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Dream Rig: How to switch between Acoustic/Direct Out and Electric/DT?


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#1 mlriess

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:27 AM

I now have the mythical "Dream Rig" (Variax + POD 500X + DT 25), and I like it a lot - however, I haven't found a solutions to this problem:

 

Patch 1: Variax Acoustic/Sitar/etc., no amp modelling, direct out

Patch 2: Electric guitar sound and amp, routed to DT 25 and miked

 

Of course I know that I can use the direct out and the DT route at the same time - but in order for switching between those patches to work properly, I would have to mute the DT when Patch 1 is active (I know how to do that), and to mute the direct out when Patch 2 is active. So far, I haven't found a way to do the latter.

 

Of course I could forget the miking and also use the direct out for patch 2, but then I wouldn't get the benefits of the tube amplification ...

 

Is there a solution for this problem?


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#2 radatats

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:18 AM

If I understand right, you want one patch to go to the DT25 only, no FOH, and the other patch to go FOH only, no DT25.  I don't know of a way to disable the XLR or 1/4 outs but you can accomlish this within your patch. Basically you will run in mono to the DT and the FOH.

 

Put the mixer block as the LAST block in the chain and run all post effects between the amp block and the mixer.

 

Keep DT signal path in channel A and mute channel B in the mixer, pan to center.

 

Keep FOH signal path in channel B and mute channel A in the mixer, pan to center.

 

FOH connected to right XLR-1/4 out.  DT connected with L6 link, keep Channel B volume on DT at Zero.

 

Now you will be able to have two separate feeds, one to the DT and the other to FOH selectable by patch.

 

You can also have two different tones out at the same time this way (if you don't run out of DSP) by keeping the paths separate, unmuting the mixer and panning hard left and right.  Put one tone set in Channel A and a different tone set in Channel B.


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#3 radatats

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:25 AM

After playing around with this some more I found using both the DT and the FOH feed is better when you send the DT signal straight from the amp block rather than from the mixer.  You can't use any post effects on it but you can set reverb in the DT if you want it.  I was able to get a nice acoustic tone through my PA with the electric from the DT. 

 

In the Mixer tab towards the bottom in the L6 LINK section select AMP 1 AUDIO to Amp Model A.  It now picks the signal right from the amp block output and sends it straight to the DT.  Now I can keep channel A muted in the mixer with channel B centered and not get any electric bleedover.  I set Input 1 to Variax Mags and input 2 to Variax with an acoustic model.

 

Always new things to learn!


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#4 wicker_man

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:38 AM

I put an FX loop block in the acoustic patches and then take the FX send signal.  With nothing coming back into the FX loop return, the signal does not go to the DT.

I've got a couple of patches where the amp model A path has the FX loop block and amp B set up for electric.  Using the expression pedal as a pan control I can blend between acoustic (direct) and electric (via DT25).  It's a flexible setup, just takes a bit of time to learn the tricks.


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#5 radatats

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:57 PM

can you post a patch using your setup to Customtone?  I am not understanding the Pan placement...

 

Here is one with my original idea (FS1 turns acoustic ON/OFF, FS5 turns electric ON/OFF):

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/388006/

 

And one using your idea without the Pan (FS1 turns acoustic ON/OFF, FS5 turns electric ON/OFF):

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/388007/


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#6 wicker_man

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:32 AM

Here goes:

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/389148/

 

The pan placement is right at the start of the chain to pan between path A and B.  Mags go to path A and variax acoustic to path B with the FX loop block pulling the signal off before it hits the mixer.  Pretty similar to your second patch. (Apologies, I had paths A and B reversed in my previous post).


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#7 jandrio

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:54 AM

wicker_man, I loaded by drag-n-drop ur patch Acoustic-Electric on HD500 Edit 'n I read on AMP-B BYP-VOL=0.
How does the signal reach FX loop with this setting?


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#8 wicker_man

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:03 AM

Amp B is disabled as I just wanted to pass the acoustic tone straight through to the FX loop block. 

 

wicker_man, I loaded by drag-n-drop ur patch Acoustic-Electric on HD500 Edit 'n I read on AMP-B BYP-VOL=0.
How does the signal reach FX loop with this setting?


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#9 jandrio

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:57 AM

but with BY-PASS-VOLUME=0 u don't pass any signal at all thru the FX loop....


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#10 wicker_man

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:11 AM

Sorry - I didn't word my last post very well.  It's a null amp block (no amp model), so bypass volume does not do anything.  Bypass volume only has an effect if you have an amp model in place but disabled.  With 'no amp' selected, the signal passes straight through.


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#11 Tboneous

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

Does this help in what you want to accomplish?

 


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#12 jegler

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:09 PM

great info, but nobody's mentioned the setup>output setting. when the DT's plugged in with L6 cable, HD500 defaults to "combo", but that setting makes the acoustic/direct sounds or any thing coming out of the XLR quite poopy.  the "studio direct" setting sounds great with the XLR but poopy with the DT. Am I missing something? I bet I am. What is it, please.


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#13 Tboneous

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:11 AM

great info, but nobody's mentioned the setup>output setting. when the DT's plugged in with L6 cable, HD500 defaults to "combo", but that setting makes the acoustic/direct sounds or any thing coming out of the XLR quite poopy.  the "studio direct" setting sounds great with the XLR but poopy with the DT. Am I missing something? I bet I am. What is it, please.

Studio/Direct.

For the DT, use only pre models and turn off cab simulation.


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#14 jegler

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

Studio/Direct.

For the DT, use only pre models and turn off cab simulation.

 

Yeah, I should have mentioned that I'm running in LVM mode. Which means I have to use the full models. 

 

Lemme just insert a quick complaint to Line 6 here: I HATE the fact that you can't monitor the DT's D.I. in full volume mode with the standby switch on. How do you guys level your patches or even practice with that situation? FVM is really loud on my amp, even with major tweaking on the POD. Trying to get a good board sound while the DT's blastin sucks. Leveling patches? I have a wife and kids for pity's sake. I kinda feel "forced" to use LVM, which means I have a totally different setup than a FVM user and can't achieve a lot of the tricks talked about in these forums.  Poop.

 


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#15 kawititnow

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:28 AM

Line 6 just posted this the other day: 

 

http://youtu.be/qK8X...g4NVWUTVTnfQiLg


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#16 grandinq

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:12 AM

Great video from Line 6!  The only thing that puzzled me is that it looked like he was setting the Variax preset on the non-acoustic patch.  But I might have just seen it incorrectly. 


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#17 wicker_man

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:27 AM

I've tried that approach, but I still have questions.

 

With my DT head connected by L6 link, the POD defaults to Stack/Power Amp output mode, so I would have to manually select Studio/Direct.  Whats more, to my ears having the POD in Studio/Direct compromises the electric tone through the DT.  I'm assuming the L2 was set to Acoustic Guitar speaker mode.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the EQ corrections applied for the non-Studio/Direct output modes only effective when there is an amp block used?  If so, it would still make more sense to me to have the POD in Stack or Combo output mode, because the electric sound would be optimised for the DT and the EQ corrections would have no effect on the acoustic tone.

 

Or am I talking lollipop?

 

As an aside, when I tried this approach with my dual electric/acoustic patch the other day I was getting a nasty popping sound from my L3t.  Fortunately, my L3t is being replaced tomorrow because of another fault, so it may be that I just have the runt of the litter.


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#18 kawititnow

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:16 AM

With my DT head connected by L6 link, the POD defaults to Stack/Power Amp output mode, so I would have to manually select Studio/Direct.  Whats more, to my ears having the POD in Studio/Direct compromises the electric tone through the DT.  I'm assuming the L2 was set to Acoustic Guitar speaker mode.

 

At the bottom of page 2-7 of the POD HD500X Advanced Users Guide there is a Note regarding Output Options that says: "this mode setting affects the signal fed to several POD HD500X outputs: Balanced, Unbalanced & Phones outputs as well as USB Record Send & L6 LINK audio outputs"

 

Which to me reads that the FX Loop Send/Return is NOT affected by the Output Options setting. Therefore I'd leave the Output set to Combo or Stack Power.

 

Once the signal leaves the FX Loop Send the POD is done and provides NO other output (L6, Balanced, etc.). The only way it could is if you were to hook up to the FX Loop Return, then the signal would be sent to the normal outputs (L6, Un/Balanced, etc.)

 

Hope this helps!!


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#19 kawititnow

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:26 AM

Also on your FX Loop settings, make sure that your values are setting accordingly:

 

SEND: 100%

RETURN: 0%

MIX: 100%

 

This ensures 100% of your signal is sent via the FX Loop Send and NONE of it gets passed to the DT amp.


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#20 wicker_man

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:41 AM

Thanks, that is a good point.  Makes complete sense too because you would not want any tone alteration on the signal sent to outboard effects.

 

I guess in the Line 6 video he had it set to Studio/Direct because he was only demoing the acoustic routing and had separate patches for the acoustic and electric


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