only right opinion, but it is mine.  That is why I said it is what I would prefer.  Also, if you are going to quote me, please quote me.  I said at a "reasonable" volume, not "any volume."


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#14 ChuckSteak01

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:41 AM

Oh boy, looks like the thermostat got turned up around here! ;)

 

Anyway, I ended up ordering a Dt25/Hd 500 and they should be here early next week.  I'll report back after I've had a chance to mess with them to give my comparison to a Vetta.  Ultimate test will be later this month when I have an outdoor gig and an indoor gig in the same day.  Hope I don't miss the global EQ too much.  Am I correct in my understanding that the master volume is the only "global EQ" parameter on my new rig, or is there an update to expand this?  If not, any tips to adjust tone to suit the venue that ya'll might have come across would be appreciated!


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#15 sliding_billy

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:26 AM

It's all good (on my end) Zap.  I just didn't appreciate you telling someone that I was "missing the point" as if I didn't understand how tube amps worked and paraphrasing me when a direct quote was just as easy and would not have put words in my mouth.


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#16 Tboneous

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

I opted for the DT 50 2x12 for the simple reason, I was able to get it new for $1,000. Plus I wanted the biggest and the baddest and the loudest! But the best part is this...If I ever feel that I would have been better with a DT25, I pull the master volume knob and Bada Bing!...I now have a DT25! 

 

Purty Kool Huh?


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#17 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:20 PM

pretty inaccurate too... you do realize that you are switching to full amp models and not preamps+real tube amp

that's the difference between full mode and low volume mode...

granted it sounds pretty good anyway... but there is a difference :)

 

I opted for the DT 50 2x12 for the simple reason, I was able to get it new for $1,000. Plus I wanted the biggest and the baddest and the loudest! But the best part is this...If I ever feel that I would have been better with a DT25, I pull the master volume knob and Bada Bing!...I now have a DT25! 

 

Purty Kool Huh?


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#18 Tboneous

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

pretty inaccurate too... you do realize that you are switching to full amp models and not preamps+real tube amp
that's the difference between full mode and low volume mode...
granted it sounds pretty good anyway... but there is a difference :)

??? Not quite sure what you mean. All I know is that if my DT50 is bringing too much heat to a room, I pull that knob, volume goes down and I am able to rock the house without bursting ear drums.

By all means, enlighten me!
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#19 phil_m

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

??? Not quite sure what you mean. All I know is that if my DT50 is bringing too much heat to a room, I pull that knob, volume goes down and I am able to rock the house without bursting ear drums.

 

In low volume mode, you're essentially depending completely on the digital modeling to get the tone. The DT50 is acting more or less like a tube power amp. You'll notice in low volume mode, the class and pentode/triode switches don't do anything. That's because the analog topology circuitry is being bypassed.

 

To run the DT50 at 25W, you switch the the pentode/triode switch to triode. And even then, it's not really the same as a DT25. The DT50 uses EL34 tubes while the DT25 uses EL84 tubes. Running EL34 in a triode configuration isn't really the same as running EL84 tubes in pentode.


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#20 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:57 PM

what he said. :D

 

In low volume mode, you're essentially depending completely on the digital modeling to get the tone. The DT50 is acting more or less like a tube power amp. You'll notice in low volume mode, the class and pentode/triode switches don't do anything. That's because the analog topology circuitry is being bypassed.

 

To run the DT50 at 25W, you switch the the pentode/triode switch to triode. And even then, it's not really the same as a DT25. The DT50 uses EL34 tubes while the DT25 uses EL84 tubes. Running EL34 in a triode configuration isn't really the same as running EL84 tubes in pentode.


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#21 Tboneous

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:58 AM

I'm learning so much! So if I pull the switch, should I use full model amps on my Pod? Conversely, when the switch is in, should I use pre models? Or does that not matter?
I have never been a rule follower when it comes to music. If it sounds good, I roll with it.
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#22 TheRealZap

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:10 AM

doesn't matter... if you pull the switch the amp will internally use the full model, regardless of which one is selected in the pod.

 

I'm learning so much! So if I pull the switch, should I use full model amps on my Pod? Conversely, when the switch is in, should I use pre models? Or does that not matter?
I have never been a rule follower when it comes to music. If it sounds good, I roll with it.


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#23 toneman2121

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:20 AM

I WANT A DT25 BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND CASH WITH OUT A JOB, SOMEBODY GET ME A JOB!  :angry: please? :(  :wub: 


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#24 Tboneous

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:34 AM

doesn't matter... if you pull the switch the amp will internally use the full model, regardless of which one is selected in the pod.

 

Thanx!

 

I WANT A DT25 BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND CASH WITH OUT A JOB, SOMEBODY GET ME A JOB!  :angry: please? :(  :wub: 

 

A job ain't nothin' but WORK! Man...go 'head on and get yourself a DT25. Shoot.... go for the DT50! Why mess around! 

 

Disclaimer: (To be read really really fast) The advice given is the property of ME and does not reflect the opinions of Line 6 or any of its subsidiaries, You should consult a financial advisor before purchasing a DT25, DT50 or any other Line 6 Product)

 

But Dude,...Seriously, GO FOR IT!


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#25 geppert

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:52 AM

Anyway, I ended up ordering a Dt25/Hd 500 and they should be here early next week.  I'll report back after I've had a chance to mess with them to give my comparison to a Vetta.  Ultimate test will be later this month when I have an outdoor gig and an indoor gig in the same day.  Hope I don't miss the global EQ too much.  Am I correct in my understanding that the master volume is the only "global EQ" parameter on my new rig, or is there an update to expand this?  If not, any tips to adjust tone to suit the venue that ya'll might have come across would be appreciated!

 

 

C.S. ... Congrats on ordering a DT25. Let us know what you think? I LOVE my DT25 head/cab. The available sonic combinations are fantastic. I also have a HD500 but I seem to prefer using the preamps in the amp.


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#26 toneman2121

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:08 AM

Thanx!

 

 

A job ain't nothin' but WORK! Man...go 'head on and get yourself a DT25. Shoot.... go for the DT50! Why mess around! 

 

Disclaimer: (To be read really really fast) The advice given is the property of ME and does not reflect the opinions of Line 6 or any of its subsidiaries, You should consult a financial advisor before purchasing a DT25, DT50 or any other Line 6 Product)

 

But Dude,...Seriously, GO FOR IT!

i've consulted my accountant, lawyer and analyst. my accountant advised against it. my lawyer said if i get one we can still sue regardless of the disclaimer and my analyst said you're both crazy :blink:  


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#27 Tboneous

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:47 PM

Love it!

 

i've consulted my accountant, lawyer and analyst. my accountant advised against it. my lawyer said if i get one we can still sue regardless of the disclaimer and my analyst said you're both crazy :blink:  


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#28 jws1982

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:35 AM

If I remember correctly, the Vetta head had a 300w power amp section, just to be able to emulate the additional headroom a tube amp provides.  Didn't the combo have a 150w amp?

 

Oh, and yes, I think the switch from a Vetta to HD500/DTxx combo is worth it.  The modelling in the Vetta was great when it came out (it's still pretty good), but the quality of the newer stuff is a big improvement to me.


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