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JTV59 JTV69 v2.1 SEMI-5 Comparison

jtv59 jtv69 semi bank pos 5 fw 2.1 compare

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#1 edstar1960

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:53 AM

So does a variax guitar model sound exactly the same on a different model JTV - have a listen and decide for yourself.

 

JTV59 and JTV69 both at fw 2.1 as supplied (not tweaked in Workbench HD) and using SEMI position 5.

Both played via VDI into same HD500 patch and recorded in Sonar X3 without any post production.

Same chord sequence.

 

Are these samples identical? If not - what differences can be heard? 

And can you tell which sample is the JTV59 and which is the JTV69?

 

Recording can be found here:  https://soundcloud.c...69-semi-compare


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#2 fr0sty

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 01:29 PM

I assume the 69 is the second?  In any case, it sounds a hair brighter to me than the first one.  


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#3 snhirsch

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 03:49 PM

I'm thinking the first one is the 69.  There's something about the longer scale that prevents my ear from "buying" emulation of a shorter-scale instrument.  But, I may have just disproved this theory :-)


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Antares ATG-1 Autotune Pedal

Fender Mustang III.v2 Modeling Amp

 


#4 edstar1960

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:34 AM

It's interesting that others can indeed hear a slight difference.  I will reveal the correct order once a few more people have had a listen ...


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#5 malnack

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:50 AM

I have a 59P. I believe the first clip is the 59.


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#6 DarrellM5

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:22 AM

Sound identical to me.


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#7 rmwpsych

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:30 PM

First sample sounds warmer, slightly rounder (I prefer it). Second one is brighter less "round". My guess:

 

clip 1 is the JTV59 

clip 2 JTV 69


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#8 clay-man

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:28 PM

Pretty identical to me. Not enough difference for me to care at all, and that's what I like. I'd want their modeling guitars to sound the same between eachother, else that means the modeling is off on one of them.


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#9 edstar1960

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:45 AM

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

Some people are hearing what I heard and what prompted me to post the clips. When recorded directly like this they sound almost identical, in fact the recordings are so close that a casual listen through PC speakers at normal to low volume or even on headphones at low volume, you probably won't notice any difference.  Certainly if they were in a band mix you would not spot any difference. When I played them via L6 link through my L2M there was a difference but I did wonder because I was playing a physically different guitar that maybe my brain was just telling me they must sound different which is why I decided to try a blind test to see if there was anything noticeable that everyone else could pick up on.

 

I may attempt to record that L2m sound to see if the difference is still more noticeable once recorded.

 

Meanwhile, I will let this thread run a little longer so some more members can comment before I reveal which order the guitars were played on the sample.

 

Thanks again.


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#10 Rewolf48

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:59 AM

JTV modelling is based around processing the pickup signal using techniques like convolution (e.g. to model body resonance).  

 

But you still have that original signal driving it, and while the Piezo pickups while positioned to get the most isolated signal from the strings possible will inevitably still get something of the body and bridge that will leak through to the final signal.

 

That apparently is why Line 6 do not sell Variax Guts as a kit - because the variation on the inputs would give so much variation in the modelled output and then they would have to support all of the "my custom G9201 Variax doesn't sound like a Strat!!!" complaints (Gretch Resonator).


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#11 edstar1960

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 04:35 AM

Rewolf48 - I thought they would sound different based on the fact that they are physically very different guitars, however, I thought the differences would be so subtle that I would not be able to tell, and I think in a band mix or in a recording mix that is the case.  I found it interesting that I could tell there was a difference and just wanted to re-assure myself that I wasn't imagining it by running a blind test on the forum just to see whether other people could hear the same differences.


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#12 Leftzilla

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:47 AM

There are subtle differences in how modeling on guitar sounds different than another model.  I have a JTV59 and a 89F and I my band swears that the 89F sound "better" than the 59.  However I think that is shape BIAS because when I recorded both guitars doing the same thing the opinions were split.  I notice some subtle differences that are definitely due to the different body's and necks but they are just that Subtle.  Also there are different piezos between the two


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#13 clay-man

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:18 AM

JTV modelling is based around processing the pickup signal using techniques like convolution (e.g. to model body resonance).  

 

But you still have that original signal driving it, and while the Piezo pickups while positioned to get the most isolated signal from the strings possible will inevitably still get something of the body and bridge that will leak through to the final signal.

 

That apparently is why Line 6 do not sell Variax Guts as a kit - because the variation on the inputs would give so much variation in the modelled output and then they would have to support all of the "my custom G9201 Variax doesn't sound like a Strat!!!" complaints (Gretch Resonator).

 

I'm not sure how they isolated getting the convolutions between each part of the guitar (bodies, pickups, electronics) but I'm sure it's very accurate.

 

I've heard Line 6 calibrates each model so they sound identical to one another in modeling. 


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#14 edstar1960

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 12:34 AM

I'm thinking the first one is the 69.  There's something about the longer scale that prevents my ear from "buying" emulation of a shorter-scale instrument.  But, I may have just disproved this theory :-)

 

Correct!  The first clip is the JTV69 and the second is the JTV59.   Well done! I think you were the only one who gave the correct order,


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#15 edstar1960

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 12:36 AM

First sample sounds warmer, slightly rounder (I prefer it). Second one is brighter less "round". My guess:

 

clip 1 is the JTV59 

clip 2 JTV 69

 

These are my thoughts too in terms of how I think they sound, however, it is in fact the JTV69 first and the JTV59 second.    I think it's the maple cap on the JTV59 that adds that extra brightness - although before the comparison I thought that the JTV69 would sound slightly brighter based on it's physical characteristics.


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#16 radatats

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 03:33 AM

at first i though I heard slight differences but after extensive bouncing back and forth between the two clips they are pretty much identical.  Any slight differences are probably due to ever so slight playing differences and the subconcious desire to notice something, anything different just knowing they came from two different guitars...

 

for me anyways...


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Quit complaining and DO something or help somebody with their issues...


#17 jandrio

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:01 AM

I think it's the maple cap on the JTV59 that adds that extra brightness...

i thought maple fingerboard was only fitted on the 69sss black (?)

quoting from 59 specs:

Neck: Set mahogany neck with rosewood fingerboard and dot inlays (Tyler '59 neck shape)


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#18 snhirsch

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:04 AM

To my ears, there's a hint of Strat-like "nasal-ness" to the first sample.  I was reasonably sure the first clip was a 69 before I even heard the second one.  I've always attributed this to the longer scale length. 


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990)

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Fender / Roland GC-1 Guitar

Boss GP-10 13-pin Processor

Antares ATG-1 Autotune Pedal

Fender Mustang III.v2 Modeling Amp

 


#19 edstar1960

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:44 AM

i thought maple fingerboard was only fitted on the 69sss black (?)

quoting from 59 specs:

 

Hi jandrio - by maple cap I am referring to the flamed maple top on the mahogany body of the JTV59 - I am not referring to the fingerboard.   The fingerboard on both my JTV69 and JTV59 are rosewood.


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#20 edstar1960

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:46 AM

To my ears, there's a hint of Strat-like "nasal-ness" to the first sample.  I was reasonably sure the first clip was a 69 before I even heard the second one.  I've always attributed this to the longer scale length. 

 

Your ears are very good!


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#21 edstar1960

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:54 AM

at first i though I heard slight differences but after extensive bouncing back and forth between the two clips they are pretty much identical.  Any slight differences are probably due to ever so slight playing differences and the subconcious desire to notice something, anything different just knowing they came from two different guitars...

 

for me anyways...

 

You are right - they are pretty much identical - the JTV59 (second clip) is just a little brighter than the JTV69 (first clip).  I notice it more when I compare them at volume through my L2m.  I don't think anyone would be able to hear a difference in a mix - you have to really listen carefully to notice it - but it is barely noticable


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#22 snhirsch

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 05:23 AM

Your ears are very good!

 

Amazing after 40 years of rock playing...  Even more so after an unfortunate choice of antibiotic by my physician left me with moderate midrange hearing loss and permanent tinnitus!  Nice to know these ears have some life left :-)


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990)

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Fender / Roland GC-1 Guitar

Boss GP-10 13-pin Processor

Antares ATG-1 Autotune Pedal

Fender Mustang III.v2 Modeling Amp

 






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