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Main :: DT50/DT25



DT25 - a great amp
by jonhollis on 2013-03-12 01:31:09

ive just had a day with my new DT25 - what a great amp. ive come from a tonecat from badcat - which is a wild beast - sounds great but very noisy and unpredictable. the DT25 is just as good as that. love the voicings and the ability to mess around with classes and triodes etc etc.

Anyway - i now need to hook it up to my HD500 - and half the reason i got this is that i thought this bit was going to be easy! - and now reading through all the discussions about this subject im now really worried im going to kill the tone of the amp by hooking it up to the HD500 via L6 link.

is this still the case? ive read the new setup manual - seems ok if you read that!.



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by innovine on 2013-03-12 03:09:22

It's not really a tone killer. Many have noticed that the hd500 sound isn't quite as good, but honestly it's still pretty nice. I used the hd500 for ages and thought it was fine, it's just when you sit down to A/B compare that you can detect differences. Note that you can disable the amp block in a hd500 preset, which means that only the hd500 effects will be in use, and then the signal goes to the B channel on the amp (and configuration of that channel is done on the amp, not via the hd500 preset). So if you really want/need the dt25 sound it is still there and you only miss out on having the amp change its knobs, the hd500 becomes just like a multifx unit. Having the whole rig change all the effects, amp and knob positions via foot control is probably only essential during live play, and can be argued that the tone differences may not be noticable with everything else going on. And for recording, you don't need the whole rig to change presets, so having the B channel manually configured isn't a deal-breaker.

An alternative configuration is to not use a hd500 and instead get a m13. Same effects, but you could set it up via the 4-cable method yet still use the dt preamp tones. Compared to the hd500 you lose out on the patch recall and easy editing, but you retain the dt tones and its probably a much simpler setup (although I haven't used a m13 so I might be a bit off).

It's fiddly when you add the hd500, and you'll be digging around in menus to configure stuff for a while, so it's not as plug-and-play as an amp is, but I guess that's part of the territory. Line6 have kept us in the dark as they don't release any detailed info, so expect some head-scratching and cursing as you try figure out why things are the way they are.



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-12 06:05:01

innovine wrote:

Note that you can disable the amp block in a hd500 preset, which means that only the hd500 effects will be in use, and then the signal goes to the B channel on the amp (and configuration of that channel is done on the amp, not via the hd500 preset).

one important note if you do this...

you will lose all post effects... as the audio travels one way... it will not go back to the pod to pick up those effects....

so yes it's possible... but no... it's not really the same.



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by innovine on 2013-03-12 06:49:51

You can do this with the m13 i think. You could also rewire the pod with its fx loop to put fx both pre and post preamp, but then you lose the link integration and you are basically using it like a m13

zap, is it possible to have a pod preset with the amp block disabled, and send midi to the dt to configure the b channel tone controls? You'd still not have the fx after the preamp but itd be nice to have the amp reconfigure anyway



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-12 07:01:03

I have the m13, and i'm sure you could do that, i've never bothered.. i'm able to get great tones with the integration... and refuse to make things more complicated than they need to be. (yeah it's all subjective... certainly do what suits YOU best)

it may be possible to some degree... but the amp channels are designed to be WYSIWYG..

and i'm not a huge midi guru... but what i've found is that it doesn't always have the desired results because of many variables...

had some feedback, and squealing etc... jumping from one amp model to another in that manner.



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by innovine on 2013-03-12 23:46:25

Actually, until I get to the bottom of my current issues, I can't in good faith recommend the hd500 in connection with the dt25 if you are conscious about your tone and sound quality. It might very well be that my unit is misconfigured somehow, but for me at least, I am giving up on using the hd500 preamps. It simply sounds too bad. My recommendation for you would be to try it out yourself before buying if at all possible, and compare the sound of the dt25 with the hd500 in terms of quality, depth, body, richness, etc. Mine suck ass and it doesn't seem to matter what hd500 settings I choose (different settings sure give different sounds, which you may or may not like, but all of them are sucky compared to the dt25 standalone tones). I'll be on the phone to line6 again, will update if any info comes my way.

EDIT: It's working fine now. I don't hear any difference anymore. I think there may have been a bug in the software, I toggled through all the output modes and set it back to Combo Pwr but the above problems vanished and have not been heard since. *shrug*



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by jonhollis on 2013-03-22 01:44:13

hello all - ok say i went for this im now running my HD500 into the DT25 - and its great. sounds great. ok it sounds a little bit different from the DT25 direct but not that much - and its not worse its just different. in my opinion. ive got it switching tube a and a/b on a preset by preset basic and the topolgies and everything. sounds really warm and tons of great tones.

the only drag - and there might be a way around this - is everytime you recall a new amp/pre setup it brings the cab model with it. which you dont need.  also i can only seem to do this on a preset by preset basis - i would rather be able to turn off the cabs as a global thing. it would also make a lot of sense to have proper DT25 presest to match the 4 topologies asa starting point.

im now tempted to buy a second to run in stereo.....



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by jmdandy on 2013-03-23 07:47:07

I don't understand what the benefit is in running a HD500 through a DT25. I already have a small tube combo with an f/x loop so why would I want a DT25? I thought modeling amps/fx was the whole point. The $ spent for a DT25 could be better spent on a Variax I would think.

Please educate me if I am wrong.



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by Slidedude on 2013-03-23 18:27:39

Hi all,

First - a disclaimer: tone is a subjective matter.

I use a HD500 into a DT25, and I'm getting great tones. Sometimes I don't use the Pre versions of the amp models on 500..in fact, I mostly use the Full versions because I think they sound fuller, in some cases. I have a preset I use that is a Dual Amp tone with a Dr. Z model and a Divided By 13, and I'm running the DT in Class A/Triode, and it's big, fat, round, and breaks up just a little when I dig into my guitar. I'm uising a Tele, a Strat, and a JTV69 for all my open/drop tuning stuff. I also really like the model based on the Marshall Super Lead 100 "Plexi" vibe - OMG.

jmdandy, if you dig the HD thru your tube combo, cool - but what I like about the DT is that I can customize the operating class, pentode/triode, and the negative feedback topography per preset. I can tweak the power section of the DT to behave like lots of different tube power sections. To me, it's not just the SOUND of these variations, but also how it RESPONDS to my touch.

Yes, it takes a lot of tweaking, but once you get the rig dialed in it can be really sweet.

Again, your mileage may vary, and objects in the rear view mirror ARE closer than they appear. (grin)



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by innovine on 2013-03-25 07:09:58

There are a few benefits to running the hd500 through the dt25, compared to some other amp, as I see it:

1. The DT25 switches its power stage from class A to class A/B and from pentode to triode, to best match the preamp you choose. This is with real tubes, not modelling. The negative feedback also changes, your tube combo amp doesn't do this.

2. Changing presets on the hd500 also change the amps tone controls.

If you are not pushing the power amp of your amp (ie its mostly just amplifying cleanly), and you are using the hd500 as a multifx box then you probably would get more bang for your buck with a variax instead of the DT25. However, if you like pushing the power amp hard and getting that nice tube breakup you might enjoy having the ability for the amp settings to change when your hd500 presets change too.

In my case, I didn't have an amp at all, so adding a DT25 to my hd500 was more bang for the buck than adding a variax (I'm pretty happy with my guitars)



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by jmdandy on 2013-03-25 20:42:54

Thanks guys for enlightening me as to why the DT25 is more desireable than a small combo amp with an f/x loop. I knew there had to be a reason. I will check one out someday but that will be after I get the hang of the hd500, might be awhile...



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by jmdandy on 2013-03-27 15:10:54

Ok guys I decdided if I am going to do this I might as well get  a DT25. It is on order. I am experimenting with the hd500 and ran it through my 112 combo. It sounds good but since I am just playing with the best of HD500 presets some are pretty useless on their own I am finding. There are some aspects to the weird patches that are interesting to analyze on HD EDIT for when I start writing patches. I am thinking it would be best to wait until the DT25 gets here before I start writing my own. One advantage if I ever get the nerve to gig with this set up is that if the POD dies you have a tube amp to bail you out at a gig. I would take a small pedalboard as a backup.

Any advice for a noob on running the HD500 into the DT25?

Your advice is much appreciated!



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by ahrens on 2013-03-27 17:03:07

There are maaany things you will go through.  You can save 6 or more banks of patches, so experiment.  I used a bank and saved all "pre" models, another for full models, then another "best of', another for a 7 string guitar with active pickups.

I made a patch for each amp modeled, you have an infinite choice...sometimes with certain topologies, a delay will sound better before or after the amp modeled or a compessor if you use one.  I have a second expresion pedal, so the built in one is always vol/wha

and the other controls the "mix" of every other parameter which is active.  Once you are happy with a basic tone/effect setup, you can copy it and just change the amp model, and tweak,of course!

The obvious benefit of this is that you use the same button to control the same effects models on each patch. I have all 8 "blocks" assigned on each patch. I don't use my HD500 for direct recording, I mic the DT25, I don't use dual amp models, I tried, but kept getting

messages saying there wasn't enough processing/memory or whatever it says exactly...

Your choices/ combinations are nearly infinite.  You will probably get the most satisfaction out of working out for yourself what is best for you.

Try to get your levels even between patches...there's so much more... but I'm gonna watch American Idol...haha



Re: DT25 - a great amp
by ahrens on 2013-03-27 18:44:07

( substitute the word "setlist" for "bank" in my previous post)

  I have channel 2 on the DT set up with a nice low gain/grainy sound(top II), so when I switch off my amp models on the hd500, it defaults to the DT25s channel B with the HD's effects.

  Some patches have the wha on when you go to them, others the pitch shifter or harmonizer or tremolo...ect... Sometimes patches are basically cloned with a differed amount of gain.

My buddy that I do some recording with is always remarking what a large variety of great sounds come out of the damn thing (DT25).

    I have my 500 setup so all 8 foot switches activate effects so I have to use the bank up/down buttons before I can switch patches. You can make it so the bottom row of 4 buttons will directly change patches, probably better if you play in a band. Make your setlists and banks  for ease of change for live performance...

   I wasn't happy with what happened to my patches when I updated to version 2(DT 25), so I'm using ver.1

(I had too many patches I was happy with to re-tweak em all)So I would recommend updating to 2 before making your patches. (Otherwise It will change the volumes differently for different topologies)

  I set up my patches so they start to sound great at 9 o'clock and up on the master volume, right where it starts to get loud but records really well(sings/harmonic feedback)

  Best wishes! Experiment, use you ears, realize there is no end, you just " settle" (for a while and stop tweaking).

Ask questions, get together with other local DT/HD users/experts for tips and whatever...it's so cool...!!!

I realize most of what I've written is about the HD500, but it's the DT25 that really gives life and authenticity to the patches.

The topologies and class A/AB are very different from each other. I have to have the amp model's volume and gain dimed on the 500's  "Twin" model

AND use a compressor get it's level to match my others.  It's just a weak TopologyI amp, but not all TopI models are weak(in conjunction with the DT25).

I could send you a "bundle", but remember I use Ver.1 and a second expression pedal.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.