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Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 07:06:42

So The StageScape seems pretty convincing and I think even later models will create a whole new niche in the live sound mixing scene.

But Most Mixers have multiple i/o jacks for EACH mic/guitar/keys/etc. that's plugged in.

Is the StageScape missing this?

How are we supposed to use our VITAL Aviom Personal Mixer Hardware or does this Mixer have something up it's sleeve that I'm missing?

Especially if I want the same processed sounds coming from the mixer to the Aviom System?

Mics/Guitars/Keyboards/etc. ---> StageScape Mixer ----> Aviom Input Module ----> Personal Mixers

                                                            |

                                                            |

                                                            \----->  House Speakers

thanks



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by silverhead on 2013-03-27 07:33:11

You could use the M20d Monitor outputs to feed the Aviom. There are 4 monitor outpus - not one for each input.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-27 07:45:55

Just to add a piece to the puzzle, why do you need to go to the aviom input module then to personal mixers?  Is it as simple as you already have this gear but don't have iPads?  Or something more complicated?  It might help with either further solutions along with silverhead's idea.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 07:54:38

So as of right now there is no way to output separate outputs for each input to the Aviom Mixer?

It is possible to run all the stage equipment into the Aviom, which itself has thru jacks for each input which could then be input to the StageScape. The obvious problem is that this is all "unprocessed" sound going into the Aviom module such as vocals and such. I realize that some people don't like their personal mixes for their monitors/headphones to have processed vocals and such but what if you did want them processed and sent to the Aviom Module AFTER going through the mixer.

Only possible solution I see (really isn't a solution since there's no processing which defeats what my whole question is about) is this:

Mics/Guitars/Keyboards/etc. ---> Aviom Input Module ----> StageScape Mixer ----> House Speakers

                                                            |

                                                            |

                                                            \----->  Personal Mixers



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by silverhead on 2013-03-27 07:59:56

GracefulGideon wrote:

So as of right now there is no way to output separate outputs for each input to the Aviom Mixer?

....

Correct.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 08:00:28

The Aviom Module takes all the inputs and turns them into a digital signal through Cat 5 (various inputs are turned into one Cat 5 line which runs to and then through each personal mixer on stage)

My problem with the Stage Scape is that it seems to lack, on the hardware side, the ability to output each single input back out to outside hardware that you might want to further process it with (such as the aviom module). It seems once something is input all that you are given is 4 monitor outputs and the house speakers.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 08:02:37

cool, I'll check back on this post if someone hopefully has a solution, but it seems unlikely since it's a hardware issue

I was really excited to maybe buy this AWESOME looking mixer but probably should wait for a few future updates of it's hardware.

thanks for the info silverhead!



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by silverhead on 2013-03-27 08:06:29

It seems that what you want is for the M20d to deliver indepedent prococessed outputs for each of the inputs. In essence you want 20 (not 4) Monitor outputs, at both Line and Headphone levels. This would be a new product, at much higher cost and size.

The M20d  designers apparently determined that 4 Monitor outputs is the most marketable balance.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-27 08:32:23

Well I don't know that this is really what he wants.  He wants all the signals to go to the Aviom but that's just so each signal can be processed by the musician's.  I don't think he really needs 20 different mixes and that's why I was asking my question in the first place.  I think really the ipad can take the place of the entire aviom system.  The iPad could be the personal mixer and that's probably why they don't offer individual outs from each input.  You don't need them to record, because you can record right inside the unit, you don't need it for routing to compressors etc because you have all you could ever need on each channel already, and you don't need it for personal mixing because you can do that from an ipad over wifi.  Although I agree, silverhead, that if he needs more than 4 separate mixes this mixer won't meet those needs, but up to 4 you can mix each input separately into each monitor mix from an ipad.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 09:19:46

What I'm saying is that there should be 20 output jacks (maybe beside each of the inputs or somewhere near them) each having that single input's sound which could then be sent back out with a simple toggle for it to be the unprocessed or processed version of the sound. I agree completely that the routing "technically" wouldn't be needed for separate FX/processing and such since those are the features this awesome mixer provides in the first place. But the Aviom Module and the personal mixers it sends to doesn't process the sound, it's just a major tool in providing players with their own personal mix (volume,pan, etc.). My band and I have 7 personal mixers (already more than the 4 monitors provided by the StageScape)


If you look at any normal mixer on the market each input has multiple jacks for I/O of that single input's sound. I know this definitely is an awesome piece of hardware/software for smaller bands who only need 4 monitors, but what is a larger act to do? Maybe I'm just surprised they only came out with 1 size seeing as they have multiple sized PODS for guitar processing. It would seem obvious that they would provide multiple sized mixers with more hardware and I/O for smaller to larger stage needs that what this "one size fits all" offers.

Also, I did not know that the 4 monitor mixes could be changed from 4 separate ipads form on stage I though only 1 ipad could connect and change settings. If this is true though, it still seems silly that each band member would have to then each have an ipad. Even if the StageScape's hardware offered more than only 4 monitor outputs it still seems simpler and cheaper to just have an output for each input (possibly with the option on the touchscreen to toggle whether that sound is processed or unprocessed version of the sound).

I'm thinking this thread is not anymore a question of whether this mixer can do what I'm asking but more of why doesn't it



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-27 09:52:18

Hi, yes you can have multiple ipads control the stagescape and even nicer each ipad can go into different views and if I go to a deep tweak on channel 2 it doesn't change the view on the M20d.  I hope my comments didn't come off as criticism, I totally get that you already have the gear and it would probably be easier and more cost-effective to just use what you already own.  But I think I was pretty much answering the "why".  They didn't build the M20d specifically to work with Axiom gear, they built it to cover all the bases in a futuristic way. They are building it to do what you want to do wirelessly with gear that you can use for a bunch of other aspects of your life.  As far as why don't they have more versions of this board ie; larger scale with more channels, this is their first foray into this product area and they really broke the mold when they designed and built it.  I think it's fairly safe to say you would want to make sure there's a market for the mixer before making more versions. Remember the first POD there was only one version.  I doubt that larger versions would include individual outs, perhaps more monitor outs, but all the reasons that there are no individual channel outputs on the M20d would still stand for larger versions.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 10:45:54

I definitely don't take it as critisism litesnsirens. I guess it's just the fact of equipment becoming outdated only a few years after it comes out that stinks. Each Aviom personal mixer is $499 and therefore we've spent a lot on it as can be seen. IPad's themseleves cost about $399-499 as well and I guess it's safe to say that having a so called "personal mixer" Ipad for each person on stage instead of the Aviom mixer is just as feesible financially. My dream right now would be if we could sell our Aviom system and replace them each with an IPad and use the IPads on a version of the StageScape that offers more than just 4 monitors (bands and musical groups have more than 4 members...) I could only imagine 7 Ipads on stage

It's just weird that Line 6 decided to be so "futuristic" (using IPads as personal mixers/monitors... and only 4 possible mixer/monitors with the M20d at that) to leave things that aren't even archaic (such as the Aviom hardware) in the dust.

EDIT: Actually... another random thing would be that you technically wouldn't need any more monitor out jacks hardware-wise. Because the IPad's are connected wirelessly for personal mixing it should be completely feesible to update the software on the M20d to send out each/any of the 20 inputs after they have been converted from Analog to Digital on the mixer to each IPad. This personal digital signal could then be converted back to analog on each separate IPad and sent to the headphone jack of the IPad for listening pleasure. Of course each IPad "personal mixer" on stage would only control it's own mix for the headphones and not the actual settings on the StageScape itself that are being sent to the House PA system



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 11:53:41

I guess my only other questions after presenting that idea would be "Is it already possible with the current firmware to add more than 4 "virtual" monitors on the touchscreen without having 4 monitor speakers physically plugged into the 4 jacks?" and "If that is possible, is it possible to then access these "virtual" monitors from more than 4 IPads and listen to that personally mixed monitor through the IPad headphone jack?"

If the answers are no, then darn
I feel like that would be a VERY awesome thing to implement in the next firmware update of this mixer.
If the answer is yes, then Line 6 has just destroyed the Aviom Module, the old days of towers and cables of compressors/reberb/etc,
and taken over the mixer market with this "all in one" heaven machine of a mixer.

Just hope it doesn't crash or there goes your whole live performance for a few minutes while you tell your audience to wait as it reboots



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by litesnsirens on 2013-03-27 12:51:25

Hey, I feel your pain, I've been down that road.  I actually use an iPad Mini and I prefer it to the full sized iPad and they start at $329 if that makes it a little easier (I know not much).  What I'm wondering is if you could just use 4 iPads and create 4 slightly different mixes and have some of the band members share a mix.  I mean a single mix has to suffice for everyone out front and if it's good it should work even for the musicians.  So although it's not quite as much control as you would want, it might be a half decent runner up.  And if not, as I eluded to above, who knows, if these mixers really take off and there seems to be enough demand maybe Line 6 will come out with an M40d. And maybe it will have more monitor mix busses.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by silverhead on 2013-03-27 13:00:56

GracefulGideon wrote:

I guess my only other questions after presenting that idea would be "Is it already possible with the current firmware to add more than 4 "virtual" monitors on the touchscreen without having 4 monitor speakers physically plugged into the 4 jacks?" ...

No, it is not possible. Every stage icon is mapped to a physical input jack, or in the case of monitors the icon is mapped to one of the 4 monitor outputs. There are no 'virtual' inputs or outputs; they are all tied to hardware. An attempt to add a 5th monitor to the setup is greeted with an explanatory message and is denied.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 13:11:36

True that, True that. Thanks for the info by the way and understanding what I was getting at.
Using only 4 mixes definitely would be a good close 2nd. Though, I'm sure my bandmates would disagree having gotten very used to their Aviom personal mixers and the ability to cut out everyone but themselves in their mix.

I do think having seemingly unlimited "virtual" monitors that can be controlled by seemingly unlimited IPad's would be very useful and probably better than even simply adding more monitor jacks as it can be changed by Line 6 by a simple firmware update

I think I might submit the idea to them at least and see if it does anything, because I definitely see these mixers becoming a hit as well. Both in the amateur and professional field just as their POD's did back in the day.



Re: Aviom Personal Mixer Outputs?
by GracefulGideon on 2013-03-27 13:18:30

Ah, well that's a bummer. I believe in Line 6 though. Hopefully one day or in a future version of this mixer they'll add "virtual" or to better put it "wireless input/outputs" for stuff such as IPads/computers/wireless everything on stage . Obviously for my "personal monitor for each person on the stage" idea this would help but I feel like so many other things would be possible if they implemented this in their design.

One day our guitars and mics will have a connect button so we simply connect wirelessly to the mixer and jam away haha

"Roads? where we're going we don't need roads!"




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