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Band has decided to tune down to Eb. Do I retune the JTV, or use the digital option?


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#1 Ibanez_cv

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:06 PM

I'm only using dropped D, so I can use the built-in detunings to get where I need to be. At the same time, I like the analog (real pickups) option, and have used them in many of my HD500 patches.

 

Has anybody just detuned the JTV  a half-step, and what was the result?


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#2 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:07 PM

If you are going to play that way all the time, I would detune rather than use alt tuning.  Alt tuning is always a compromise.


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#3 radatats

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

I think for a 59 detune is fine but a 69 with trem its not so easy.  I would use digital for a 69 just to not have to do a setup...


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#4 scotterp

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:59 AM

I have a 69 and we detune a half step. You may need to adjust the tension of the springs for the trem, but that's for your personal preference.
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#5 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:07 AM

Half step detune isn't any different than changing string gauge.  A trem adjustment should cover it.  Again, I would do this if I was going to always play in Eb.


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#6 pugdealer

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:42 AM

I'd detune...digital always has an effect of tone not to mention possible warbles


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#7 Leftzilla

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:43 AM

I am in a prog band that my keyboard player does most of the writing.  Every once in awhile he decides to change the original key of a song after I and the rest of the band have learned it.  In one instance, a song that relied on open chords was change down a full step.  To keep the open chords I used the down full step preset on the tuning knob and it sounded and worked very well.


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#8 rogue203

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:53 PM

I'd detune so that you can use the alt tunings when you need Drop D, etc.


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#9 clay-man

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

Tune to your most used tuning, then base your alternate tunings on that.

 

Dustin Kensrue tuned his Variax to D standard and had no problem. Thrice would play songs as low as B standard or Drop A, but it all sounded good still.


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#10 donnachatoo

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:18 AM

My band plays in Eb and I actually detuned my 59 down the half tone, however in my experience it does throw out the alt-tunings via the modelling as it is altering the tuning based on it expecting the guitar to be in E. So you may need to alter the tunings in the workbench.....not done it myself yet as other than dropped D (or dropped Db) I don't use any other tunings but will get round to doing it !


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#11 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 04:59 AM

The Alt tunings are all relative to the actual tuning so if you change the actual tuning, the alt tunings will be shifted.  If your actual tuning is out of tune, the alts will be out of tune.


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#12 mdmayfield

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:25 AM

My band plays in Eb and I actually detuned my 59 down the half tone, however in my experience it does throw out the alt-tunings via the modelling as it is altering the tuning based on it expecting the guitar to be in E. So you may need to alter the tunings in the workbench.....not done it myself yet as other than dropped D (or dropped Db) I don't use any other tunings but will get round to doing it !

 

 

The Alt tunings are all relative to the actual tuning so if you change the actual tuning, the alt tunings will be shifted.  If your actual tuning is out of tune, the alts will be out of tune.

 

Charlie_Watt, my experience agrees with yours - for example, physical standard tuning, going to Drop D digital tuning drop the low string to D, but physically tuned to Eb, digital Drop D actually drops to Db. I don't think the Variax modeling "knows" what you're physically tuned to - it should be all relative.

 

donnachatoo, are you referring maybe to *setting up* a custom alt tuning on the instrument (as opposed to setting it in Variax Workbench) and saving it in one of the tuning slots, by holding down the knob then playing the notes relative to the 12th fret? Because that would make sense. I think that's the only time the Variax modling ever actually "listens" to the notes you're playing, so it probably assumes you're in standard tuning.


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#13 Rewolf48

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:49 AM

" I think that's the only time the Variax modelling ever actually "listens" to the notes you're playing, so it probably assumes you're in standard tuning."

 

It does - you just have to adjust for the altered tuning, so if physically tuned to Eb you need to set Virtual Capo using the 13th fret as the base rather than the 12th


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#14 FrozenOzone

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:01 AM

I have been down tuning my variax to Eb since I got it.  I have never had to move the capo or do much other than have to set my guitar up again. I think Charlie_Watt is correct in his logic.


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#15 johnnyayyy

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:47 AM

 

Dustin Kensrue tuned his Variax to D standard and had no problem.

 

I have always tuned my Variax transplants to D standard and never had any problems. My JTV on the other hand does not like to be tuned to D standard and makes funny out of tune notes on some of the models, the 12 string acoustics and the 12 string Rickenbacker are the ones I had problems with but there might be more.

 

A support ticket was created by another user here with the same problem and the results were:

 

"they've updated their faq's webpage to include that tuning must be in E Standard to work.  They told me that that is how the guitar is calibrated and it's not tested beyond that. "

 

My JTV works properly when tuned down to Eb, and most models are okay when tuned down to D - but when tuned to D the 12 strings are mostly unusable, unless you are playing in a Japanese noise band or something.


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#16 dbagchee

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:33 PM

I tune mine down to Drop Db and adjusted the intonation for it. Then I went through all of the knob presets and adjusted them so that the selected label will be in the tuning matching the label. Works pretty well and I'm able to use the mags for most songs for my band.

 

I think Line 6 doesn't support tuning down because it changes the pressure on the piezo pickups a bit. That said, if you change string gauge accordingly then it might account for that and work the same.


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#17 paulsteinway

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:55 AM

Keep in mind that when you retune digitally it can affect sustain. Normally the sound from the amp will cause the string to resonate at the same note symapthetically. When you retune digitally, the pitch coming from the amp is different frm the pitch of the strings so you won't get the same sustain (or any feedback).


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#18 clay-man

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:17 AM

Keep in mind that when you retune digitally it can affect sustain. Normally the sound from the amp will cause the string to resonate at the same note symapthetically. When you retune digitally, the pitch coming from the amp is different frm the pitch of the strings so you won't get the same sustain (or any feedback).

 

You'll still get feedback from resonance sympathy. It will still vibrate your strings regardless of what pitch they are.


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#19 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

Feedback is GREATLY reduced during alternate tunings because as paulsteinway says the pitch from the amp does not match the pitch of the strings.  Resonances are enhanced when they are excited at their resonant frequency.  String's fundamental resonant  frequency is not the same as what the DSP is generating during alternate tunings.  This is a real disadvantage of alternate tunings done by DSP.


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#20 bobwilken

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:55 AM

 so if I am interpreting this thread correctly ...turning down a full step to D Will generally function properly..

but might be whacked out on  some alternate tunings and various settings..

especially susceptible are those involving 12 strings.

 

I am also getting the impression that whatever mischief might be caused by turning down to D

can be  corrected with the editing software.

 

have I got it right ?


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#21 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

Alternate tunings will be relative to the actual string tunings period.


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#22 jcerrero

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:36 AM

I don't have enough experience with variax models. I recently bought a JTV-59 but I'm still trying to discover models and tunings. Something getting me crazy is the fact that everytime I use the alternative tuning 1/2 step down (Eb), the sound of the guitar gets octaved, as it was in the 12 strings model but it's not!! Does somebody have something to share about it?


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#23 cruisinon2

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 01:12 PM

I don't have enough experience with variax models. I recently bought a JTV-59 but I'm still trying to discover models and tunings. Something getting me crazy is the fact that everytime I use the alternative tuning 1/2 step down (Eb), the sound of the guitar gets octaved, as it was in the 12 strings model but it's not!! Does somebody have something to share about it?


Thats a new one...numerous complaints about the alt tunings...'ghost notes', 'warbling', lack of sustain, etc...but never seen anyone say that an alt tuning produced octave harmonies.
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#24 clay-man

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

Thats a new one...numerous complaints about the alt tunings...'ghost notes', 'warbling', lack of sustain, etc...but never seen anyone say that an alt tuning produced octave harmonies.

 

Looks like someone forgot they're on a 12 string model haha


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#25 jakeman19

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:12 PM

I've been tuned down to Eb also since I got my JTV-69s and other than having to adjust the tremolo springs I have not had a problem. I've been so use to having my guitar a step down over the years I just had to tune this one down even though I could do it with the JTV's virtual capo. My 2 cents.
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#26 donnachatoo

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:07 AM

donnachatoo, are you referring maybe to *setting up* a custom alt tuning on the instrument (as opposed to setting it in Variax Workbench) and saving it in one of the tuning slots, by holding down the knob then playing the notes relative to the 12th fret? Because that would make sense. I think that's the only time the Variax modling ever actually "listens" to the notes you're playing, so it probably assumes you're in standard tuning.

Apologies for the late reply, what I meant was actually going into the Workbench and adjusting all the tunings there, but the Virtual Capo version would work I guess....not done either myself, but keep meaning to !!! I'm still happy using the mags to be honest with the occasional dropped D which seems to sound fine !


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#27 jcerrero

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:54 AM

Thats a new one...numerous complaints about the alt tunings...'ghost notes', 'warbling', lack of sustain, etc...but never seen anyone say that an alt tuning produced octave harmonies.

I found what the problem was. This effect only appears when I´m using the Guitar Rig interface for recording. I've tested pluging the guitar direct to the ampli and it's Ok. I don't know why indeed but it's probably related to digital issues.


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