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Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-11 22:19:55

I just got my brand new M13 home today. I love it but I'm having an issue with a volume boost in my amps FX loop. I have a Peavey Valveking 100 head, which has a buffered serial FX loop. I'm running the M13 with banks 1 and 2 in front of the amp, and banks 3 and 4 (delays verbs etc..) in my amps FX loop. I went to start setting up my standard delay sound (digital with mod) I noticed a fairly significant boost in volume when I engage the delay, even with the mix set at zero %, I still am getting a volume boost to my power tubes. Has anyone else found this to be a problem? Any possible solution?

Thanks!



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-11 23:59:15

Apparently I'm running the old firmware by the way, however, in the advanced manual PDF, there is only mention of distortion, comp and chorus output levels being addressed in the new firmware, but not the delay models...



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Line6Hugo on 2009-06-12 13:25:56

Traverser,

Please update your M13 to the latest firmware of 1.07 and let us know if you continue to get a volume boost.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-14 11:32:33

So I went out yesterday and spent $40 on a USB midi interface and updated my firmware, only to find the problem has not been addressed. There is still a noticeable boost in volume when engaging delay (especially the digital models) in my fx loop. I have checked and rechecked my settings, routing and cables... I love the m13, and all my line 6 products, I just hope some more of these little quirks will be addressed in the near future...



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by KozMcCharlie on 2009-06-15 08:36:59

Check to see that you aren't running M13 in True Bypass. If you are using True Bypass then you will be pretty much shutting off the FX Loop when you have no effects selected. That would certainly cause the big boost you're talking about. You need to be in DSP Bypass.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-15 08:48:36

Thank you, but yes I am running in DSP bypass. As I said, I have very carefully checked all routing, cables, and settings on my amp, and on the M13. I have a good friend who uses an almost identical setup through a VHT Pitbull head, and he has noticed exactly the same problem. We are both active musicians in our area, and we know our gear very well, but we're both kind of scratching our heads on this.

This is most noticeable when playing on amp's distortion channel, just crank up a bit of volume, dial up a didgital delay model in your amps fx loop, turn the delay mix all the way down to 0%. Now strike a chord and while it is sustains, click that delay on and off, you'll hear it.

Thanks for your continued help and suggestions.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-15 08:57:34

And just to be very clear, I'm not talking about a huge boost in volume here, maybe 3 or 4 db in the signal getting sent to the power section of my amp, but it's definitely enough to notice, like I just clicked on a bright switch or a compressor or something...



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by geeker on 2009-06-15 09:14:52

Try just connecting the M13 in the effects loop without doing the four cable method and see (hear) what it does then.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by phil_m on 2009-06-15 09:55:44

It seems to me that your issue might have to do with the fact that your amp's loop is buffered.  What a buffer does is convert a high impedance signal into a low impedance signal, and the M13's converters weren't really designed with a low-Z signal in mind.  So perhaps the fact that you're experiencing this drop is related to that.  I've used a setup basically identical to what you describe with my Spider Valve, and I've not had any problems with the levels.

This is an interesting article about buffers and pedal bypass circuits.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-15 10:03:56

The impedance conversion you mention seems to be the most promising avenue so far... I wonder why my old DL4 didn't cause this issue though, I had that in the same place in the chain that my M13's banks 3 and 4 are now.. I will look into that..

Funny thing is, with the delay engaged and mix at 0%, I really like the tone it puts out! LOL!



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by Traverser on 2009-06-15 10:35:27

Ehhh... Now that I think about it, an impedance issue wouldn't only manifest itself in one or two effects... it would be across the board...



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by dbraman on 2009-07-01 11:20:57

I'm running my M13 through the effects loop (not 4 cable) of my Mesa Rect O Verb 50 and I have noticed the exact same thing. Any delay or mudulation causes a significant jump in volume. It's unusably out of balance with the previous volume level. If there isn't a fix for this already, there absolutely should be one on the way...ASAP



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by lukacspeta on 2010-05-10 08:47:29

Hi!

I have the same problem. I tried it with several amps, cables (not in fx loop, but in the front input of the amps). Before the v2 firmware it was good, after the upgrade comes the volume boost.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by stumpsout on 2010-05-10 11:19:28

same issue here...volume boost....drag.

I had it with my 4CM setup with my other amp, and now with my Vox amp with M13 going straight in.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by phil_m on 2010-05-10 11:30:11

I notice a volume boost with the modulated delays more than anything else.  And even then, the boost seems to really only become really noticeable if I have a delay cascading into another.  I'm using an Egnater Renegade, and I have the M13 entirely in the loop.

It seems like this boost is related to the boost that happen with the other modulation effects.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by stumpsout on 2010-05-10 17:44:34

I've also noticed a volume difference when I try to use chorus or other mod effects, never seem to get it right.

Also, even with the Graphic EQ with the level at zero..still boosts.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by jpdennis on 2010-05-11 15:37:54

I do not remember where I read it in this forum, or it may have been a Mesa forum I visit, I had to really dial in all my scenes at the individual FX level.  I played with my main Mesa Mark III and then adjusted the mix or gain or volume based upon the FX and type until I had relatively the same gain signal per FX as I went across the scene.  It can become tedious as well when you put a 3 stage gain and internal EQ amp in the mix for me though it does make my life easier then when I had an ocean of FX units across & circling the floor around me.  I will try this with my Heartbreaker and see if I can replicate this db gain problem with the delay FX units in the M13.

Dennis



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by remixthewar on 2010-06-21 13:32:46

Yo!

was this issue ever addressed and fixed by line 6?  I am really doin some research into this product and would love to use it with my 2 amps in stereo in the amps loops for delays and reverbs.

peace,

-a



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by sandro on 2010-06-22 02:18:04

Same problem! I'm checking for this kind of post since months ago. My M13 is updated to 2.01 firmware and I still have problems in volume increase (or sometimes decrease) with some modulation (analog chorus, some flanger effects) and with filter effects (almost all filter effects) have a significant and irritating volume increase. Even using 4 cables method and simply Guitar-M13-Amp method. Line 6 please fix this problem, it seems almost all M13 owners have this problem.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by jjbutera on 2010-07-08 08:49:13

I didn't have this problem when the M13 was in front of my input. However, once I started putting the M13 into my amp's FX loop (Marshall JVM 410c), then I started having this issue. Like it was said before, the volume increase isn't huge, but enough to completely change me in the mix. I notice it the most when I engage mod effects such as a chorus. It would be nice to resolve this.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by ncsink on 2010-07-15 06:53:57

I'm having the same problem (as discussed in another thread: http://line6.com/community/thread/38553). I have the latest update and I'm running the M13 straight into the front of the amp.  Most of the time I'm using an overdrive in front of the delay, but it seems to have the same issue (maybe less pronounced) with no overdrive.  I use delay effects most so that's where I notice the most problems.  I've owned the Line 6 DL4 and Boss DD5 so I'm fairly familiar with how delays should work...and there is definitely a noticeable volume increase when engaging the delays of the M13.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by clestrad on 2011-01-23 06:13:52

What is the status of this issue?

Is this still goin gon for all or most M13 users?

I am thinking about getting this and will use the 4 cable method to use OD and such into the front end and reverbs and mod FX into the loop but I am hesitant because of this issue.

Thanks



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by jpdennis on 2011-01-31 12:44:20

I use the 4CM for my Mesa amps (.50 Cal - EL84, Mark III no dot or mark, and Heartbreaker).  Two things are 1) the mesa manuals talk about what pot controls the FX loop and that helped me greatly.  2) the new v 2.04 seemed to help solve this as well.  But that is just me.  You can refer to my previous post in the thread with respect to taking the time to A-B the heck out the M13 for this very reason.  I use DSP bypass which helps alot.  True bypass modifies the volume based up taking the loop controls out of the mix.

Dennis



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by rizzorock on 2011-05-01 11:34:18

Has this ever been resolved? I have owned an M13, M9 and now 2 M5s. One in my loop (for delays) one before the amp (whammy, etc.). I'm running them thru a Bogner XTC. I still get the volume boost problem. It would be great to get this fixed.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by rizzorock on 2011-05-08 18:49:52

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by rizzorock on 2011-05-17 15:47:30

I think I may just set up a blank preset with the levels at 0 and leave the loop on at all times. Maybe that way the boost will always be there. Just shootin in the dark at this point.



Re: Effects are boosting volume in amps loop.. Please Help??
by rizzorock on 2011-06-09 16:01:00

It didn't work as I had hoped. Back to the drawing board.




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