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2 M20d In Series


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#1 pierrebriend

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 10:18 PM

I had recently a gig with 30 mics and instrum inputs. I used an analogic mixer as auxiliairy to extend the number of input. I think that it would be a good idea to have a 2d M20d as auxiairy. What are the drawbacks to proceed like compared with a potential dreamly "M40d" may be coming one day?
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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

That's a really GREAT question, pierrebriend !  :)

 

I'm an old fogey who (for the last half century) has always preferred touring with two smaller consoles (very often "cascaded" as you've done) rather than one larger one.

 

Why ?

 

Here are just three reasons that spring immediately to my mind, from among a host of others:

  1. Redundancy. If one is "nuked" or lost, we've still got a show (albeit reduced) with the other one,
  2. That "cascade" allows a far greater range of options (such as grouping, routing, "splitting", accommodating multiple operators and/or different physical layouts) ...and
  3. The "main and sub" arrangement so created can often effectively yield a "physical block diagram" that makes for faster response in a crisis.

Now, ...hands up all those who've never had a crisis...  :rolleyes:


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#3 antonioctd

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

Ron, 

 

How do you go about monitor rooting in such scenarium?  

 

Say you have the whole drums in a sub mixer, is it possible to, for example, send more kick to the bassist monitor? 

 

Thanks a lot. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and helpful guy! 


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#4 RonMarton

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

You've done well in spotting that monitoring limitation, antonioctd !

(And your kind compliment is much appreciated.)

That sort of requirement can indeed require a pause for thought. (I've done it so often that the different "layouts" required for my diverse array of jobs are second nature to me, but may seem quite weird for anyone "looking over my shoulder".)

I usually handle a "large music" situation by allocating a "rhythm section" console which generally has its principal outputs fed into the "main" console as a stereo pair. That'll allow the bass, drum kit, percussion and (very often, but not always) keyboards easy access to a common "aux" or "monitor" feed.

The "trick" is to then "burn" just one or two additional input channels of that "rhythm section sub mixer" with a "front line" or separate "front line and vocal" buss (aux, group or "matrix") output/s from the "main" mixer, ...just to provide pre-fade individual monitoring for those rhythm players, ...with those "monitoring only" faders kept closed and preferably being those that are the hardest to access physically.

The "front line" (or "non-rhythm-section") performers then usually only require the "main" console to have similarly few "wasted" channels for their monitors to have access to a full "rhythm section" mix, or separate "rhythm and keys" mixes or whatever combination best suits the job. (Pretty much a "mirror image" cross-connection.)

For "presentation plus music" events, I'll mostly just bring the "music" console in as a "pre-packaged" stereo pair to the "spoken word plus A/V" console, often with each having its own operator.

I hope that gives you a better idea of the "divide and conquer" approach I posted earlier, however...

LINE 6's "GENIUS DEPT." - TAKE NOTE:

From almost the start of this Millennium, (and in common with our regular collaborators in the Sydney Opera House) our twelve TV OB Vans (Remote Trucks) and a few of our larger TV studios have relied (and continue to rely) on the mind-boggling flexibility and sonic excellence of the ethernet (EuCon) interconnected, distributed intelligence granted by our considerable inventory of the Euphonix (now Avid) System 5 http://www.avid.com/...s/avid-system-5.

You'll notice that there's no pricing structure attached to the above-linked information.

I reckon the (very good) reason for that might just be that my rough calculation reveals that a System 5 configured to "kinda-sorta" M20d spec would cost about fifty times (that's right 50 x) as much ! (Without having anything remotely like the StageScape touch-screen GUI...) :wacko:

So, Genius Dept., you're doing pretty darned well so far.

But how about this... (?)

The M20d's fabulous "AES-like" L6 Link system already allows for the intuitive automated "mapping" and remote control of L3 monitoring systems ...and presumably, other systems still in development.

Now, a (possibly huge) re-jig to allow the "carry through cascading" of multiple M20d consoles ...AND/OR your further development of extra "modular blocks" of twelve mic/line input channels (maybe addressable as extra "pages" on the M20d's GUI) would yield an absolute CATEGORY KILLER ! :wub:

A release sometime next week would be fine. (No pressure.)
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#5 antonioctd

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:53 AM

Well spotted, antonioctd !

(And your kind compliment is much appreciated.)

That sort of requirement can indeed require a pause for thought. (I've done it so often that the different "layouts" required for my diverse array of jobs are second nature to me, but may seem quite weird for anyone "looking over my shoulder".)

I usually handle a "large music" situation by allocating a "rhythm section" console which generally has its principal outputs fed into the "main" console as a stereo pair. That'll allow the bass, drum kit, percussion and (very often, but not always) keyboards easy access to a common "aux" or "monitor" feed.

The "trick" is to then "burn" just one or two additional input channels of that "rhythm section sub mixer" with a "front line" or separate "front line and vocal" buss (aux, group or "matrix") output/s from the "main" mixer, ...just to provide pre-fade individual monitoring for those rhythm players, ...with those "monitoring only" faders kept closed and preferably being those that are the hardest to access physically.

The "front line" (or "non-rhythm-section") performers then usually only require the "main" console to have similarly few "wasted" channels for their monitors to have access to a full "rhythm section" mix, or separate "rhythm and keys" mixes or whatever combination best suits the job. (Pretty much a "mirror image" cross-connection.)

For "presentation plus music" events, I'll mostly just bring the "music" console in as a "pre-packaged" stereo pair to the "spoken word plus A/V" console, often with each having its own operator.

I hope that gives you a better idea of the "divide and conquer" approach I posted earlier, however...

LINE 6's "GENIUS DEPT." - TAKE NOTE:

From almost the start of this Millennium, (and in common with our regular collaborators in the Sydney Opera House) our twelve TV OB Vans (Remote Trucks) and a few of our larger TV studios have relied (and continue to rely) on the mind-boggling flexibility and sonic excellence of the ethernet (EuCon) interconnected, distributed intelligence granted by our considerable inventory of the Euphonix (now Avid) System 5 http://www.avid.com/...s/avid-system-5.

You'll notice that there's no pricing structure attached to the above-linked information.

I reckon the (very good) reason for that might just be that my rough calculation reveals that a System 5 configured to "kinda-sorta" M20d spec would cost about fifty times (that's right 50 x) as much ! (Without having anything remotely like the StageScape touch-screen GUI...) :wacko:

So, Genius Dept., you're doing pretty darned well so far.

But how about this... (?)

The M20d's fabulous "AES-like" L6 Link system already allows for the intuitive automated "mapping" and remote control of L3 monitoring systems ...and presumably, other systems still in development.

Now, a (possibly huge) re-jig to allow the "carry through cascading" of multiple M20d consoles ...AND/OR your further development of extra "modular blocks" of twelve mic/line input channels (maybe addressable as extra "pages" on the M20d's GUI) would yield an absolute CATEGORY KILLER ! :wub:

A release sometime next week would be fine. (No pressure.)

 

Thanks! Understood

 

About the request to Line6, A release yesterday would be nice :rolleyes:  


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#6 pierrebriend

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:12 AM

Thank you RonMarton for your well documented reply. then I understand that It is not stupid at all to consider buying a second M20d even if it not "clusterised" by LINE6LINK, waiting for a LINE6 update/upgrade of their mixer

The remote control should require two iPad and two wifi UISB stick to have the total and immediate access to all the inputs/outputs.


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