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Mastering A Recording With M20d

mastering playback recording

Best Answer ArneLine6 , 07 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

We are very happy to hear about all these great ideas and we do monitor the forums. It is actually most important for us to get customer feedback for future products.

Thanks very much to all of you and keep them coming!

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#1 sax42

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:11 AM

Can i get an answer for my last Entry on http://line6.com/sup.../message/485199

-----------
is there a view for near feature (firmware):


a) laugh.gif "ReRecord": Playback selected Recorded channels while replacing the MainOut.wav or creating a MainOutMaster.wav?
[This would mean, i can Master a Wav without handling on a Computer at all - after GIG!!!]


- or -

B) happy.gif "Mastering-Mode": Playback selected Recorded channels while streaming two MainOut channels through USB to my computer for recording purposes?

- or -

c) cry.gif i have to buy expensive studio software "hall" and "compressors" for my computer orientated mastering?
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#2 antonioctd

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:09 AM

This has been requested several times. It is a very good and useful idea!


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#3 dboomer

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:03 AM

It may be "possible" but wouldn't expect it as it is not practical. StageScape was never intended to be a mastering DAW but rather to capture your live performance to transfer to a real DAW



#4 antonioctd

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:27 AM

It may be "possible" but wouldn't expect it as it is not practical. StageScape was never intended to be a mastering DAW but rather to capture your live performance to transfer to a real DAW

 

Yah. I can understand that.

 

Is there a way, that I'm not seeing, to record the master to the PC without going through D/A A/D?


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#5 sax42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:38 AM

the "only little need" (should be possible without intending to be a mastering daw) is to get the master stereo out through usb for digital recording.

There are so perfect (nearly Studio qualitiy) components in m20d, which we can hear but not able to capture digital!
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#6 RonMarton

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:27 AM

G'day antonioctd and raphaeldreifuss...

 

Having thought about this for a while now, my feeling is that any marked degradation perceived at your DAWs from the M20d's analog outputs is far more likely to be due to deficiencies in whatever A/D conversion's employed at the "downstream" device, as the actual analog signal from the console's XLM connectors sounds superb.

 

Not only to my old ears, but also to those of far younger colleagues...

 

...and as the man with the perfect initials for audio (dB) says, "StageScape was never intended to be a mastering DAW..." (My underlining.)

 

Given all that and the relatively low price of the M20d, (along with the ease of transporting an SD card for whenever you need the fully digital import of multiple tracks into your DAWs for later work) I would have thought that an extra (roughly) $200 USD spent on a high quality compact A/D (such as Line 6's POD Studio UX2 http://line6.com/podstudioux2/ ) should not only do what you're after, but give you even more options, both live and "in the studio".

 

Believe me when I say that I do understand that it involves yet another $200 and that money is tight, but your overall package really will end up doing so much more than many systems out there that not only have far larger footprints, but also far higher prices.

 

Now to this query, which is one that's waited all this time from an earlier thread:

 

(Do I) "... have to buy expensive studio software "hall" and "compressors" for my computer orientated mastering?"

 

I can't see why you would, unless the death threats from the guys selling them are starting to get you down.

 

Seriously though, take the time to not only view the online dynamics and effects tutorials for your DAW systems, but also to "play" with those that are included.

 

I cannot imagine that you

  1. Would not be able to configure your "bundled" dynamics for a stereo "brick wall" limiter with simultaneous gentle compression such as is required for mastering ...and
  2. That you would need more reverbs and effects than those provided.   

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#7 sax42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:03 AM

Yes, i agree completely with you - that everything required is in there!!! :)


But - i'am not sure, that the endup-Quality of my new "cd-Master" is the same as it could be, saving the rendered Master-Stream directly and whitout any lost through another D/A->A/D Conversion.

 

btw, i'am using an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro as an Audio Interface on my Computer, so i will try it...



 


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#8 litesnsirens

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:28 AM

So the issue here is that the mix that you had for the live front of house sound at the time of the event, may not translate as well for a recording.  Which is understandable do to room anomalies etc.  So you want to still use the M20d and most of the same settings to stay as true as you can to the original performance but just tweak it a bit so that it's more suitable as a final recorded product.

 

I know that you have visited the other thread regarding asking for the M20d to be offered as a VST. I still think that would be a great idea for the above reasons, which I somewhat voiced in the other thread.  But it's not likely to happen.

 

I haven't tried this so maybe it's not possible, but does the master bus of the M20d not show up in a DAW as an input source when connected via USB.  I think if there was a way to make that happen it would be the simplest solution.  That way you are still using the M20d horsepower and effects and you can stay in the digital domain. 

 

Has anyone tested this?  My guess is that you have as it is a little obvious, but at the risk of sounding stupid I'm throwing it out there anyway.


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#9 sax42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:48 AM

So the issue here is that the mix that you had for the live front of house sound at the time of the event, may not translate as well for a recording.  Which is understandable do to room anomalies etc.  So you want to still use the M20d and most of the same settings to stay as true as you can to the original performance but just tweak it a bit so that it's more suitable as a final recorded product 

 

sure, in live situation in small room's (up to 150 persons) - the Effects used for Live-PA are completely room dependent and much Sound is direct accustic unplugged, where the output Levels are low or Off. For a recording Situation, compressors and Output-Levels have to be adjusted for "All" Inputs! so the MainOut-Mix is mostly (always) unuseable!.

 

I know that you have visited the other thread regarding asking for the M20d to be offered as a VST. I still think that would be a great idea for the above reasons, which I somewhat voiced in the other thread.  But it's not likely to happen.

 

i don't think, that the "MayBeAvaiable" Software-VST's will do the same work on different Computers. And why i should do so - if it is in m20d with only another ie. "Scene-Setting"? It's waste of time, we don't have. 

 

I haven't tried this so maybe it's not possible, but does the master bus of the M20d not show up in a DAW as an input source when connected via USB.  I think if there was a way to make that happen it would be the simplest solution.  That way you are still using the M20d horsepower and effects and you can stay in the digital domain. 

 

No, this is not possible - the USB-Connection is deactivated, if playing back the recorded channels for rerendering. 


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#10 RonMarton

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

Referring back to this query:

 

But - i am not sure that the final quality of my new "cd master" is as good as it could be, compared with saving the rendered master-stream directly and without any loss through another D/A->A/D Conversion.

 

btw, i'am using an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro as an Audio Interface on my Computer, so i will try it...



 

 

Your M-Audio Fast Track Pro is the only "extra" A/D, from the M20d's XLM analog outputs to your USB input.

 

I honestly think that anyone who says they can definitely hear a difference between your live recording when fully digitally rendered as against hearing it after having passed "the extra step" through your Fast Track Pro is probably fooling themselves.

 

It has been my experience that the live environment almost always guarantees the pick-up of too many "masking" sounds for such subtle differences to be noticeable.   


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#11 litesnsirens

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:22 AM

Got it, so maybe the firmware update we need is to be able to have the USB active during playback.  It seems in various different ways users are asking for the same thing.  Personally, I don't have a problem mixing through an interface into a DAW.  It's really not that much of an inconvenience and it's not going to degrade the sound to a noticeable level.  IF Line 6 can offer some sort of solution through a firmware update, great!! But it will just be another amazing feature to an already unparalleled feature set.

 

Only a few months ago I owned the PreSonus 16.0.2 mixer.  Even if I had the top of the line mixer that just came out, I would still have to drag a Laptop to the gig and record dry channels into either their Capture software or a DAW.  Then add all new effects processing to mix it down.  And that is touted as a feature... and guess what.. it is!!!  The M20d just offers more.


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#12 RonMarton

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:34 AM

Got it, so maybe the firmware update we need is to be able to have the USB active during playback.  

 

That seems to me by far the most elegant solution, O Esteemed Master Of The Brightness And Loudness...

 

It sounds simple enough, but the changing of system architecture to achieve this (if it's at all possible) may cause some (additional) headaches in the Line 6 Laboratories. 


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#13 sax42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

Your M-Audio Fast Track Pro is the only "extra" A/D, from the M20d's XLM analog outputs to your USB input. 


Not right! (From my point of view)

There is a d/a from the encoders to the Master out Insight m20d, which should not be used - if only streaming out the original Bits. Remember, we use a digital mixer :)

So: d/a -> a/d
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#14 RonMarton

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:59 PM

...Hence my highlighting of the word "extra"!  :lol:

 

This is the main point

I honestly think that anyone who says they can definitely hear a difference between your live recording when fully digitally rendered as against hearing it after having passed "the extra step" through your Fast Track Pro is probably fooling themselves.

 

It has been my experience that the live environment almost always guarantees the pick-up of too many "masking" sounds for such subtle differences to be noticeable.   


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#15 sax42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:03 PM

Yes. The "only extra a/d", but u forgot the "extra" d/a Insight :)

Yes, you should be right. In Order to keep it simple, "without my fasttrack" and "without my Computer" and "without additional Software" and "without additional setup Time" - It will be Great to Save it an the sd pfluged in m20d - to have the First Really small "all in One" box mixer of the world in the Hotel After Gig :)

I think, (the Developer will say yes or no) - that it should be makeable without any additional Problems, because it's a post process without audience! :)
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#16 RonMarton

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:37 PM

Yes. The "only extra a/d", but u forgot the "extra" d/a Inside  :)

 

Eine falsche Übersetzung, denke ich, Raphael !

 

Ich habe es nie vergessen...  :D  (Von hier schreibe mir auf Englisch.)

 

Meiner Meinung nach... (Sorry, I will start again.) In my opinion, your multi-track post-production will be great fun and (eventually) very successful.

 

You may also find that hearing each sound separately (and hearing those sounds later, when it is much more peaceful) will also help you in ways that you cannot imagine now. (With things like mic positions, the layout of the band on stage and harmonies, for example.)

 

By the way, congratulations on the way you have explained and helped many others in English.

 

All of us respect how difficult it is to work in a foreign language while you are thinking in your own.


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#17 sax42

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:20 AM

Yes, it would be much easier in german - so, please appologize my terrible english.


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#18 RonMarton

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:00 AM

Your English writing is far better than many who were born in England, Raphael.

 

It is also wonderful that you help many others by taking so much time and working so hard to post things here.

 

Keep doing the great work ! 


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#19 sax42

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:11 AM

Thx Ron!
 

It may be "possible" but wouldn't expect it as it is not practical. StageScape was never intended to be a mastering DAW but rather to capture your live performance to transfer to a real DAW

 

but just to stay on the way - last question to dboomer - he was lost in our far out discussion :)
may you can reread this thread, to forward one of these ideas for making the product much more greater than it is already - with so little steps.

 


 


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#20 ArneLine6

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:54 AM   Best Answer

We are very happy to hear about all these great ideas and we do monitor the forums. It is actually most important for us to get customer feedback for future products.

Thanks very much to all of you and keep them coming!


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