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Was warble fixed in the HD firmware?


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#1 clay-man

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:46 PM

So, pitch shifting/alt tuning has obviously been changed from 1.9 to 2.0. Alt tuning up no longer sounds nasally, making capo simulation and 12 strings sound 10 times better.

 

One of the biggest problems I have with my Variax 600 is warble when pulling off above the 12th fret in an alternate tuning. Want an example?

 

 

So, is this fixed in the new firmware?

 


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#2 clay-man

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

Can I please get an answer? I don't know why noone can answer this, all you need to do is turn on an alt tuning and do a few pull offs above the 12th fret.


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#3 fr0sty

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

In my opinion, no, the warble hasn't been fixed.  


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#4 Dshow

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:03 AM

I also think it is still there but maybe not as strong as in the example


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#5 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:09 AM

this type of warble can be due to the pickups being too close to the strings... the magnets can cause vibrations...

if you have this issue try backing your pickups down some....

in any case... not looking for an argument...

just wanted to throw that information out there...

i for one don't have this issue... making it impossible for me to believe that it's an inherent variax problem...

maybe you do have the issue, and maybe you like your pickups where they are... and maybe that's something you'd have to deal with or maybe the variax isn't for you...

as i said.. not looking to argue and i know these types of threads would easily go into some sort of attack/defend thing...

so do what you want with this info...


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#6 clay-man

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:12 PM

this type of warble can be due to the pickups being too close to the strings... the magnets can cause vibrations...

if you have this issue try backing your pickups down some....

in any case... not looking for an argument...

just wanted to throw that information out there...

i for one don't have this issue... making it impossible for me to believe that it's an inherent variax problem...

maybe you do have the issue, and maybe you like your pickups where they are... and maybe that's something you'd have to deal with or maybe the variax isn't for you...

as i said.. not looking to argue and i know these types of threads would easily go into some sort of attack/defend thing...

so do what you want with this info...

 

It's my 600, ergo there is no mag pickups. The whole reason I'm asking if the JTV does this is to know what I'm getting when I upgrade to a JTV. That's why I wanted an answer so much.

 

There's a big gap between the old Variax and the HD firmware. They should have enough time to fix this pull off warble that I'm getting.

I've had people argue that it's not there, at least not like mine, and that's all I want. If it did warble still, then that's bad, but I'm sure I could work around it.

 

It's just, it's not good for solos, I do a lot of speed playing with hammer ons and pull offs so it'll show up.

It's just something I wanted to ask because I believe I have the right to know.

 

I love the Variax, I always will, but the whole point of this question is that maybe one day when I get a JTV I won't have to deal with this anymore, you know?


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#7 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

ahhh, well that's different, never had the issue with my 600 either... but i guess my mini rant only applies to the JTV's :D


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#8 psarkissian

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

There are a number of things that can contribute to warbling, RealZap mentioned

pick-up height. Yes, I see this often enough.

 

The sound sample is more indicative of string buzz (not warbling) from the string nut slots,

if there are burrs or wearing in the slots. Fret buzz can also contribute. Both kinds of buzz

can become part of the signal and end up being processed like the rest of it, hence this

distorted dual-tone effect from being Alt Tuned with the main signal.

 

Intonation can be off enough to where a dual-tone appears.

 

On a couple of occasions, an 89F turn out to have the piezo lines in the wrong sequence. 

An easy fix at the service center.

 

Typically, it's a matter of which string and how it manifests. It won't always be the same

every time, in every situation. It requires a service tech experienced with this product to

tease that out.

 

Is on all the strings or just a couple?

Every fret,... or just certain strings on certain frets?

 

Trying to do it yourself can leave you chasing your tail or chasing ghosts in the machine.

It's not our grandfather's arch-top Gibson anymore, with passive electronics. Need a service

tech (Line 6 authorized service) experienced with troubleshooting this product for that one.


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#9 clay-man

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

There are a number of things that can contribute to warbling, RealZap mentioned

pick-up height. Yes, I see this often enough.

 

The sound sample is more indicative of string buzz (not warbling) from the string nut slots,

if there are burrs or wearing in the slots. Fret buzz can also contribute. Both kinds of buzz

can become part of the signal and end up being processed like the rest of it, hence this

distorted dual-tone effect from being Alt Tuned with the main signal.

 

Intonation can be off enough to where a dual-tone appears.

 

On a couple of occasions, an 89F turn out to have the piezo lines in the wrong sequence. 

An easy fix at the service center.

 

Typically, it's a matter of which string and how it manifests. It won't always be the same

every time, in every situation. It requires a service tech experienced with this product to

tease that out.

 

Is on all the strings or just a couple?

Every fret,... or just certain strings on certain frets?

 

Trying to do it yourself can leave you chasing your tail or chasing ghosts in the machine.

It's not our grandfather's arch-top Gibson anymore, with passive electronics. Need a service

tech (Line 6 authorized service) experienced with troubleshooting this product for that one.

 

 

It happens on most frets above the 12th fret when on any alt tuning. Pulling off will result in a huge warble sound that sounds like a ringing noise than a note. The only way to get around this is to pick instead of do a pull off, or do the pull off in a certain way, like pulling off harder or softer than the previous note I picked.

 

I have my action a little low, and there is a bit of buzz, very minimal though and unhearable plugged in. I need this for barre chords and for "shredding". 

 

There is a time where if I don't upgrade to a JTV now, I think I'll send this into a service tech. Not right now though.


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#10 silverhead

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:14 PM

...

I have my action a little low, and there is a bit of buzz, very minimal though and unhearable plugged in. I need this for barre chords and for "shredding". 

 

...

ANY buzzing is enough to cause anomalies like warbling. The piezos in a Variax do not tolerate buzzing at all - especially in a JTV; buzzing will produce artifacts in the sound - virtually guaranteed.

 

Just to test, try raising your action to eliminate any buzzing and see if the warbling remains.


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#11 clay-man

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:04 PM

ANY buzzing is enough to cause anomalies like warbling. The piezos in a Variax do not tolerate buzzing at all - especially in a JTV; buzzing will produce artifacts in the sound - virtually guaranteed.

 

Just to test, try raising your action to eliminate any buzzing and see if the warbling remains.

 

Raised action for 0 buzz, still warble when doing pull offs.

 

Putting it back since it didn't help. Damn, now I have to set up the intonation a bit. Am I doing something wrong if it's not in a 3-3 slope like most saddles are?


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#12 psarkissian

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

Buzzing above the 12th fret, action low, a sign of relief is over-bowing a smidge,

that goes to how the set-up is.

 

Sounds like a set-up needs to be done from scratch first, then go from there.


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#13 clay-man

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:56 PM

I set up the neck relief as much I can in the past and it still buzzes on the high frets on low action.


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#14 psarkissian

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:11 AM

With neck relief, it takes about two days for the wood to settle into its position.

It's not like action or intonation, where the results are immediate.


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#15 wankieguitar

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:24 PM

I have a 300 and a 700 and the 'warble' described is intolerable when using lower tunings above the 12th fret.

It's especially noticeable with distortion. It happens all the time with pull-offs in lowered (artificial)  tunings.

e.G. tuning a preset one semi, 2 semis down etc.

You rarely even get the pitch you're pulling off to, You often get a semi lower than fretted.

To call it a warble is being kind.

 

I don't know how the 'experts' can't recreate this. And as described if you re-pick the lower note of the pull-off you get the proper pitch so it's not a fret rattle or buzz, somehow it's a flaw in the calculation of the pulled off note.

 

These guitar don't have magnetic pickups so why are we belabouring the position of the magnetic pickups?

 

This flaw is much improved on the Tyler Variax. For this reason the new Variax are much better. I'm still not liking the new Strat sounds or the ringing on the f# on the 4th fret of the 'D' string in the Jumbo acoustic.

 

Also the volume of the Variax sounds can't equal the magnetic pickups no matter how much they are boosted in software. Very disappointing.


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#16 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:31 PM

because the pickups are magnetic... the strings are metal... and uh.... physics.

 

from what i can see its an issue with a handful of guitars and not an issue with variaxes in general.

(yes i've owned older and newer ones... and have played every model... both Korean and USA)

 

 

 

These guitar don't have magnetic pickups so why are we belabouring the position of the magnetic pickups?


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#17 clay-man

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:07 PM

I have a 300 and a 700 and the 'warble' described is intolerable when using lower tunings above the 12th fret.

It's especially noticeable with distortion. It happens all the time with pull-offs in lowered (artificial)  tunings.

e.G. tuning a preset one semi, 2 semis down etc.

You rarely even get the pitch you're pulling off to, You often get a semi lower than fretted.

To call it a warble is being kind.

 

I don't know how the 'experts' can't recreate this. And as described if you re-pick the lower note of the pull-off you get the proper pitch so it's not a fret rattle or buzz, somehow it's a flaw in the calculation of the pulled off note.

 

These guitar don't have magnetic pickups so why are we belabouring the position of the magnetic pickups?

 

This flaw is much improved on the Tyler Variax. For this reason the new Variax are much better. I'm still not liking the new Strat sounds or the ringing on the f# on the 4th fret of the 'D' string in the Jumbo acoustic.

 

Also the volume of the Variax sounds can't equal the magnetic pickups no matter how much they are boosted in software. Very disappointing.

 

Glad to see someone understands what I'm going through. The old variaxes are awful with pull offs on alternate tunings so I have to adjust my playing a bit to compensate which sucks.

 

I still really really love the guitar, but this is yet another reason I want to upgrade to a JTV. I'll still love my 600, the look and feel, but the electronics are outdated and I'm a person who sees the newer features as a must, in fact I got the 600 more or less because I can't afford a JTV and to test it out. I knew I'd like it enough to get it without try-before-buying, but like I said, I mainly wanted the JTV originally, and I still do.


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