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M13 Capabilities

m13 4cm 4 cable method pedalboard multi effects

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#1 optimus_7

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:30 PM

Line 6-ers,  I need help.

 

Just want to know the capabilities of the M13 - as I'm thinking of replacing my HD500 with it.  I don't use ANY of the amp modelling on the HD500 - but I use the effects. I currently have to have 6 Scenes to cover 1 gig's-worth of effects.  (90's Cover band called Sounds Like Teen Spirit) - on any given gig I would use Fuzz, Distortion, Chorus, Phaser, Flanger, talk-box, delay, trem, leslie, compressor, whammy up 2 Octaves, Whammy Down 2 octaves, pitch up 5th, pitch down 3rd, wah, synth, Clean-boost - though I have an EP-101 for that now.  It's not impossible - but it is annoying to have to jump back and forth for songs.

 

It works, but It would be greate to get all effects into 2, or Ideally 1 "Scene". 

 

My questions:

 

ONE

Can I setup 12 effects on one scene - Drives in A, Mods in B, Delay/synth, etc. in C, and so-on.  and then be able to turn on any 4 effects at once? E.G. - for Nirvana songs - could have distortion, and chorus on (one in A, one in B - then for Rage songs - could have Flange, Pitch, Whammy, on (A, B, C)?

 

I guess the root of my question is - are you able to setup the M13 like a REAL pedal board - with the only limitation being that you can only have 4 effects on at the same time? (1 from each of ABCD columns)?

 

TWO

Does the M13 model input impedances of the individual pedals being modelled?  (Like the POD HD 500 does?)  Can I change this setting?  I couldn't find anything in the L6 documentation on the M13.  But the modelling of input impedances, While awesome, was a huge tone destroyer for the 4CM with my current Amp - so I had to set the global input impedance of all effects at the highest impedance (I think 3.5Mohms) to compensate.

 

THREE

Does the FX Loop take up one of the blocks on the M13 - or is it virtual...set it n' forget it? (I think I saw in the manual, that you can put it anywhere.)

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

Grunge on.

 


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#2 JTSC777

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:27 PM

One-yes 

 

Two-I believe it models the impedances but they are fixed and not adjustable

(no parameter for that).

I have had no problems using my M13 in 4 cable method with the following amps-

Marshall JCM800 combo(1982 w/effect loop mod)

Fender BDRI/HRDLX

Egnater Tweaker

and probably a couple of others.

The M13 can also sound pretty darn good just into the front of an amp if you set the effect levels right.

I will use it Friday night in a small club in front of a Crate V1512T that has no effect loop.

 

Three-The loop does not use up a block like it does in the HD500 etc...all you do is place it in the chain where you want it and that's it.

 

The M13 is very easy to use compared to the HD500( I have both) and I found it good enough to record almost an entire album with the band Follys Pool last year called "Out Of A Dream".We start another album in a couple of months and the producer has already asked me to use it again for the upcoming sessions.

 

I hope this response is helpful.

 

Good Luck with your M13 and Have Fun!


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#3 radatats

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:56 AM

optimus7

 

I don't understand the issue... the POD lets you use up to 8 FX simultaneously and 4 separate banks... how is that more difficult or not as effective as the M13?  what is it you are trying to do that the POD doesn't do?

 

JTSC777

 

how does the POD for FX only into the Crate work compared to the M13?  I have a Crate VFX5112 with the FX loop but it is really a PITA to hook up and get all the levels right...


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#4 optimus_7

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:07 AM

JTSC777,

 

Thanks man - much obliged.

 

Radatats - the POD can do 8 effects at once, it's true...KINDA.  - it can really only do 7 effects at once if you use the 4 Cable Method, because one of the effects has to be an FX Loop.  Also - what I'm hoping to do with the M13 is have 12 effects available at the push of a button...I rarely, if ever, have more than 3 effects on at once when I'm playing live.


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#5 radatats

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

Yeah I see what you mean but you can set up 4 different combinations of effects (banks) and cover a wide range of possibilities.  Good luck with the tapdancing remembering which FX is where on the board!  There is an interesting thread about magnetic labels for foot switches which would probably be a Godsend for that...

 

I posted in a thread a ways back about an alternate method for 4 cable that does not use the FX block, may be interesting reading...

 

http://line6.com/sup...ise/#entry43085


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#6 phil_m

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

1. As far as being able to turn all effects on or off at once, yes that is possible. I recommend using latch scene mode. It's kind of counter-intuitive for some people who want to be able to use the M13 as a pedalboard, but it ultimately gives you more flexibility, imo. When you're in latch scene mode, you can see the names of all your scenes and activate/change scenes immediately. Or if you want to bypass the entire scene, you just step on the switch for the scene that's currently active. If you want to get into to a scene to turn individual effects on or off, you just hit the "Scenes" switch, and you're inside the scene. To get back into the scene selection screen, you just hit the "Scenes" switch again.

 

2. The input impedance may be modeled in some way, but there's no variable Z parameter like there is on the HD500.

 

3. There is no FX loop block on the M13. You turn the effects loop on or off in the setup menu, and you choose where you want it in the signal chain in there as well. The on/off state of the effects loop and its position are saved with the scene. In other words, you can vary its position depending on what scene you're using.


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#7 mystic38

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:37 PM

M13 vs pod comments

 

1. yes

M13 scenes.. push button access to banks of 4 (+gate) effects

 

2. yes & no

M13 models input impedances of blocks. cannot be changed. if used in 4cm may need pedal buffer in fx loop

 

3. no,

fx loop can be off, post a, post b, post c.

 

also..

 

there is a global noise gate you can use in a pinch..

 

so..

 

unless you never want more than 4 fx, m13 is good

m13 can switch easily (scenes) between 12 different 4 fx setups

 

not sure all of this is worth selling hd500 and shelling out for m13, as you lose expression pedal, aux and mic in, headphone out etc.. if it was me, I would just have 3 or 4 presets in the hd500 and scroll between them, or combine 2 in one preset.


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#8 JTSC777

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

optimus7

 

I don't understand the issue... the POD lets you use up to 8 FX simultaneously and 4 separate banks... how is that more difficult or not as effective as the M13?  what is it you are trying to do that the POD doesn't do?

 

JTSC777

 

how does the POD for FX only into the Crate work compared to the M13?  I have a Crate VFX5112 with the FX loop but it is really a PITA to hook up and get all the levels right...

I have never used the HD500 into the the front of the Crate just the M13.So much debate about effect loops and I am an effects loop amp player but I remember using a lot of pedals into the front of my old Marshalls and Fenders that did not have an effect loop.Eric Johnsons old Marshalls and Fender Twins don't have loops and he uses a waterfall of delay and sometimes dist. and  chorus in the front of his amps.I think too that volume has something to do with this. At low volume into a PA an amp with no effect loop sounds weird with dist/chorus and delay pedals in front but turn that amp up really loud and it's a lot better.I will stick with loops myself as I don't play very loud anymore.


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#9 snakefinger13

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 07:29 AM

Yeah I see what you mean but you can set up 4 different combinations of effects (banks) and cover a wide range of possibilities.  Good luck with the tapdancing remembering which FX is where on the board!  There is an interesting thread about magnetic labels for foot switches which would probably be a Godsend for that...

 

I posted in a thread a ways back about an alternate method for 4 cable that does not use the FX block, may be interesting reading...

 

http://line6.com/sup...ise/#entry43085

It is very interesting reading and the easiest 4CM to implement I've run across. I've tested it with a small Peavey Minx 110 amp (35W), as well as a  MarkBass (300W) with 12" woofer and 1" tweeter, both with bass guitar. I'm really liking it so far. Next test will be GenzBenz Black Pearl 30 amp with electric guitar. Only hitch I've run across so far is when I downloaded radatats 4CM-4 patch (to use amp's pre-amp). When I first used it I had a very noticeable problem with hum/overload on the smaller amp, particularly on the post-effects "A" side. Eventually looked through patch and found that there were modelled amps with a Treadplate showing on "A" side. Not sure if this happened when I downloaded/opened patch through edit or some other reason. Once I removed amps from both sides it was fine. I'm using it with an HD500 and love not having to use the FX loop. This four cable method is definitely worth giving a try if you're interested in that setup. Thanks to radatats for a great idea!


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