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Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by adamhartley on 2013-04-11 03:58:08

Hey all, I've been gigging for over a year with hd500 to dt25 head with a Marshall 2x12 (1936) cab. I play a lot of pub/club gigs and always send a signal to the house pa. I've found my amp is often only set to master vol at 9 to 10 oclock which is not really driving amp into the 'sweet zone' like I've heard it without the hd500 or past 12 oclock. My favoured preamps for covers are the 45, 800, and treadplate and set to volumes at around 35 to 40.

So I'm curious about other working muso's preferences and experiences with Amp volume. I've just discovered at home I can get more power amp volume by muting path b in the pod's mixer. This may be a big help toward driving the dt harder and I'll try it next gig, but I'm not sure if it's detrimental to preamp tone in any way. I've also thought of bringing preamp volume down, but again, is this detrimental to tonal characteristics?

I've used LVM live before for small gigs, but have more recently just gone direct out at really low volume gigs as it seems pointless to me to even use the head unless it's utilising the valves.

I really like the hd500 and the  dt25amp, especially for it's endless options,  but it's been endless tweaking and testing, and have never really been blown away by the combinations, except when the amp's cranked. Glad I didn't bother getting the dt50 for my gigging purposes.

Adam.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by geppert on 2013-04-11 11:01:14

I have been having success with my DT25 by diming out the Master Volume (up full), using the Gain to get the amount of grunge I need, then using the Channel Volume for my over all level. I have lately been using the VOX AC30 preamp (acutally, I prefer the DT internal preamps over the HD500's), dimed on on Drive and anywhere from 10 to 2 o'clock on the Channel Volume depending on venue. This has been working nicely for my needs so far. On the Clean channel (A) I use the Fender Twin NOR, Dimed Master Volume and Channel Volume, then use the Drive for my needed overall volume. This of course keeps the Drive level as low as possible which translates into clean as possible. So to summarize, the Clean Channel (A) Fender Twin, overall volume is done with the Drive Level, the Crunge Channel (B) Vox AC30 overall volume is done with the Channel Volume. In both cases the Master Volume is Maxed. Clean and Grunge Channel's overall relative volumes can be matched to taste. Just my .02 for another gain staging perspective.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by adamhartley on 2013-04-11 19:46:39

Thanks geppert, this is helpful. The only problem I can see with this method, is that it would involve constant adjustment mid gig of preamp volumes, and would require resaving the patch gig by gig. I'm endevouring to keep patches saved as usable for all venue / song requirements in the HD and utilising master volume for venue by venue volume adjustments. I'm a firm believer in lower stage volumes allowing better FOH sounds, but equally a firm believer that Valve amps sound best when driven harder. This is why I bought the 25 and not the 50. My previous gig rig was a Marshall half stack utilising an attenuater which was great. The DT is a great amp too, and I've gone LIne 6 for simpler plug and play with seemingly endless amp tones and effects. Ideal for covers work. Just needs some refinement.

I'll try winding down the preamp volumes further with the aim of bringing DT's master up to 3/4 or thereabouts, depending on venue, but the preamp patches are already about 35% and concerned their voicings will suffer the lower they go.  I only use 3 or 4 pre amp models per gig and match their output so the DT's master volume acts globally and evenly for all. The preamps are saved to about a dozen different patches where different effects are utilised for simple 1 footswitch changes. If I cranked the master on DT to max, any changes on the fly at preamp volumes, will become unlevelled in relation to other saved patches. This is why I'm curious about utilising the mixer, but unsure how the L6 link cable affects path A and path B of the mixer when controlling Amp A. All my patches are single pre amps with basic effects. I don't understand what's been removed when I've muted path B, and it's hard to test at home with gig volumes.

Will be trying this all out tonight at a gig, but for safety, I've saved the same setlist twice in the HD500. One with mixer path A and B both at unity ( 0db ), and the other setlist identical except path B is muted. I'll be trying this first.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by geppert on 2013-04-11 21:20:07

Yup, everybody works differently. Good luck with your search for a comfortable setup that works for you.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by talwilkins on 2013-04-14 14:02:15

Using the mixer to attenate in order to be able to turn the DT master up is not a bad idea.

I added a Dunlop M108 10 band equaliser in the effectsloop of the HD500, because I wanted to have a global EQ, something the PODHD really misses IMHO.

I put the effectsloop at the end of the chain. The nice thing about the M108 is that is has an input gain and output level. With these I can also attenuate the volume at the end of the chain and crank the DT some more. The good thing is that I can keep the patch levels high enough so the amp doesn't lose any quality.

It works for me!



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by adamhartley on 2013-04-14 22:33:28

Great idea! yeah global eq would be very helpful. I switch between a strat with HB in bridge, and an EVH Wolfgang, which obviously each sound quite different with any given patch, so to avoid duplicating patches for each, I can even up brightness by switching on or off an eq pedal patch by patch, but this isn't ideal mid song with patch changes. The global eq would be perfect.

I've done a couple of gigs since I first posted the question, and have been very happy with muting path B and winding up the DT25 master a bit, I also brought preamp volumes down a touch and it's definately warmer and tougher sounding overall.

talwilkins, are you sure lower preamp channels affect tone and not just volume? I haven't A/B ear tested it much yet to really hear it. I just know I get very pleasing sounds when the amps up past 12 oclock.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by adamhartley on 2013-04-14 22:36:56

Just to clarify, the eq pedal referred to above is a model within the HD, and the question about lower preamp channels should have read lower preamp volume via it's knob on the HD or DT.



Re: Muting hd500's path B in mixer for more DT25 power amp volume.
by talwilkins on 2013-04-15 08:41:27

I must admit I don't know if a low channel volume really affect the tone but I have read about it in these forums from respectable contributers.

It would seem that having the channel volume relly low, say 25% does affect the tone somewhat. In any case I do beleive that some effects would affect the tone in a different way if the signal level is quite low. This would mean that when you attenuate with the amp channel or in the mixer, everything after that in the chain will heve a lower level to work with. In my setup the level only gets attenuated at the end of the chain.




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