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Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-07-30 15:31:14

I checked FAQ and couldnt find this answer, is the a way to turn off the mic simulation in the Line 6 Editor, the other modules can  be clicked on off but i cant seem to find a way to remove the Mic module from the sounds. I have only just got the amp, its an older Flextone III with no XLR outs or extra speaker out. thanks in advance.



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2009-07-30 15:36:14

The Mic simulation is tied to the cabinet simulation.  You can only switch off the mic simulation by selecting no cabinet, but then the amp model sounds all wrong.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-07-30 16:01:44

Meh... no short cuts, will have to program it via FCB controller................./sigh     thanks for reply



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by spaceatl on 2009-07-31 11:30:35

Hey Crusty, there's a workaround...

That is something that changed in the 3.0 Edit for the Flextone III...You actually can turn off the mic with the setting of "No mic"...But that is only available in the 2.x versions of Edit....Or you can go to VettaVille and get Tweakwizard...It let's you do this...

There is a way to do it in Edit 3.0....There is a bug in 3.0 that when you select the On Axis 57....that is actually the no mic setting....another good reason to NOT use 3.0 with a Flextone III...Revert to 2.x or Tweakwizard with your Flexy...

TW.JPG



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-08-04 02:01:05

Thanks a bunch spaceatl , Im using the 6x6 .syx (fcb1010) from vettaville.nl but didnt know about tweak wizard, I only just got the amp and the fcb and have spent about 8 hours fine tuning 2 x 6 presets via Line6 edit. If you have any more advice I would greatly appreciate it.



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by spaceatl on 2009-08-04 07:51:39

Welcome!

Get ready to spend some time with it...I think the Flextone 3 benefits greatly from a little outboard gear. One real popular approach is to stick a stereo EQ in the FX Loop a global room correction EQ...Makes it a bit easier to tweak at a gig and leaves the patches untouched. I also think the amp really benefits from putting a more transparent speaker in it...I don't think the stock OEM Celestion Seventy80s are a good choice for open backs...They work pretty well at lower volumes, it's when you get to gig volume that those things can start farting...And they eventually will...The Spyders are not rigid enough for open backs...But this has more to do with using the cab models...Some guys like to turn that off and get the Seventy80 color...This is sorta where everything gets subjective to personal taste, much like guitar pickups...But here is what I did with my Flextone III XL...

I went pretty overboard when I was using my 3XL as my main amp.

GTR->ADA Mp-1->Boss BCB-60 (AW-3->DS-1->FZ-5->LM-3->DM-3)->Flextone III XL GTR Input

FX Loop

10 channel midiman mixer (makes the loop parallel)

Effectron 1024

Effectron II 1024

Yamaha SPX-90

Yamaha SPX-990

The stomps on the BCB60 are mostly gain stomps (exception: AutoWah & DM-3(Dedicated Pre-delay))...The ADA is controlled via midi from the Flextone and my use of it was more as an EQ and programmable tube screamer...When you push the model with a stomp, the behavior is very consistent with the real thing...The SPXs also change with midi from the flexy...I have bypass switches for all four so I could change things around in the loop.

I was in a cover band at that time doing a very wide variety of music...With that rig I could just about nail any tone I needed. It took me almost a year to get it completely built and I did change the speakers in the amp and modified it to support a sealed 212 in tandem. I set out to make the amp consistent with the XLR outs so that it could render a 412 model at gig volume...

That is the most "flexible" rig I have ever had. I have since downsized and now use an SV112 with a 212 cab and the Flextone III XL in tandem....The Flextone III is my dedicated FX amp and the SV is pretty much dry tone...Still use the BCB60...Gotta have my gain stomps...



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by AndyParedes on 2009-08-04 11:27:02

Thanks Space...

Please be sure to award Helpful and/or Correct points to community members who respond with helpful or correct answers!



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-08-06 05:07:23

wow, awsome setup and thanks for the prompt response. Tweak Wizard is very sweet I have started using it as default editor now.

Its taken me a while to google all the above mentioned gear... I am an absolute beginner when it comes to digital Amps/Effects so the advice is greatly appreciated.

Can you please tell me how you control your Flex live?

I have only ever owned valve amps so I have a lot to learn as I want to get as "close" to the tones from the setup I used through the 90's for mainly Blues/rock material.

- Reissue 1990 JTM 45 (4x12 greenbacks) which i Bought new in 91, and an original 66 Super Reverb (BF) with 4x10s.

Effects - Roland space echo( that was unreliable), Boss DD3, and a TS9 (original), MXR EQ and a modified Crybaby. I used an AB box to split the signal (mono) and the DD3 stereo out with a 80-120ms delay depending on room size. For small gigs I just used the Super.

I now have a family and have limited $$.

I plan on getting another TS9 but would like to know more about the effects loop EQ you use( I am a midi novice as well),

I am programming chan 7on my FCB1010 to be able to ajust the Drive + Tone controls across all presets on the flex live until I can afford a decent EQ.

Also as I have the 2003 Flextone III with no XLR or extra speaker out I was wondering if there was any other major differences between it and the newer models, mainly in regards to my options for speaker replacements. I apologize if this info is elsewhere in these forums but I havnt had time to look.

Thanks in advance.



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by spaceatl on 2009-08-06 14:30:36

Valve amps...Yes sir, right there with you...I still use the Flextone, but now it is dedicated to being an FX amp...I getting my main tone off an SV112 that I run in tandem with the Flextone...All controlled from a single FBV Shortboard...The rack is in my studio now...I still have all the peices...I have just re-allocated because I am in an original band now and not doing the cover gig anymore...If I were to do a cover gig again, I would put this rig back together again...

FX Loop

That rig was a bit of a throwback to the 80s with the rack...The Effectrons and Spxs are pretty old units but I like them still...They basically pickup the slack for FX the Flextone can't do like pitch change...Basically if you put a mixer in an FX loop it makes it parallel os you can run the FX 100% wet and use the volume parameter in the particular effect itself to adjust the ratio...I use an FBV shortboard to control the Flextone...That kicks the program change on the midi out of the Flextone and changes the SPXs and the ADA (That in front of the amp)...I use the FX Loop button to enable/disable...The Effectrons don't have midi so they are whatever I left them at or bypass them (footswitches)...Those are generally for special use delays, chorus or flanging...I don't use them much but what they do is pretty unique sounding...generally, time based stuff is going to work better in the loop (Delays, Flangers, Reverbs)

A global EQ in the loop is a different matter...That is a convienient way to get correction without diving into the patches...The EQ on the Flextone is good but can be a bit agravating...It has just enough control, but tends to need just a little help IMO...I got really great results when I tried my ADA Mp-1 in front of the amp. I have of others using everything from a dual 15 band dbx to little Boss GEQ-7...

There is also a mod where folks close off and port the back of the amp...That mod gets a lot kudos around here...It tightens up the bottom end and gives you a nicer thump...

Yours is really not that different from a 3plus or XL...A 3plus is actually an XL...The only real difference is the extra speaker in the XL...Yours is different in that it has a mono power amp and no XLRs....The modeling hardware is exactly the same...You are still stereo in the headphones...



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-08-09 17:36:32

Thanks a ton for the info, sorry about the delay in replying, been flatout. I used the flex in rehersals on friday and it was really the 1st time i had it over 30% volume(master), was dissappointed with the clean sounds I had put together at volumes over 50% . The Treadplate High gain sounds were ok but the bottom was lacking definition ( as you described above) and I can see how the EQ setup you mentioned would benifit this.

I can really hear the cab sims in the high end harmonics, so i have started experimenting with no cab's at all and am getting a better- warmer result from the overtones especially with Lenny Breau harp techniques.

Did you use the cab sims for clean sounds when flex was your main amp? Also what are my options with the 2003 flex for a line out? is it possible to use the effects send out via a DI or mixer ( I have a Eurorack UB1002 mixer) or do i have to Mic? (sorry if this sounds dumb but i have no xlr outs) I am having trouble figuring out the best way to use the mixer in the loop, is there a site you used for this kind of info? I found some articles at http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/  but my head is still spinning

I am reading some info on  what cab sims actually are, and how they affect the harmonics  at the moment so mabey Im just doing somthing wrong. Thanks in advance



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by spaceatl on 2009-08-10 07:57:19

Your welcome...

You will not hear the mic models in the speaker...You do hear it in the headphones. There are so many combinations of amp and cab...Some are great...Some really suck...My favorite clean on the Flextone III is the AC30, Treadplate cab and 57 off-axis...I pretty much always have a cab and mic model because I use the XLR outs...

The only thing I can suggest on checking out the cabs is to leave the EQ flat and go for the cab that is the closest to what you a looking for qwith the EQ flat, then go from there...The mic model also affects this but you don't hear that in the speakers...I thinking putting a mic on it is probably going to work out better for you to start with...You basically have a guitar cabinet in the Flextone and the approach of not using cab modeling when micing the amp is quite common...I think you are on the right track...



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-08-10 14:30:24

/salute -


you have helped me enormously , I have just had a new addition to the family and the last 2 weeks and things have been hectic so I have been lazy and asking questions I could have researched more if time permitted.

As a newcomer to this forum / technology having contributed nothing, I have to say thanks again.

Should i start a new thread/discussion as I have deviated the orignal subject a lot?

Tone is the most important part of the music to me, and I can still remember vividly the sound of my old amps and the characteristics which I am trying to emulate.

The mic sims I have turned off on all presets- I have figured out how to turn them on and cycle through them via midi so I do that last.

The approach i use to get the clean tones-

1. starts with the L6 amp default - all tone nobs on 5, - when you say flat do u mean 0 ? no effects, and test from 30-40% Master volume ( live in flats so am mindful of angry neighbors - Cant find any info on the EQ correction used in TweakWIzard so i havnt been using it -- Do you have any links?)

2. Ajust drive to desired level then adjust chan vol

3. Select cab model and play across all 5 pickup settings (strat) with minor flex tone ajustments and try Guit vol at 6-8 as well. I then turn off cab sim.

4.Return Tone nobs to 5 then Tweak Bass Mid Treb Pres and a tiny amount of Rev 1-5% and compare to cab sim sound. If cab sim gets me closer I go with it.

Repeat steps 3 and 4 (using Tweak Wiz compare) until I find somthing I like- then think about effects which i will spare you.

Can you offer any suggestions to make the above method more practical-concise?

I have just bought a really cheap cheesy Octave pedal with 1 and /or 2 below and have dusted off my Mixer and multi effects so things are gonna get more complex by a lot, I have a day or 2 to experiment.

Take care thanks in advance.



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by spaceatl on 2009-08-10 14:52:42

That's a great way to get to know the amp...I spent a month or so doing that when I first got mine...A lot of combinations in there...

The Loudness EQ correction in Tweakwizard was an experiment...Basically the idea is you turn it on when you are playing low volume...Version 3 was when it first appeared and that seems to have been the end of Tweakwizard...I never tried it so I am not sure how well it works...



Re: Turn off Mic SIM in Editor?
by kr0n0s on 2009-08-15 21:22:00

Just an update on 2nd rehersal, got a much better result across all clean sounds with cab+mic sims off. The Treadplate and other high gain sounds seem to sound "bigger" and better with the 412 cab sims- (the problem is making them "tighter" throughout the bottom end ), I also added a 20ms digital delay at about 70% mix to my plexi lead and it really fattened it up. Thanks for saving me a ton of time.

I have been using Tweak wizard for deep edits but it is crashing from time to time, have you had this problem?...( it may be because I use Vistax64).

I now have to figure out the best way to run my Eurorack UB 1002 in the effects loop, I have had a look on the forums but i really need a newb tutorial can you suggest any links? I tried using a really cheap octave pedal as a stomp but the sound was mucky-slosh, it sounds much better through the loop. Thanks in advance.




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