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Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Jbungie on 2009-03-13 21:30:54

I have the spider valve hd 100 and the pod x3 live. I would like to know all the different way's to connect these two beast's to get and amazing sound. I can't remember what the 4 cable method is. So if somone can explain that again for me. Is there any other nifty  way's to set these two unit's up?  Spider valve sound's great but in my honest opinion need's some serious eq'n to get great tone. Wich the pod x3 can deliever. What's all the way's to hook these two unit's up?   Pod x3 has great tone. But i want to throw in that tube tone from the spider valve. Can anyone help me out here?



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Jbungie on 2009-03-14 06:10:16

Ok ok found the link to the old forum were this was discussed more. Still curious to other way's to set these bad boy's up.    1500 dollor's worth of  equipment and i want to get my money's worth.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by shawnt113 on 2009-03-15 08:43:47

I have the POD X3 pro and I am thinking about getting a Spider Valve Head to use as a power amp, so I can keep it all in the L6 family



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-15 14:53:51

shawnt113 wrote:

I have the POD X3 pro and I am thinking about getting a Spider Valve Head to use as a power amp, so I can keep it all in the L6 family

Shawn,

That's the rig I've got.  Also a 112 combo for home/backup.  It is fantastic!  You have just about any option under the sun with that setup.

X3ProHD100.jpg



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by shawnt113 on 2009-03-15 15:12:56

so if you dont mind me asking how do you use the units together? Here is what I am thinking of this.... In my rack is my X3 Pro, Boss GT-Pro (which may be replaced by the M13) my wireless, ISP Decimator gate MXR EQ and Electro Harmonix Black Finger. I was thinking of running all of that into the power section of the SV Head



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-15 15:25:15

Yep, you can do it just as you said.  Sounds great.

I put the SV preamp in the X3 Pro effects loop using the four cable method.  That way, I can put effects before and after the Spider Valve amps.  Big advantage here is that I can put some parametric EQ post SV amp model.  Some of them really need that.

Or with the flick of the effects loop switch on the Pro, I can just run the X3 into the power section of the SV.  Pure magic.

Another little trick I've done is using dual tones and fading them with the Shortboard expression pedal.  The primary dirty tone is on the SV, and I fade it to a clean tone on the X3.  Again, pure magic.  Works just like I want it to, with different effects on each tone.  Really simplifies the tap dance.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by A7whiny on 2009-03-15 15:32:05

Wow Karl!!!!  Now that a rig!!!!!!!!!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-15 16:34:11

Thank you, sir.  It's what I gig with.  I used to use an X3 bean with an Atomic 212.  Then I went for the HD100 with the 412, straight up.  Then I had an M13 and MXR EQ with that.  Now I'm compromising by integrating the X3 Pro into the rig.  I think it's the best option for me so far.  Perfect combination of amp models and effects.  The ONLY thing it could use is MIDI on the SV, but I find I'm really not missing it.  Especially when using that dual tone fading trick.  Now instead of doing a tap dance of potentially 2 to 3 switches, I just ease on back on the expression pedal and I get a smooth transition from dirty to clean.  Effects and all.  And, of course, custom EQ for each amp model.  Voila!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by A7whiny on 2009-03-15 18:10:39

Sounds like you make some improvements.  Glad to hear it.  I know its awsome looking!!!!!!!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Jbungie on 2009-03-15 18:24:59

I agree Karl that setup im sure sound's amazing. Also looks impressive and cool. Now just stack a mini fridge full of beer on top of all that and your really set.  Im still trying to get the sound i want from the x3 live and sv  combo.  Do you know of any other option's on hookin this up besides four cable?



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-15 19:20:46

Jbungie wrote:

Do you know of any other option's on hookin this up besides four cable?

There's that, or just go into the poweramp input.  That's about it, really.  You could go in the front, but I find that too much of a headache from a tone correction standpoint.

Here's what I do when I use the amp model on the X3 and bypass the SV preamp.  Set your output option to combo (or stack, depending on what you have) poweramp.  Select the X3 amp model you want and set the cab to "no cab".  Now tweak your X3 preamp tone stack to where you want it.  Once you've got that sounding right (no flubby low end, mids come through clear, highs aren't piercing, etc.) use the X3 parametric EQ to dial it in further.  Depending on the model you've chosen and what speaker you have in your SV, you might want to make some good roll-off in the neighborhood of -8 to -10dB on the top band starting at around 8K.  Further mid boosts might be necessary at 2.1K and ~1K.  If you've done a decent job on with the tone stack and the low end isn't farty, you can actually boost that around 250Hz to get back some of the meat.  If it sounds boxy, decrease 500Hz.

Really depends on the sound you're going for and what model you choose, though.  Those are just general settings.  Experiment and find out what sounds right for you.  Imagine having the Bogner power section and cab design as the amplification for dozens of X3 amp models.  I truly believe Line6 did those right but their cab and mic models are a bit deficient.  A real cab powered by a real power section really brings out their magic.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by rydock on 2009-03-16 01:03:23

Hey Karl. I know I've asked you this before, but you didn't exactly tell me why you stopped using the Atomic 212. I'm asking this because I'm also using a 212 Reactor, but have played around with the idea of running my X3 through the power section of the HD100 just so that I could use a 4x12 of my choice. I've never had the chance to try a spider valve with my pod yet, but how does the power section compare to the Reactor? Is running a 4x12 with regular speakers better than the Atomic's oversized cab and Megaton speakers (how would you compare how they push air)?

I know with my 212, it has that real amp "feel" to it. Does the HD100 have that same feel? I understand with a real cab, you gotta turn off cab modeling and rely on the actual cabs voicing. How does not using cab sims on the Spider compare to the Reactor with cab sims. I know you use the stack pwramp mode in your setup, and it's definitely the best setting the Reactor could ever have. I absolutely hated studio direct everytime I left in on by accident, from recording, and sounded like my amp was broken.

I'm sorry for all the questions, but you seem to be the only person that has gone through both setups.

Thanks in advance



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-16 05:45:32

Okay, here's the deal.

The Atomic Reactor is probably the best tube amp solution out there for getting loud with an amp modeler.  Period.   Well, wait.  Let me qualify that statement.  An amp modeler with good live cab models.

The problem is the POD.  The Atomic speaker and cab is reasonably flat, but not necessarily full range.  It has guitar speaker and cab characteristics.  King and Kolbe were trying to strike a balance, and they did a decent job at that.  The original idea was to use the POD in Studio Direct mode with the Atomic.  What we users found there after much experimentation is that in comparison with some other output modes that sound GREAT through a PA is that they end up sounding compressed and unnatural by comparison on the Atomic.

So we tried Stack Poweramp where the mic models are disabled and the cabs are revoiced.  Sounds better than Studio Direct.  More natural, less compressed.  Breathes more.  Actually, sounds pretty darn good.  Until you put it in the room with a real tube amp.  Then you start to notice that there are still characteristics there that sound a little plastic-y.

Okay, so the natural progression here is to turn cab models off altogether.  Let the Atomic cab be the cab.  Whoa, big mistake.  The Atomic cab isn't a regular guitar cab, remember?  Flatter response, not quite full range.  Sounds like ass without a cab sim.  The problem here, I believe, is that the POD's revoiced cabs in the live output modes are revoiced to match standard open and closed back GUITAR cabs.  Because if you run it that way into a real guitar cab, it sounds much better.

So now you buy yourself a real guitar amp with a real cab and run your POD into the effects return in Stack or Combo Poweramp mode with the speakers engaged.  Sounds good.  But you just bought a real cab, and hopefully a good one.  Why are you trying to emulate something different?  So now you turn the cab model completely off and it sounds heavenly.  Like a real amp.  The Spider Valve by itself convinced me that Line6 nailed preamp modeling a long time ago...with the POD 2.0 !!!  POD X3 amp models, minus the cabs, sound just as great into this amp.  As they would into just about any real amp and cab.

Wait a second...what about my Atomic?  Is it all of the sudden no good?  No.  You've probably noticed that Atomic has joined forces with Fractal.  That's no accident.  Remember what I said about good cab models?  And remember how Atomic has just come out with an "FR" version of the amp with a tweeter and redesigned cab?  They are going after the Fractal community's need for a good amplification solution, and from what I've heard, it works.  What I'd like to hear is how one of these FR amps does with a POD in Studio Direct.  I bet it does well.  Unfortunately, they aren't shipping yet.  And they only have a 112.  Not an option for me.  I need a 412.

To answer your question about how the power sections compare...I'm not quite sure.  The Atomic power section is designed to be as close to a linear amplifier as is possible.  Meaning that you're not going to get power tube distortion from it, at least not in any meaningful amount like you would when you crank, say, a Marshall's power section.  You'll still get a subtle compression from it owing to the tube amp's nature.  The only reason the Atomic is powered by a tube amp is because it turns out that's the least expensive way to make a high quality, near linear amplifier.  With today's tech, it could be done with solid state, but it would cost a fortune by comparison.

Now, I'm not 100% certain on this, but I don't know that the Spider Valve power section is much different.  Cranking loud on the clean models, do you hear any power tube distortion early?  I guess a little, but not a lot.  I do hear a bit, or at least I think I do, with some of the other models.  But it's a 6L6 based amp and they break up differently than an EL34 would.

Anyway, sorry for the encyclopedia article.  But I think this is the first time I've gone on the record with this.  Hope it made sense.

Edit: as an experiment, try this.

Run a regular 412 cab of your choice as an extension cab on the Atomic.  Turn off the Atomic internal speaker.  Turn off cab models on the POD.  What do you hear?  Sound good?



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by sofnwhat on 2009-03-16 08:13:14

     Karl you suck! I'm digging that set up. This means I'm not gonna be happy until I sell my X3L and scrounge some more money together to get the Pro. Thanks man. Just when I was starting to focus mt attentionon as early 90's Swamp Ash Les Paul. Since you got the Pro are you running some of the amp models from it as well as the SV'S? How's that Working out?



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-16 08:23:42

The only amp model I'm running from the X3 is for cleans.  I've spent a lot of time on my plexi crunch, JCM800 and recto sounds on the SV and don't want to re-work those.  They fit too well with the band.  And only reason I'm running the clean on the X3 is because I can fade between the SV in the loop on Tone1 to the clean on Tone2 with the expression pedal.  That's how I want it to work because I suck at tap dancing.  I can hit an occasional stomp in the middle of a song, but hitting 2 to 3 switches to go from clean to dirty doesn't work for my uncoordinated a$$.  Especially if I'm singing too.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Jbungie on 2009-03-16 10:02:58

Thank you karl i'll fiddle around with these idea's.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by rydock on 2009-03-17 03:10:30

Man Karl, thanks a lot for this!

I've loved my Atomic ever since I had it, but after playing out with other guitar players, I've also noticed that my setup was lacking something. I've been chasing down other solutions, and was thinking about ditching the modeling scene altogether and getting an "all-tube" amp that could do one tone really well + a good clean tone. I've kept using my Reactor up until now because I felt it was a very high value setup, and after reworking the same patch I've had since my XT days, I've gotten a lot of compliments on how good my tone sounded.

Anyways, thanks to you, I have a lot of experimenting to do, with everything you told me in mind. I think one solution one could do while still keeping the Atomic would be to change the speakers in the Reactor cab and not using cab sims on the X3. This wouldn't seem to be economical though, and who knows how a strange Atomic cabs would react to the non proprietary Megatons. I like the idea of running the X3 through Spider Valve head with any 412 cab, but I keep saying to myself, why not just spend that money on a good brand amp.

You must have been through a lot just to have found out of the downfalls of your Atomic setup. This may have also jump started this chapter of my tone chasing journey. This is probably the greatest amount of information I've ever recieved about gear, ever. Right now, I feel I have a whole world of options open up for me.

Thanks!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by rydock on 2009-03-17 03:16:20

I might add: I wish I had recieved this exact information about a week ago. Over the past week, I've sold my X3 bean + shortboard and ordered an X3 live. This was my own little way of trying to better my Atomic rig. I felt I needed the effects loop on the live because I had a couple of ideas I wanted to experiment with that would potentially aid my sound (i.e. EQ pedal, noise suppressor in the post, etc.). If I had known this, I would have just kept my bean. But what's done is done.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-17 09:45:53

You're welcome.  I still think highly of the Atomic, but I see where this is going just like you did.  I'm on my way back to a real amp setup, but can't shake the convenience of modeling.  I still need a modeler for certain applications, so why not make it part of all of my rigs?  Of course, I realized the fatal flaw in my reasoning is that I don't exactly have a backup effects unit now since I sold my M13 and X3L for the Pro.  But I could always use the SV internal effects in a pinch if I needed to.  Only thing I'd really need there would be a noise gate pedal.

So now I'm in the position to go all-tube if I really wanted to, and use the Pro for effects.  Not sure what all-tube rig that would be because it would have to have at least 4 channels and a diverse array of sounds.  If I had to do it, and if I won the lottery, I'd probably go with the Egnater modular system.  They've got a selection of modules and that 4 module rack unit that would probably do the trick for me.

As an aside, the Pro I got seems to have a minor hardware flaw with one of the rotary encoders.  I am pretty dissappointed by that, but I have a replacement on the way and will use the one I have until then.  It's still very usable, just annoying on that one particular encoder.  But on the good side, the XDS-Plus wireless that was bad was just replaced by a working unit.  I guess it was my turn for a run of bad luck with this gear.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-19 08:53:32

i admit i am an old dog trying new tricks, i have the x3-pro and the spider valve hd-100 with the sv4x12 cab, i hook the pod to the pwr amp in jack on the back

i have tried different output settings like, studio, stack, etc. but for some reason the hd 100 sounds better? im doing something wrong i think, i also have the m-13,

i might try, lots more hardware so it might sound better? or is the hd-100 just awesome by itself? i am lost...he he..



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by rydock on 2009-03-19 13:32:16

Are you using "No Cab" in your amp model setting? Also, you would probably have to make new patches specifically for use with the hd100



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-19 14:03:09

i saw someone mentioned that, gotta look up how to find that "no cab" setting, not sure how to do it. thank you for the info!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-19 14:12:49

billybonesmusic wrote:

i saw someone mentioned that, gotta look up how to find that "no cab" setting, not sure how to do it. thank you for the info!

Just cycle through the cabs until you reach the end.  It will say "no cab".



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Bluestone on 2009-03-19 14:53:30

Karl.......Sweet!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by jeff5x0 on 2009-03-23 15:37:09

Do you have your settings on the Spider Valve Patch page? Id be interested in hearing your JCM 800 patch.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-23 16:08:11

I'll create something over in the "share your tones" section later tonight.  Have to dump my bundle anyway.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by jeff5x0 on 2009-03-23 16:41:00

Thanks Karl. Lol this new forum is running you ragged huh?



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Insidian on 2009-03-25 19:42:36

Damn you, Karl. Just when I think I've finally got everything straight as far as my rig goes and have good tones dialed in, you have to come along with a better setup, and a pretty damn good explaination of why it works. Gets my G.A.S. going again...now I've got to redo my rig all over...*grumble*

I gotta have some tubes....

All joking aside, though, nice rig.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-27 09:34:36

i found this way.........guitar to pod (cable 1) Pod effects send to amp guitar input (cable 2) amp effects send to Pod effects return (cable 3) Pod output to amp effects

return (cable 4) this seems logical....BB



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-27 09:52:06

Hold on...this will only work with another head, the Spider Valve has no no effects loop so this is moot for us HD100 guys, lol sorry. gotta do the pwr amp "in" thing

then select "no cab" just like the man said.......



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-27 11:36:21

billybonesmusic wrote:

Hold on...this will only work with another head, the Spider Valve has no no effects loop so this is moot for us HD100 guys


The Spider Valve HD100 most certainly does have an effects loop.  I use it all the time.  There's also one on my 112 combo.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-27 11:48:22

so the effects loop is the pwr amp in & power amp out? and will hook up with the 4 wire setup i just posted? sorry for this but i am 47 yrs old and getting stupider by

the minute! i think i will just wait for the Vetta II tube amp to come out next year!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-27 12:04:23

Yep, preamp out and poweramp in.  Thar's yer loop!   Nor worries!  I'm getting to the point where I have to take my glasses OFF to see things.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by sofnwhat on 2009-03-27 12:08:38

Bill, Charlie here, preamp out/ power amp in is your effects loop. I think you'll be happier if you can get the 4-cable method going. I have to work tonight but the next time I sit down to play I'm gonna give the 4-CM a try. I'll let you know how I make out. I'm with you though, I'm gonna make do with what I have whlie I wait for the Vetta Valve.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by billybonesmusic on 2009-03-28 08:23:24

i tried it with the effects loop and it worked great! the method with the pod efx out to guitar input i cant get to work because once i utilize the pwr amp in and pwr amp

out, it cuts off the guitar input in the front i  think, not sure,, gotta mess with it more.



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2009-03-28 08:27:12

billybonesmusic wrote:

i tried it with the effects loop and it worked great! the method with the pod efx out to guitar input i cant get to work because once i utilize the pwr amp in and pwr amp

out, it cuts off the guitar input in the front i  think, not sure,, gotta mess with it more.

It doesn't cut out the guitar input on front.  Sure you have everything hooked up right?  Like this:

(ignore the fact that it says "Marshall".  Just pretend it says "Line6" on the front. )  I should also add that you need to enable the Effects Loop on the X3L, and make sure the mix is at 100%, input and output at 0dB.  Bypass the amp and cab models on the X3L and set the amp bypass volume to around 50%, master volume at 100%

<a target=new href=http://benvesco.com/tonemonster/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/diagram.jpg" class="jive-image" src="http://benvesco.com/tonemonster/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/diagram.jpg"/>



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by matizadomrb on 2009-07-16 13:41:22

Hey Karl!

Fantastic post man! I have a question for ya:

I have a Spider Valve 112 (with Strymon’s SVPre) and I’ve recently purchased a Pod X3 Live. Your rig seems flawless to me and I wanna try and replicate it with what I’ve got.

I’ve tried the 4 cables method and it works great with the 112 and X3L for putting some effects before and after the SV amps.

I’m curious about the possibility of also using some of the amp models of the X3 by running the X3 into the power section of the SV.  You said that with the flick of the effects loop switch on the Pro” you can run the X3 into the power section of the SV. Can that be done with an X3 Live as well?

I’m not aware of such a switch in the X3L but I’ve had it only for a couple of days and I can’t really go look for it right now cause I’m at work! (although I’m not doing much work apparently hehehe). Is this something unique to the X3 Pro? Do you have any idea if this can be pulled with what I’ve got?

Thanks man!



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by money_monster on 2009-07-28 02:58:12

Based on what I understand,

You can do the trick with the X3L, just by turning off the effect loop manual on the control interface since the X3L doesn't have a physical switch like the pro.

One question:

How is the Strymon’s SVPre?

I have the same rig like yours, and considering installing the SVPre for my SV.

I mean how much is the difference with the SVPre installed,and the amp modellers from the XL3?

Coz I noticed that the XL3 is really good at duplicating the sounds, but it kinda fails to duplicate the organic dynamic/response of an all-tube amp lol



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by cosmo0507 on 2010-01-11 11:17:28

I have a general question. I am using  a Spider Valve 1-12" as my main rig , I have a POD 2.0 as a bcak up. Which model POD would be best to duplicate the Spider Valve? Note it is an original not the MKII

I would appreciate any help or input  Thanks , Tom



Re: Spider valve with the Pod x3 live
by jesuscares on 2011-01-18 20:00:13

can you share the link you found from the old forums?




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.