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#1 Tboneous

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:04 AM

I read somewhere on this forum that when you link an L series speaker to your DT amp you can not only route your acoustic models to the L speaker but you can also route pre models to the DT and full models to the L. That last one is confusing to me. To my ears the the DT sounds best in "combo front" and the L series sounds better using "Studio/direct" since this is a global setting how can can dual tones be used that way?

How is it that acoustic tones can be used on the L when the HD is set to combo front and they sound better on "studio/direct?
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#2 jandrio

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:08 AM

output mode affects cab/mic simulation.

setting 2 "studio/direct" u get excellent acoustics/full models WITH cab/mic from Lspeaker 'n u shld only feed the hd500  pre/no cab/mic 2 the dt amp+cab.

just guessing, since i do not own a dt...


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#3 Tboneous

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:17 PM

output mode affects cab/mic simulation.
setting 2 "studio/direct" u get excellent acoustics/full models WITH cab/mic from Lspeaker 'n u shld only feed the hd500  pre/no cab/mic 2 the dt amp+cab.
just guessing, since i do not own a dt...

I...well...um...er...What?
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#4 ColonelForbin

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

I suppose that could be referring to configuring the DT / Link send to use the amp model only, though I don't know what happens when you are in studio/direct mode. As much as I know, and there are many gaps in my understanding of the Link/L2/L3/DT/HD500 connections and such; the amp model is chosen at the HD500 level, and if you use a full amp model, you are emulating power amp vs using a "pre" version of an amp model, where you are only modeling the preamp portion. Regarding studio direct and combo/poweramp, I am not sure what happens if you are in 'studio direct', but assign the DT Link as not being the main left or right, but instead choosing the amp model. Something like this from the manual:

 

Choose the output of one or two specific POD HD Amp Models -
Amp Model A
,
Amp Model B
, or both
Amp Model A/B
 
Choose Mute to silence any connected DT amp/StageSource speaker. This is handy, for example, if you are L6 LINK-connected to both a DT amp and StageSource speaker.* You can save some POD HD Presets with the StageSource set to “Mute” to allow an electric guitar tone to be heard through DT amp only - and other Presets with the DT amp set to “Mute” for an acoustic tone to be heard from the StageSource speaker only. Even better, if you use a Line 6 Variax guitar, these electric & acoustic guitar settings can be saved with your POD HD Preset as well!
 

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#5 Tboneous

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:41 PM

I suppose that could be referring to configuring the DT / Link send to use the amp model only, though I don't know what happens when you are in studio/direct mode. As much as I know, and there are many gaps in my understanding of the Link/L2/L3/DT/HD500 connections and such; the amp model is chosen at the HD500 level, and if you use a full amp model, you are emulating power amp vs using a "pre" version of an amp model, where you are only modeling the preamp portion. Regarding studio direct and combo/poweramp, I am not sure what happens if you are in 'studio direct', but assign the DT Link as not being the main left or right, but instead choosing the amp model. Something like this from the manual:
 
Choose the output of one or two specific POD HD Amp Models -
Amp Model A
,
Amp Model B
, or both
Amp Model A/B
 

Choose Mute to silence any connected DT amp/StageSource speaker. This is handy, for example, if you are L6 LINK-connected to both a DT amp and StageSource speaker.* You can save some POD HD Presets with the StageSource set to “Mute” to allow an electric guitar tone to be heard through DT amp only - and other Presets with the DT amp set to “Mute” for an acoustic tone to be heard from the StageSource speaker only. Even better, if you use a Line 6 Variax guitar, these electric & acoustic guitar settings can be saved with your POD HD Preset as well!

Better! My understanding is more basic than that. This is what I know...Studio/Direct is best used for head phones direct recording to DAW's and PA Speakers. Combo front is for plugging the HD into the front of an amp and stack is for the fx loop of an amp. So for example if I am using L6 link and combo/front output ( which I believe Line 6 recommends) it is not possible to effectively use full models through the L series speaker because the output selection is not on a preset basis but is a global setting. Studio/ direct sounds crappy through my DT and combo front sounds crappy through the L series but I can only choose one.

What am I missing?

Does that make sense?
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#6 jandrio

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:10 AM

... Studio/ direct sounds crappy through my DT...

 

is sounds crappy even if u use preamp only with no cab/mic?


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#7 Tboneous

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 01:43 PM

is sounds crappy even if u use preamp only with no cab/mic?

I'll give that a listen. So basically I should use studio direct as the output setting in this case. Just turn off cab and mic and use pre models for the DT and use full model for the L.
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#8 wicker_man

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

As soon as you hook up a DT amp via L6 link, the POD switches out of studio/direct output mode. The output mode is a global setting so affects all amp models.  If you have a stagesource speaker attached to the L6 link chain, it's best to set the speaker mode to Electric Guitar and have the POD output mode set to combo or stack.

 

Say you have a pre model on Amp A and a full model on Amp B, on page 9/10 of setup you can choose to direct Amp A to the DT and Amp B to the stagesource.  It works well and sounds great!  The only issue I have found is that if you then want to switch to a patch that is optimised for acoustic on Amp B, the stagesource does not change speaker model to Acoustic guitar, even if the patch was saved with the acoustic speaker mode set.


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#9 Tboneous

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

As soon as you hook up a DT amp via L6 link, the POD switches out of studio/direct output mode. The output mode is a global setting so affects all amp models.  If you have a stagesource speaker attached to the L6 link chain, it's best to set the speaker mode to Electric Guitar and have the POD output mode set to combo or stack.

This is what I have….JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M.

 

What output is recommended?


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#10 jandrio

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:38 AM

...If you have a stagesource speaker attached to the L6 link chain, it's best to set the speaker mode to Electric Guitar and have the POD output mode set to combo or stack....

 

have u tried setting mode=studio direct?

 

2nd q:

does the "connection topology"  have any effect?

i meand instead of using the "JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M" topology, if u connect "JTV-->HD-->L2M-->DT,  does it sound any different?


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#11 wicker_man

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

This is what I have….JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M.

 

What output is recommended?

 

My HD Pro defaults to Stack Pwr Amp with that configuration, which sounds fine to my ears.  I think the HD500 might default to Combo though...not sure.


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#12 wicker_man

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

have u tried setting mode=studio direct?

 

2nd q:

does the "connection topology"  have any effect?

i meand instead of using the "JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M" topology, if u connect "JTV-->HD-->L2M-->DT,  does it sound any different?

 

I have tried using Studio Direct, but with the DT amp it defaults to Stack Pwr Amp (with my HD Pro) and sounds better, for me at least.

 

The best configuration is JTV > HD  > DT > L2M.  If you put the stagesource before the DT amp in the L6 link chain, the DT topology settings stored in your POD patches aren't passed through (presumably for the same reasons that the stagesource speaker mode isn't passed through the DT when you have it in the other configuration).


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#13 jandrio

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:24 AM

i c.

so it seems that with current f/w capabilities one has 2 compromise with output mode settings...


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#14 wicker_man

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:00 AM

Well not really a compromise with the output settings, because with the L in Electric Guitar mode it is voiced like the power amp stage of a guitar amp, so it works best with Stack/Poweramp.  For me, the compromise is that the L speaker mode doesn't change to Acoustic guitar when I change the patch on my POD, so I can't use both DT and L for dual amp electric on one patch and then mute the DT and use just the L for acoustic on another patch.  This is because the L-series speaker mode won't change so has to be manually set to either electric guitar or acoustic guitar.


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#15 radatats

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 06:05 AM

this is probably the ONE thing that has kept me from getting a L2t.  Actually I have been on the fence for a long time now but I am seriously considering selling the DT and going straight FRFR just to finally get rid of all the various configuration issues. Very agravating...


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#16 wicker_man

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

Yeah,I know where you're coming from radatats. I have a similar dilemma about whether to sell my DT25 and cab, and just keep the L3t. I think the only way I might consider it is by getting another L3 for proper dual amp use or PA duties. There is just something special about the DT that is stopping me!
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#17 jandrio

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:58 AM

wicker_man, can u play electric on the dt with the jtv mags 'n acoustic with the jtv model on the L-speaker SIMULTANEOUSLY ON THE SAME PATCH?


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#18 wicker_man

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:35 PM

wicker_man, can u play electric on the dt with the jtv mags 'n acoustic with the jtv model on the L-speaker SIMULTANEOUSLY ON THE SAME PATCH?

 

Should be able to.  See my patch in this thread.  I had the acoustic side (from the FX send) going to my studio monitors, but you can take the FX send and put it into the side input of your L2t and use the acoustic body modelling instead.  The patch uses a pan control pan between the acoustic and electric, but you can modify that to blend or remove it all together if you want acoustic and electric simultaneously all the time.

 

I've not looked at it yet, but the Sean Halley video at the end of the same thread looks interesting.  I suppose there's no reason you can't just achieve the same result by assigning Amps A and B to the DT and L2 respectively.


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#19 Tboneous

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:32 PM

wicker_man, can u play electric on the dt with the jtv mags 'n acoustic with the jtv model on the L-speaker SIMULTANEOUSLY ON THE SAME PATCH?

Yes. I've done it. It sounds great! Input source 1 set to Variax Mags, input source 2 set to acoustic model on the JTV. Use a dual amp tone on the HD and lock the controls. Throw in 2 volume pedals to control each amp and Bada bing, you're in!!
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#20 jandrio

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:58 PM

Yes. I've done it. It sounds great! Input source 1 set to Variax Mags, input source 2 set to acoustic model on the JTV. Use a dual amp tone on the HD and lock the controls. Throw in 2 volume pedals to control each amp and Bada bing, you're in!!

so finally, soundwise,there is no compromise at all.
u can hear electric (mags) from the dt and at the same time-concurrently-and-simultaneously u hear the acoustic from the L-speaker.
great info!
cld u pls specify:

  • output mode "Stack Pwr Amp"?
  • topology "JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M"?
  • L-speaker mode "ACOUSTIC GUITAR MODE"?

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#21 wicker_man

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:05 AM

Yes, that is correct.
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#22 Tboneous

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:02 AM

so finally, soundwise,there is no compromise at all.
u can hear electric (mags) from the dt and at the same time-concurrently-and-simultaneously u hear the acoustic from the L-speaker.
great info!
cld u pls specify:

  • output mode "Stack Pwr Amp"?
  • topology "JTV-->HD-->DT-->L2M"?
  • L-speaker mode "ACOUSTIC GUITAR MODE"?
output mode: studio direct. Make sure you use pre models for the DT and turn off cab simulation
Topology: Exactly what you said.
L Speaker mode: Acoustic

So far I only use this setup for acoustics and not full model electrics because the L speaker does not change modes. Once it is set, that's it! I'll be getting an L2T eventually and it will take the place of the acoustic work (the added eq will come in handy when tweaking my acoustic tone) and the L2M will handle my full model amp patches.

One thing I've learned about this setup: You might find that you need a reverb for your acoustic and reverbs are DSP heavy. So try to keep your patches simple.

Fun tricks: Put a rotory drum on the acoustic side and blend it in! Oooo La La!
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#23 jandrio

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:32 AM

great job Tboneous.  post #2 abv verified.

 

output mode affects cab/mic simulation.

setting 2 "studio/direct" u get excellent acoustics/full models WITH cab/mic from Lspeaker 'n u shld only feed the hd500  pre/no cab/mic 2 the dt amp+cab.

just guessing, since i do not own a dt...


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#24 wicker_man

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:55 AM

One thing I've learned about this setup: You might find that you need a reverb for your acoustic and reverbs are DSP heavy. So try to keep your patches simple.
 

 

Using the FX loop send approach (see my patch in post #18), you can feed the acoustic model into the side input of an L2t / L3t and take advantage of the acoustic body modelling (if you want) and the reverb, thereby saving some DSP.  Appreciate this is offset a bit by having to include an Fx loop block, but presumably that uses less DSP than a reverb block.


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