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Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-08 23:39:11

why the cabinet relative to Vetta1 HD has Custom Celestion speakers while the Vetta2 HD relative one has V30s? is there any difference in sound generation between the two heads to justify that? if yes, this difference can be overcome with the update? when using the V30s loaded cabinet you still allow CAB/A.I.R. emulation or bypass it to get the full potential out of the V30s?

i'm about buying a 2nd hand Vetta1 HD and i'd like to know if my 2x12" Celestion Classic Lead cabinet is "rubbish"...

thanx, bye



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by Line6Hugo on 2009-07-09 10:49:07

frac82,

All of the Vetta (I and II) cabinets used the same Custom 12" Flat Response Celestion speakers:

http://line6.com/cabinets/vetta.html

The Vintage 30s Celestions are not flat response and will color your tone with the sound of the Vintage 30s if you choose to put these speakers in a cabinet to use with your Vetta II.

Regards,

Lin6Hugo



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-09 12:27:05

so what about this: http://line6.com/cabinets/index.html ?



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by Rowbi on 2009-07-09 12:34:08

yeah what line6 did was discontinue the vetta cabs and only sell the Spider Valve cabs now which have V30's in.

really you would be best to use original vettaII cabs is you can get them used, or use a pair of spider III cabs if you can sire them up correctly for the right impedance, etc.



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-09 12:40:48

so why does Line6 load combos with custom speakers and heads extension cabinets with V30s?!?



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by ricksox on 2009-07-09 13:41:18

The decision to put V30's in the newer Spider Valve cabs was collectively made by the design team at Line 6 along with Reinhold Bogner simply because they liked the way it sounded. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

Line6Miller



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-09 15:13:37

that's ok...

it sounds strange that they put  "neutral" speakers on a combo but for heads suggest cabinets with very characteristic ones; in principle: if cab/a.i.r. emulation on Vetta combos sounds properly with Seventy80s why loading the heads cabinets with V30s? i'd deduce that either cab/a.i.r. with V30s sound better or it's unuseful with "quality" speakers... isn't that?  



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by Line6Hugo on 2009-07-09 15:30:34

The Spider III Cabinet has the same Custom Celestions as the Vetta cabinet does.  As Miller mentioned, the Line 6 Spider Valve Cabinet is the only cab with V30s in it for the reason mentioned.  You don't have to use one cab over the other as long as it sounds good to you, but Line 6 does make a 4x12 cab with either set of speakers.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-09 23:34:10

sorry but i don't think so... as described in the link i posted above:

412VS CABS

Maximum Strength

The 412VS closed-back cabs produce superior tone of the highest definition. Compatible with Spider Valve™ HD100, HD147® and Vetta™ II HD

heads, these cabs can be used in mono or stereo, as a half stack, or in any combination up to a perfectly ear-splitting set of eight. For anything stronger you’ll need a prescription.

  • Four 12" Celestion® Vintage 30 speakers

  • Weight: 83 lbs.

  • Dimensions: 29" L x 30" H x 15" D

  • 120 watts max per side, stereo (8 ohms per side, stereo)

  • 240 watts max, mono (16 ohms or 4 ohms, mono)

the only cab suggested for Vetta HD has V30s... if you say it's cheaper to produce just one cab model i agree with you, but it's impossible for me to believe that you can get the same output (from combo to head) with such different speakers. i just can't believe that 2 equal sound processors different only in power throw out the same sund through those kind of speakers!



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by Line6Hugo on 2009-07-10 11:01:13

Before the Spider Valve Head was released, there was a another Line 6 4x12 cab other than the Spider III Cabinet for use with the Vettas and HD147 that carried the Custom Celestion speakers. That cabinet was discontinued after the V30 4x12 for the Spider Valve HD100 was introduced. Since then, there has been no official 4x12 Vetta cabinet. But that does not mean there are no cabinets to be used with the Vetta, as the V30 cabinet is perfectly compatible for use with the head as the webpage says, though the V30s will color the tone. Some people find this desireable, some don't. The Spider III cabinet is also perfectly compatible with the Vetta head along with any other cabs from another manufacturer with a matching load from the cab to the Vetta head.

We here in support are here offer additional information to supplement the website or manuals with public info on our products. So, though it may not say on the website that you can use the Vetta HDs with a Spider III cabinet, I am here to tell you that, yes, you can use it with the Vetta HDs along with any other speaker cabinets with proper matching loads.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-10 12:42:51

i really don't wanna be polemic! you're all doing a great job for support and the forum is fantastic (once you understand the new layout! )!

and i know general compatibility is just a matter of impedance...

my question was another... i see the Vetta combo loaded with known neutral and colourless speakers (C12P or Seventy80); "that's right!" - i think - "cab emulation comes from the sound processor and must be changed as little as possible."

then i see the Vetta HD with its V30s cabinet ; once again i think that's ok because something inside the head internal circuitry/firmware differs from the combo one and yields better with colourful vintage speakers... but once again i read the faqs and along the web that the two amps differ only for maximum output power!!! now i get a little confused...!?! do you know what i mean?

thanx



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by ricksox on 2009-07-10 14:37:11

then i see the Vetta HD with its V30s cabinet ; once again i think that's ok because something inside the head internal circuitry/firmware differs from the combo one and yields better with colourful vintage speakers...

There is nothing inside the head, internal circuitry or otherwise that is different from the combo. We load the combos with custom flat respnse celestions. We discontinued the old 4x12 flat response cabs and replaced them with the V30's. Not sure why. It was a development decision.

Line6Miller



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-11 04:05:55

ok, at least as i supposed...

so can we say that, regardles of personal taste:

  • Vetta combos produce a more true/faithful sound than heads with current cabinets?
  • to obtain the best from a Vetta HD (with current cabinets) is better to disable the CAB/A.I.R. option, letting the V30s work?


Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by jvblack on 2009-07-11 11:05:50
  • I have a combo and i love the way it sounds.  Never used a head/cab setup with the vetta.

  • Why not get two small, full range PA cabs and run them in stereo instead of a 4X12 guitar cab.  It's probably easier to transport and carry, and should be plenty loud.  I've run my combo this way a couple of times with the internal speakers disabled, and it sounds AMAZING.  Being able to separate the left and right speakers really enhances the stereo aspect of the amp.  If i had to do it over again, I'd get the head and do that.  Maybe you could try it at rehearsal or take your head to a local music store and try it.  Don't buy a big, expensive 4X12 until you do.

I'm pretty sure some of the users of the various pods do the two speaker thing with a power amp.  You might check out some of the pod forums here and in the archives.  There's no reason you couldn't do the same thing with a Vetta head using it's own internal power amp.

The cab models are (in my opinion) a great resource.  You shouldn't have to give them up just because Line 6 doesn't make a cab.  There are speakers out there that can do the trick.

Hope this helps,

Joe



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by jvblack on 2009-07-11 11:26:27

Forgot to mention:

The first time i did it, i used two little PA cabs with 1 - 12" and a horn.  It sounded really good, but i don't remember the brand of cab.

The second time i tried it, i used two Peavey PV215's.  They have 2 - 15" and a horn, and they sounded incredible.  However, they're about 80 pounds each and i wouldn't want to pack them around.  However, with the 15's the low end was nice and smooth without being boomy, and the highs were very smooth without being harsh.

If i were shopping for this rig, i'd probably look for something with 1- 15 and a horn with a pretty flat response.

Joe



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-12 23:33:20

i'm not sure to understand well what you want to say, Joe...



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by jvblack on 2009-07-13 03:44:33

My point is this:

If a suitable full range, flat response 4X12 stereo speaker cabinet cannot be found, one could simply use two small full range PA type cabinets instead to take advantage of all the cabinet modeling features of the Vetta head.

One could also use two of the Vetta 2X12 extension cabinets.  There seems to be a few retailers that still have them in stock.

Joe



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-13 03:58:03

yeah, i totally agree with you: two 2x12" cabinets are always better than one 4x12"! both for the sound and flexibility/portability!

meanwhile i probably found the answer to my question at this link: http://www.vettaville.com/vetta1.htm .

citation from the website above:

<tr>
    <td width="706" bgColor="#000000" height="1">
      <p align="center"><b><font color="#ffffff" face="Verdana" size="2">Vetta
      A.I.R. II&nbsp; Mic Options</font></b></td>

  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width="706" height="272">
      <table border="0" width="100%" bordercolor="#000000" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" bgcolor="#000000" height="300">
        <tr>
          <td width="50%" valign="top" rowspan="3" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="230"><font face="Verdana" size="1">The
            Vetta uses the new A.I.R. II for Direct Output processing. This is
            nothing like the POD A.I.R. (which was more or less a volume control
            for a few milliseconds of miked-room ambience). </font>
            <p><font face="Verdana" size="1">The A.I.R. II on the Vetta is
            actually three &quot;classic&quot; virtual modeled microphones (see
            pics) with two settings each.<br>

            <br>
            <b>These &quot;ONLY&quot; affect the direct outputs and have no affect
            on the signal that is going to the Vetta's speakers...anyone can
            verify this themselves by playing thru the Vetta Combo and scrolling
            thru the different virtual mics...you will not hear any tone change
            coming out the Vetta's speakers...which would make sense, since you
            typically mike-up a cabinet to record it, so obviously Line6 has
            already included the virtual-mics for you., which is really cool!</b></font></td>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="73">
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Shure
            SM-57</font></p>
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Shure
            SM-57 (Off Axis)</font></td>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="73">

            <p align="center"><img border="0" src="images/small-sm57.gif" width="120" height="26"></td>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="110">
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Sennheiser
            MD-421</font></p>
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Sennheiser
            MD-421 (Off Axis)</font></td>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="110">
            <p align="center"><img border="0" src="images/small-md421.gif" width="54" height="60"></td>

        </tr>
        <tr>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="31">
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Neumann
            U67</font></p>
            <p align="center" style="line-height: 100%; word-spacing: 0; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font face="Verdana" size="1">Neumann
            U67 (Off Axis)</font></td>
          <td width="50%" valign="middle" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" height="31">
            <p align="center"><img border="0" src="images/small-u67.gif" width="23" height="75"></td>
        </tr>

      </table>
    </td>
  </tr>



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by AndyParedes on 2009-07-13 09:27:14

If you are interested in acquiring the Vetta "flat response" speakers, you can still order them directly through a Line 6 dealer. Another option would be finding a dealer that has a new or used Vetta cabinet is stock so you can compare the sound yourself.



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by frac82 on 2009-07-20 13:34:50

<div class='jive-rendered-content'><p><i><b>If you are interested in acquiring the Vetta "flat response" speakers, you can still order them directly through a Line 6 dealer.  Another option would be finding a dealer that has a new or used Vetta cabinet is stock so you can compare the sound yourself


</i></b></p></div>

thanx, but i didn't mean that... however i found the answer to y question on the chart bolded above

bye, see you next



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by drunkuilled on 2010-05-13 06:56:17

Hi guys,

I seem to have a problem with Vetta II.

When I plug in the full-range PA-box to the amp-out it sounds really bad - lot's of distorted high frequences (from the horn). When I use the cheapest PA amp and go direct out from the vetta to the pa-amp and to the same speaker - it sounds awesome.

How can this problem be solved? Obviously it is a problem of the poweramp inside my vetta - is it supposed to be working? Or is there something wrong with the vetta?

Another problem or feature that I don't understand is why on the output page I have the selection between 2x12 and 4x12 when I already specified on my cabinet modelling that I use for example 1x15 thunder? I could probably understand that for usage of the external speakers but why does it affect the direct out??? Can i switch that off? For example POD X3 doesn't have this option on the direct out and to my ears it sound much better.

Cheers,

Sergey



Re: Vetta HD 1 vs. 2 cabinets: speakers comparison
by kdguitar61 on 2011-10-14 09:28:43

is it the same in the combos? will the wattage difference have any effect on the sound?

i was wanting a vetta ii used, but because of money im probably getting a vetta i instead




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