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Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-14 02:45:40

Hello I'm from Russia, I want to clarify a few issues, because I doubt whether I translate into English.

Almost ready to buy this device, but there are issues.

1. The manual says that it is possible to record, save and playback on SD or multitrack harddisk.

To understand exactly what I give you an example and you tell me please if I understand.

   So I write the multitrack and his group, for example for 5 minutes. We call it a song 1. Then write the second and call the song 2. All of this is stored on sd.

    Can I now download and play song1 so that all the instruments sounded in their channels? That is, if I can so keep all my songs on the SD card and load them one by one to be played at the concert? My friends in the group may not always be present at the concert, so I need to be able performing some channels of recording drums for example. Not just a stereo mix, and every instrument by channel.

There is a possibility?

   And one more question, I do not understand is there any digital output? I have a digital crossover would not want to do resampling. Sorry for the mistakes, I translate through software in English.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-14 06:28:08

To your first question, yes, when you record to the SD card each input channel will be recorded to a corresponding recording channel.  This is why you are able to do virtual soundchecks by recording some music and then going out front and mixing the the recording as it plays back.

As far as using the recorded parts when certain members of the band are missing, the M20d will be able to do this but I think it would require your band playing to a metronome everytime or at least the drummer playing to a metronome.  Unless of course it's the drummer that is missng and you are playing to his/her pre-recorded drum parts.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by mishulix on 2013-03-14 07:42:31

Remember though, that if you try and play the internal media player, it will NOT be recorded with the rest of the tracks. If you need aditional playback backing tracks when recording, then use an external player and route it through 17-18 small stereo jack input. Or any other availible input.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by jeanpicasso on 2013-03-14 08:22:14

how much difference is there between recording "inputs only" and "inputs and main", for doing the virtual soundcheck?

is one of them preffered for soundchecking?

I have tried one of the settings (i think it was inputs and main) and Im not all sure that it played back exactly what we "put in".



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-14 08:28:59

For soundcheck, I think I would record inputs only that way you aren't getting all your tracks plus a left + right mix of the same tracks.  I don't know if Line 6 has built in something that defeats the playback of the mains but if not it's going to make it hard to hear any adjustments you make to the mix because the mains won't change and it will mask for instance a level change to track 1 (or 2 or 3 etc).



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by silverhead on 2013-03-14 08:50:49

I've just tested your question using my M20d and an SD card. I encountered a problem during playback. The problem is that I can't find a way to select a subset of the recorded tracks for playback. It seems that ALL recorded tracks are played back. The only way to inhibit the playback of some tracks (corresponding to your band members that are present for the live gig) is to MUTE the associated tracks. However, this also mutes the associated channel input, so the live sound from the present band members can't be heard.

So, unless I am missing something, what you want to do is not possible using only the M20d. I welcome input from others who have tested this.

But, if you have access to a computer and a DAW you can prepare your desired set of backing tracks in advance. Import the individual track/channel recorded wav files from your M20d recording folder (SD/USB device) into your DAW. Then create a WAV file mixdown of the desired tracks, corresponding to the missing band members. Then copy these backing track wav files to your m20d device and use the Media Player feature in the M20d to set up the playlist for your gig. When using the Media Player during your gig, remember to manually stop it after every song; by default the player immediately begins to play the next song in the list.

This means you will have to know in advance which of your band members will be missing for any given gig, and create the associated backing tracks accordingly.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-14 11:34:53

Many thanks to all for your answers, here in Russia is not one to ask, no one would buy such a device. It is sad to admit that scares people is unusual, like a computer game interface.

I studied the video and I think that the instructions made ​​this console is very convenient and clear for a musician.

   But your answer me upset. It turns out that select the source track during playback (from the map, or a live musician) can not? I think this is an important omission.Maybe it will fix in you next upgrade?

   Then I'll ask you one more question, when playing at all someone can play live? on the track that is playing? If so, you can not fill all the tracks and live instruments placed on the "empty" tracks.

Another question, and if you take a throw multitrack DAW, and there are some channels to edit, and then move back to the same multi-channel video will play console waves edited?



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-14 11:39:12

Yes, I understand. The record will be a metronome. Question, and may be sent to the record sounding drums in the headphones to the drummer, so he played in sync with the recording?

   Oh, the bottom already answered this question is no.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by silverhead on 2013-03-14 12:47:16

I'm sorry - the software translator is making it difficult to understand your questions.

Unfortunately the M20 d is not designed to do what you want to do. I don't know if this will be changed in a future update.

The primary  purpose of the multitrack recorder on the M20d is to record the audio inputs to all channels for later processing in a DAW on a computer. The difference between the onboard 20-second 'sound check' recorder and the more general multitrack recorder is just a difference in the duration of the audio that can be captured. In both cases, the recorded dry audio tracks/channels are fed back into their respective channel inputs on playback. You can keep an instrument plugged into any recorded channel input and play along with the recorded playback - like an overdub except that the live play cannot be recorded 'on top'. What you can't do is select which channels/tracks will play back, so that you can replace some recorded tracks with live play while the rest of the tracks play back. All recorded tracks are played back. You can mute the playback, but this also mutes the physical channel inputs so that your live players can't be heard.

EDIT: Your last question prompted me to try another test. I removed the SD card with my earlier recording on it, made a copy of the Record Folder to another folder, then deleted one of the audio files (corresponding to a band member). In other words, I tried to manufacture a playback folder that would simulate your situation where only one band member was present by playing back all other tracks/channels. Unfortunately, when this new folder was selected for playback in the M20d recorder, the folder appeared empty. The M20d did not recognize any of the audio files that are contained in the new folder. Apparently the M20d somehow knows whether or not an audio file was recorded directly; it does not recognize an exact copy.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-14 13:07:17

Sorry translates as Google. I understand what you are saying, I will try to explain in another way. Can I write only 5-6 channels? Or if recording is sure to play all the channels, I can write some of the channels on the silence? And then those who are silent connect live instruments? And can I change the settings of the track (FX, Comp, Gate) during the playback?



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by ArneLine6 on 2013-03-14 13:17:07

Since firmware 1.10 the multitrack recorder does play files that come from other sources. As long as they are 24bit/ 48kHz mono files the multitrack recorder should play these files.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by ArneLine6 on 2013-03-14 13:21:10

Yes, you could record only a few channels. To do that you would have only these channels as stage icons, record and the add the "live" channels. This way you could play back the recorded channels while playing live on the others.

You could also put the card into a computer and delete the files for the tracks that you do not want to use.

And yes, you can change settings (FX, Comp, etc.) on recorded or live tracks.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by silverhead on 2013-03-14 13:26:06

Excellent suggestion! Yes, I just tried that and it works! My earlier recording has 4 input channels/tracks. While this was playing back I added a 5th input/channel to the setup and it could be heard through the Main Outs (not the headphones for some reason). All DSP is vailable as usual on the new input.

So in your case it seems you can make a recording of only the instruments/voices for the band members that will NOT be present at the gig, and then during the gig you can play that recording back while adding the present band members to the mix.

There may be some confusion regarding the 'Setups' - and I mean the M20d technical term for setups. I think you will need to create a setup for the entire band - with all planned inputs defined. Then, make your recording of only the desired channels/tracks by muting the others. An ewmpty audio file will be created for the muted channesl, and this empty file will be played back. However, when your real instruments are played during the gig they will be heard over the empty backing track.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by silverhead on 2013-03-14 13:28:35

ArneLine6 wrote:

...

You could also put the card into a computer and delete the files for the tracks that you do not want to use.

Hmmm.... I tried that and the M20d did not recognize the remaining tracks/files. (see my edit in post #8 above). Did I do something wrong?



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by ArneLine6 on 2013-03-14 13:40:34

I just realized that the M20d does not like it when you change the files on an SD card while the setup is still loaded. Just re-load the setup after inserting the SD card.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-14 19:55:27

Thank you very much for your answers. Today, I'll buy it, because I think this is exactly what I need! L 6 link does not work like a normal digital output?



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by silverhead on 2013-03-15 07:06:33

No - it does not. L6 LINK is a Line 6 proprietary protocol. It carries command & control information as well as audio. It will not be compatible with any other  connection.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by mishulix on 2013-03-15 11:30:52

I know it involves more work but. Why dont you mixdown your recordings the way you like with the missing bandmember and copy the stereo mixdown tracks in a different folder named "missing drummer" for example. And then play back the tracks when needed directly from the internal player. I would find that way more desirable instead of going in the recordings and doing that extra work with multitracks. I know you lose the channel mixing of e tracks missing, but if you make a proper mixdown, you would not need further tweaking of those individual tracks.



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by rew432 on 2013-03-15 15:05:00

I'm doing well now. But it is very uncomfortable. Can not edit the mix, the master can not put dynamic plugins (Pro TOOLS) otherwise live instruments are bad mix. So it is possible of course, but I do not like, I can not edit. Various concerts and different rooms.

   I just bought a mixer. I hope it lived up to my expectations. I think I was right



Re: Question on the multitrack.
by mishulix on 2013-03-17 08:12:22

I was thinking you download the tracks in your DAW of choice and mix them down there with software VST plugins you like. Then mixdown in computer and export waves for the stereo player in the mixer. A good mix with good effects is almost like a CD, it should play with minimal tweaking everywhere. I know because I use backing tracks like that for over 3 years and until now no complains were heard.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.